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Good thing he's not a starting wide receiver, then. He's the #3 receiver in a 2WR offense.
10 starts on the season, and 8 of the 10 starts came after Moss was traded.
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.Good thing he's not a starting wide receiver, then. He's the #3 receiver in a 2WR offense.
1.) It wasn't Tate's first season
2.) The reality is that Maineman is comparing Tate to an earlier bust. Beating out Bethel Johnson is not exactly a tremendous accomplishment.
3.) Tate had only 24 catches, even with Moss getting traded away. As a matter of fact, he had 11 of his 24 catches in the 4 games that Moss played for the Patriots, and both 4 catch games he had were in the first 4 weeks of the season. Essentially, once Moss was gone, Tate became a 1 catch per game player. That sucks for a starting wide receiver.
4.) His success track in the return game followed a similar path.
Tate was on the field for just under half the snaps last season. That is less than Welker, Branch, Gronkowski, and Crumpler. He played 16 more snaps than Hernandez in two more games. Had Hernandez stayed healthy, then Tate more than likely would have been on the field 6th most of the WRs and TEs. For every purpose other than the official "starts" stat, that makes him not a starter.10 starts on the season, and 8 of the 10 starts came after Moss was traded.
Tate tore both his ACL and MCL in October 2008. He started the 2009 season for the Pats on the PUP, played in 1 game at the end of October, re-injured his knee and went to IR. To say that represents a "first season" is being pretty technical, doncha think?
I was comparing Tate to WR/KRs that Pats had drafted previously. OTOH, what follows are the rookie seasons of some "starting WRs" who haven't done too poorly since (none of whom were drafted as primarily a KR, AFAIK):
YEAR -- Pk# - PLAYER -----------GAMES -- REC/YDS - TDs - Catch Rate
2003 -- 3 -- Andre Johnson ----- 16 gms - 66/976 - 4 TDs - 55%
2004 -- 3 -- Larry Fitzgerald ---- 16 gms - 58/780 - 8 TDs - 51%
2005 -- 27 -- Roddy White ------ 16 gms - 29/446 - 3 TDs - 43%
2010 -- 83 -- Brandon Tate ------ 16 gms - 24/432 - 3 TDs - 52%
2001 -- 30 -- Reggie Wayne ------ 13 gms - 27/345 - 0 TDs - 55%
2001 -- 36 -- Chad Ochocinco ---- 12 gms - 28/329 - 1 TD -- 47%
2005 - 119 -- Brandon Marshall --- 15 gms - 20/309 - 2 TDs - unk
1997 -- 98 -- Derrick Mason ------ 16 gms - 14/186 - 0 TDs - 47%
2001 -- 74 -- Steve Smith (CAR) -- 15 gms - 10/154 - 0 TDs - 50%
2007 -- 51 -- Steve Smith (NYG) -- 5 gms -- 8/63 -- 0 TDs - 57%
2010 -- 90 -- Taylor Price --------- 1 gm --- 3/41 -- 0 TDs - unk
2001 -- 16 -- Santana Moss ------- 5 gms -- 2/40 -- 0 TDs - 12%
"Starting WR"? When did THAT happen? AFAIK, he was the KR and #5 WR (and even further down the list of pass-catching targets if you include Hernandez and Gronkowski). Essentially, once Branch came on board and started sucking up so many targets, Tate became a 1 catch/game player.
Coincidentally, after week 4, teams started kicking away from Tate. In the first four weeks, Tate touched nearly 100% of kickoffs. After that, he only touched about 50%. The result of those avoidance kickoffs was an average FP beyond the 30 - the result of 3 OB KOs and numerous returns by the up-men, including Connolly's majestic scamper.
The entire point of my post was that Tate should be compared to other WRs who were drafted as KRs, NOT to Randy Moss or any other "starting WR", which Tate clearly is not - YET. To think so, or to expect so, seems a bit unreasonable to me, that's all.
Tate was on the field for just under half the snaps last season. That is less than Welker, Branch, Gronkowski, and Crumpler. He played 16 more snaps than Hernandez in two more games. Had Hernandez stayed healthy, then Tate more than likely would have been on the field 6th most of the WRs and TEs. For every purpose other than the official "starts" stat, that makes him not a starter.
I'm with Deus - you can't call Tate's first season a red-shirt. He came off PUP and played plenty in his first game against Tampa - they viewed him as ready to go. Granted, the need was high, but the fact was even at that point, the team viewed him as a legitimate option to get plenty of receiver reps. He had learned the system enough to that point.
Tate and Brady seemed to have a solid chemistry during training camp, I don't know why that didn't translate to the field in the season.
Either way, to bank on Tate going into next season - whether you call his first season a redshirt or not - is not wise. He and Price are both question marks. I think realistically, one of them turns into a viable option. But you can't bank on it.
O.K. I don't get it. Are you saying pick the one who rots the least? I was not a Bethel fan although he was faster than Tate. Tate was chosen because of his return skills add to what he could do at WR. He is fine for a #5 WR.
In three years at NC and injured one of those, Tate stats show:
46 receptions 927 Yards 8 TDS
Not earth shattering. His biggest season at UNC he had only 25 catches.
In three years at Texas A&M and ironically injured one of those, Johnson's stats are:
90 receptions 1226 Yards 8 TDS
Johnson was bigger at 5'11" and 200 lbs and faster at a 4.2 40.
Versus Tate who is a shade under 6' and 190 lbs and a speed of 4.41 40.
By the way. Here is a shock. Woodhead is faster than Tate. Danny ran a 4.33.
At the end of the day Cousin, Johnson had double the catches of Tate in college.
I reiterate, Tate was an average WR at UNC. He was known for his return prowess. He is what he is. He is a fine #5 WR option. Forcing him into the #3 option was not as successful as hoped.
In an non-perfect world, there are two or three options to upgrade our passing attack in 2011. TB can not wait for years while some of these kids ....."Get it"....The window gets smaller. I say in my humble opinion that there are a few choices that will help TB now.
I want to start with Branch and what to do. He is NOT a true #1 WR and is more effective as a #2 and Welker as the slot man. We still need a taller WR who can draw coverage from that Safety's side of the field. That guy is NOT Tate. He is easily covered by a single mediocre NFL caliber CB at this point.
My options would be of course Fitzgerald above any to win right now. Others could be Sidney Rice who is a great talent but has been dinged and could still cost bucks, Steve Smith who isn't that big either but could easily play #1 WR if you can spring him from Carolina where he wants out, Santana Moss who is a FA, still smaller but could play #1 and had 93 receptions and 6 TDs for the complete chaos of the Redskins passing attack, or...... I like Chad Johnson with 67 catches, with as miserable of an offense as the Redskins with the Bengals, who is 6'1" and has great route running ability and cannot be handled by a one on one DB.......and he wants to play for BB. Is he a bad person? No. Chad is a fun guy who would have to tone it down(see Wes Welker) and if he can co-exist with T.O. taking his catches, he is not going to feel he needs to get into TB's ears every down. He wants to prove to BB that he is a winner here which is the chip you saw when Moss got here.
It forces the best cover CB from the other Team like Revis to cover one of these guys who is the #1 and creates openings for Branch who proved he cannot get open as much as we all hoped as the #1. All these options above can stretch the field. Reiss likes Steve Smith. He and Johnson are both passionate about the game which BB loves to see.
I think Branch had his game taken away with the injuries and his Seattle journey (nice job Mr. Agent). He is still capable of production in spots but he was still dinged even here last year. He cannot take the beating anymore. I think at the least, Santana Moss and Chad Johnson are more durable.
Now let us consider if we wait on Tate, or pick yet another WR in the Draft and wait on him? Do we hope that Price is ready? Our latest WR picks have been awfully slow to develop. Or...... do we take a legitimate #1 WR option by Trade or FA that can play right now and produce to go out and win the SB this coming year. I want to win right now while TB is still the man.
I like some of the WR in the Draft but after the first few, as you all say......no thanks(is that it? As if we are the chosen chooser). I would leave the Draft picks to upgrade other areas of concern that can develop faster than a Pats drafted WR is able to do. As Terry Holt said in his interview and he saw both Price and Tate, we need possibly two WR in 2011 and his reference was veterans for Tom to trust.
As a fall back, why not Donte Stallworth? As a part time starter here for one year he did have 46 receptions. Then he got dinged and could not get back to starter. Gaffney had an excellent last half of the season.
Stallworth is healthy now. He is a deep threat. He should be cheap. He knows the system and the area. In nine games he caught 46 passes as the #3 WR. In ten games Tate caught 24. In college Stallworth was over 1,700 yards in receptions and his best TD year was 10 with 3 games out for a broken wrist. He is listed at 6'1" and has run a 4.29 40.
DW Toys
Yes, if you take away the fact that he was a starter, then he wasn't a starter. However, since he was, in fact, a starter, that argument fails. If you take away the games that Brady has started in his career, he's not a starter, either. That applies to every player who's ever started a game. This is not a case of a 1-down defensive player who happens to get on the field only on first down. He was starting and playing in about half the offensive snaps.
In Tate's case, he started in 1/2 of the team's games when Moss was on the squad, and 2/3 of the team's games after Moss left. In other words, he had a higher percentage of starts post-Moss. It's a small sample size, but the numbers are there. Adjustments after the start of the games are impacted by how the games play out. Tate had his chance, game after game, to earn more snaps. He failed to do so, in the eye of the team.
The bolded part is really the key, IMO. It's not that there's no chance that Tate (or Price) will break out next season. It's that the team shouldn't rely on it, especially with the injury history of Branch, because failure means another Brady season wasted.
The bolded part is really the key, IMO. It's not that there's no chance that Tate (or Price) will break out next season. It's that the team shouldn't rely on it, especially with the injury history of Branch, because failure means another Brady season wasted.
We go through this same exercise every year.
Can you spell out a depth chart for 2011 that you believe is beyond criticism?
We go through this same exercise every year. Can you spell out a depth chart for 2011 that you believe is beyond criticism? Bear in mind:
a) 3 WRs get the vast majority of snaps in games and practice
b) The 4th WR gets sporadic action
c) The 5th WR begs for scraps
d) Anyone lower on the depth chart should rent, not buy...but will save money on uniform cleaning bills
The current depth chart has Welker, Branch, Tate, Edelperson and Price. If you want to move any of them lower, you might as well trade/cut them. Veterans don't react well to this and youngsters are either movin' up or movin' out.
I'm not against upgrading this group. I just think it is silly when some people (not necessarily you) want a WR depth chart that goes 7-8 deep with 4-5 reliable veterans or top draft picks.
I'm with Deus - you can't call Tate's first season a red-shirt. He came off PUP and played plenty in his first game against Tampa - they viewed him as ready to go. Granted, the need was high, but the fact was even at that point, the team viewed him as a legitimate option to get plenty of receiver reps. He had learned the system enough to that point.
Tate and Brady seemed to have a solid chemistry during training camp, I don't know why that didn't translate to the field in the season.
Either way, to bank on Tate going into next season - whether you call his first season a redshirt or not - is not wise. He and Price are both question marks. I think realistically, one of them turns into a viable option. But you can't bank on it.