Torn between FA WRs Mike Wallace and Brandon Lloyd...

[zipster9]

IF Wallace can't master the system his age is irrelevant Brady won't throw him the ball.

The Pitts system is very simple a lot of their big plays are off broken plays with BR scrambling around.

The NE system requires the receiver to make a call from up to 5 routes at the line. Lloyd has already shown he can excel in the offense. WE have no idea if Wallace would be successful or if he will be J Galloway/Ocho.

Or he could learn as fast as Welker, and Gaffney, did..

 

[MSU]

I'm not. Either of them are better than Wes Butterfingers at this point. Ill take 'ema both over that two time Superbowl loser.

 

[robbomango]

..............:trolls:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Er, No.

Lloyd is 31yrs old. Wallace is 26yrs old. Advantage: Wallace

Both are 6'0".

Wallace is faster than Lloyd. They say you can't coach speed, and that's been true here

Lloyd is a "me me" person. Ala, Moss. Says who?

Yes, Patriots would have to fork over 31st pick. But, you are getting a legit WR...Lloyd is legit, too

Big problem is that Patriots will get outbid by either Bengals, Ravens, 49ers, or Browns.

After what Ed Bouchette said on PFT I went and looked at his 2011 game stats and he dropped off like a rock after week 8... If he was injured Bouchette would have noted that, he's the Gazette's beat guy. So like he said, that's a potential concern.

With Welker and the 2 TE's (who will have to be extended in the next year or two) we don't need a #1 WR, nor can we afford the luxury of one. What we need is a 2nd WR or 3rd or 4th receiving option who can run all the routes so he provides additional cushion against injury and stretch the field horizontally and/or vertically. Lloyd is ideal if they can get him for little more than what they paid Welker on average the last 5 years (while giving Welker about what they were giving Moss to play along side him...). $13M per for the pair. And their deals will be incremental by design because of their age. Flexibility, something this FO relishes.

Wallace would likely be looking for a 5-6 year deal in the $9-$10M vacinity. If he didn't pan out, that would represent a cap and draft capital disaster.

 

[supafly]

After what Ed Bouchette said on PFT I went and looked at his 2011 game stats and he dropped off like a rock after week 8... If he was injured Bouchette would have noted that, he's the Gazette's beat guy. So like he said, that's a potential concern.

With Welker and the 2 TE's (who will have to be extended in the next year or two) we don't need a #1 WR, nor can we afford the luxury of one. What we need is a 2nd WR or 3rd or 4th receiving option who can run all the routes so he provides additional cushion against injury and stretch the field horizontally and/or vertically. Lloyd is ideal if they can get him for little more than what they paid Welker on average the last 5 years (while giving Welker about what they were giving Moss to play along side him...). $13M per for the pair. And their deals will be incremental by design because of their age. Flexibility, something this FO relishes.

Wallace would likely be looking for a 5-6 year deal in the $9-$10M vacinity. If he didn't pan out, that would represent a cap and draft capital disaster.

Unfortunately, I am stuck reading Bouchette's columns everyday so I am familiar with his thoughts on the situation.

I have the same concerns as you do regarding Wallace. We all know that he poses a problem for the defense, and is likely the quickest WR in the game. What we still don't know is his ceiling, and whether or not he can become an 'elite' WR.

I have major concerns taking Wallace, due to the fact that there would be a question of exactly how much to pay him. I don't see either one of the Pats or Steelers offering him money in the 9-10 million range...at least not YET.

I would have no problem giving him about 7 million per, but common sense would probably say that he would want more money.

IMO--he has not proven himself due quite that much money. 9-10 million is the upper echelon of 'top tiered WR' money, and as of now, you just can't make that kind of deal for Mike Wallace.

As far as his dropoff last yr, yes--it was one of the first things that I thought of when these threads and reports started. Some of that may have been due to Roethlisberger's injury, while some may also have been to the development and emergence of Antonio Brown too.

Bottom line--I don't think either one of the teams in question is willing to take that risk (I am assuming of course) as of this spring. It would likely take one more solid and consistant year for him to demand anything close to 9-10 million per year. However, we've all seen other teams make mistakes and take those risks before when it comes to these kind of situations, so the potential is certainly there for a team well under the cap to possibly give him that kind of deal.

 

[fnordcircle]

You take your 26 year old. I'll take the 31 year old AND the 22 year old.

I agree 100%.

Wait, we're talking about women, right?

 

[supafly]

After what Ed Bouchette said on PFT I went and looked at his 2011 game stats and he dropped off like a rock after week 8... If he was injured Bouchette would have noted that, he's the Gazette's beat guy. So like he said, that's a potential concern.

With Welker and the 2 TE's (who will have to be extended in the next year or two) we don't need a #1 WR, nor can we afford the luxury of one. What we need is a 2nd WR or 3rd or 4th receiving option who can run all the routes so he provides additional cushion against injury and stretch the field horizontally and/or vertically. Lloyd is ideal if they can get him for little more than what they paid Welker on average the last 5 years (while giving Welker about what they were giving Moss to play along side him...). $13M per for the pair. And their deals will be incremental by design because of their age. Flexibility, something this FO relishes.

Wallace would likely be looking for a 5-6 year deal in the $9-$10M vacinity. If he didn't pan out, that would represent a cap and draft capital disaster.

I think potential WR's like Wayne, Lloyd, Colston etc are much more realistic and cost effective. As you said, the 2 TE's need to be on the back burner at this point in time, and Welker is still the #1 priority.

All of the above WR's should command money a lot closer to what the NEP would be willing to pay than a guy like Wallace, and there's still the fact that he is somewhat of an 'unknown' at certain aspects of the game still.

 

[Joker]

I agree 100%.

Wait, we're talking about women, right?

 

[zipster9]

After what Ed Bouchette said on PFT I went and looked at his 2011 game stats and he dropped off like a rock after week 8... If he was injured Bouchette would have noted that, he's the Gazette's beat guy. So like he said, that's a potential concern.

With Welker and the 2 TE's (who will have to be extended in the next year or two) we don't need a #1 WR, nor can we afford the luxury of one. What we need is a 2nd WR or 3rd or 4th receiving option who can run all the routes so he provides additional cushion against injury and stretch the field horizontally and/or vertically. Lloyd is ideal if they can get him for little more than what they paid Welker on average the last 5 years (while giving Welker about what they were giving Moss to play along side him...). $13M per for the pair. And their deals will be incremental by design because of their age. Flexibility, something this FO relishes.

Wallace would likely be looking for a 5-6 year deal in the $9-$10M vacinity. If he didn't pan out, that would represent a cap and draft capital disaster.

Wallace: 1 team

Career StatisticsSeason Team Games Receiving Rushing Fumbles
GP GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2011 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 13 71 1,182 16.6 95T 8 5 57 11.4 21 0 1 1
2010 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 60 1,257 21.0 56T 10 5 39 7.8 19 0 1 0
2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 4 39 756 19.4 60T 6 5 48 9.6 21 0 1 1
Total 47 33 170 3,195 18.8 95 24 15 144 9.6 21 0 3 2




Lloyd: 5 teams (49ers traded him, WAS released him, Bears 1yr deal, DEN traded him)

Career StatsYear Team G GS Rec Yards AVG LG TD
2003 SF 16 1 14 212 15.1 44 2
2004 SF 13 13 43 565 13.1 52 6
2005 SF 16 15 48 733 15.3 89 5
2006 WAS 15 12 23 365 15.9 52 0
2007 WAS 8 1 2 14 7.0 9 0
2008 CHI 11 5 26 364 14.0 32 2
2009 DEN 2 1 8 117 14.6 44 0
2010 DEN 16 11 77 1,448 18.8 71 11
2011 DEN 4 4 19 283 14.9 44 0
2011 STL 6 6 31 396 12.8 34 4
Tot. N/A 111 63 260 4,101 15.8 89 26

 

[Snake Eyes]

You forgot, that AGE is a major factor, especially as a WR. Lloyd is 31. Wallace will be 26. That's a 5 yr difference. Who do you want to give a 4/5 yr deal?

- Who says we need to give him a 4/5 yr deal?

- Age is a bigger factor for some WRs more than others. If they rely on blazing speed like Moss getting old is a very big problem, OTOH Burress didnt look very downgraded this year even though he had a garbage QB throwing to him.

- Lloyd was never a blazer and doesnt rely on his speed.

- He's can also play in this offense, all the physical ability on the world won't help if they can't get in sync with TFB, let's learn from the Ocho mistake.

 

[BPF]

I like Wallace, I liked him coming out of college but what worries me is his 2nd half of this past season. He led the Steelers with 1,193 yds receiving but only 395 of those came during the final eight games where he struggled with drops. In the playoffs vs Denver he had 10 balls thrown his way and ended up with 3 catches for 26 yds including a drop that would have gone for a 1st down. Their MVP on offense was Antonio Brown last yr. Wallace is explosive and a burner with 4.28 speed, he's also developed in his route running since college but why the struggles last yr in the 2nd half. He had almost as many yds in the 1st 3 games last yr with 377 as he did in the final 8 with 395.

I have no doubt Lloyd would fit in nicely but Wallace's talent is immense and it seems he's just scratched the surface.

 

[BPF]

- Who says we need to give him a 4/5 yr deal?

- Age is a bigger factor for some WRs more than others. If they rely on blazing speed like Moss getting old is a very big problem, OTOH Burress didnt look very downgraded this year even though he had a garbage QB throwing to him.

- Lloyd was never a blazer and doesnt rely on his speed.

- He's can also play in this offense, all the physical ability on the world won't help if they can't get in sync with TFB, let's learn from the Ocho mistake.

Chad Johnson is not what he once was physically.

 

[patsfan13]

Chad Johnson is not what he once was physically.

Chad didn't see many balls because he couldn't execute what THIS O demands.

The issues weren't physical.

 

[patfanken]

Assuming the Pats sign Welker. Does it make any sense to give up a #1 pick PLUS a high end WR contract to add your #4 option? So if Welker is here, then Wallace won't be. The same can be said of adding Lloyd only to a lesser degree. Is it worth paying Lloyd $8MM/yr to be our #4 receiving target. He might be worth $5-6MM/yr, and I don't think that is going to happen.

Face it, none of the Wallace, Lloyd, or Jackson scenario's make cap sense if Welker is resigned. You just can't tie up 18-20% of your cap space in 2 WRs. Its something BB hasn't done in the past, and won't do here.

Now that doesn't mean that the Pats won't pursue a "field stretching" WR, just not one who will need a max contract to come here.

Of course that all changes if the Pats determine that can get more value out of the WRs corps by letting Edelman assume Welker's role and going out and paying top dollar to a LLoyd., Wallace, or Jackson.

 

[celticboy04]

Greetings,
I would take Wallace over LLoyd in a heartbeat. The only advantage I see Lloyd having over Wallace is he has played in this style of offense before.

Celticboy04

 

[Sciz]

Greetings,
I would take Wallace over LLoyd in a heartbeat. The only advantage I see Lloyd having over Wallace is he has played in this style of offense before.

Celticboy04

Cheaper
Wouldn't cost a first round pick

 

[patsfan13]

Greetings,
I would take Wallace over LLoyd in a heartbeat. The only advantage I see Lloyd having over Wallace is he has played in this style of offense before.

Celticboy04

Given the number of WR who were unable to play in our system, what make you sure Wallace can?

Because IF you were going to give up a #1 pick plus ~$9M you will habe to be sure he will excel in THIS system........

It would be a stretch to sign Welker and Lloyd, but IF you sign Wallace bye bye Welker....

 

[patsfan13]

Assuming the Pats sign Welker. The same can be said of adding Lloyd only to a lesser degree. Is it worth paying Lloyd $8MM/yr to be our #4 receiving target. He might be worth $5-6MM/yr, and I don't think that is going to happen.

What makes you thin Lloyd would necessarily be the #4 target, HE and Gronk might be 2A & 2B with AH #4......we just don't know how a different mix of targets would work out.

Face it, none of the Wallace, Lloyd, or Jackson scenario's make cap sense if Welker is resigned. You just can't tie up 18-20% of your cap space in 2 WRs. Its something BB hasn't done in the past, and won't do here.

Signing a Lloyd and Welker would be a stretch, but I would think the contract could be structured to make it doable. Cutting Ocho for example frees up some cap space for the WR slot and Branch will not command as much as last year.

 

[thodoks]

Greetings,
I would take Wallace over LLoyd in a heartbeat. The only advantage I see Lloyd having over Wallace is he has played in this style of offense before.

Celticboy04

Why do you sign your posts? We can all see your handle, bro.

 

[MP-Logick]

I like Wallace, I liked him coming out of college but what worries me is his 2nd half of this past season. He led the Steelers with 1,193 yds receiving but only 395 of those came during the final eight games where he struggled with drops. In the playoffs vs Denver he had 10 balls thrown his way and ended up with 3 catches for 26 yds including a drop that would have gone for a 1st down. Their MVP on offense was Antonio Brown last yr. Wallace is explosive and a burner with 4.28 speed, he's also developed in his route running since college but why the struggles last yr in the 2nd half. He had almost as many yds in the 1st 3 games last yr with 377 as he did in the final 8 with 395.

I have no doubt Lloyd would fit in nicely but Wallace's talent is immense and it seems he's just scratched the surface.

I think a lot of the drop in Wallace's production over the second half of last year can be attributed to Big Ben's injury and the limited mobility that the result of it.