OT: SI covers Roethlisberger's rampant and unrelenting douchebaggery

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I know this wont make me popular, but I do believe people are innocent until proven not so. I think the media trys to make us believe bad about people for profit, and gives leeway to people they consider good, who deals with them.

I do remember a poor soul in Delaware, that was branded by the media as a serial killer, and the police eventually convicted this man, I think he spent 20 or more years in prison before they found their was no way he could have done the crime.

Roethlisberger's seems guilty, but I just don't think thats for me to decide.
I fight it because I think he is in my heart and with all the evidence, and its happened a few times, but thats why we have the courts and as shown above they dont always work.

I think the prosecutor releasing this info was an intentional way to make him look bad, and that was wrong, and I don't know maybe he is a bad person.

I wish one of these women would have the courage to prosecute so we can end it, and I know it takes allot of courage to do that. I also hope , if true, these women can go on and be happy in there lives knowing they did not go forward. It would be a horrible thing to live with being a young woman.

This is how I intitially felt but it eventually becomes like OJ Simpson. Too much evidence. IMO I have heard enough to strip him of the NFL uniform.

Innocent until guilty is legal terminology. If you witness one guy shoot another, is he innocent until he goes throught the legal system? No, he just shot a guy.

I no longer consider Ben as anything other than a scumbag. The letter of the law may disagree.

 

[Joker]

I do agree that tall men tend to be more comfortable with themselves and a little more confident. However, these types of men wouldn't refer to that as manliness, and wouldn't associate "Big Ben's" behavior with that of short guys. There is another, more rare type of "big man" that believes he is manly because he is big, and associates negative behavior, even when exhibited by the tall, with the small. This is the type of guy who has do be the dominant person in a room and be aknowledged as such. The type of guy who's behavior is much more in-line with "Big Ben's". This confidence, and much more rare feeling of entitlement, exhibited in tall men isn't gentic or some inherent characteristic of being tall. It's learned. We treat "big kids" different than we treat small ones, and that difference in treatment continues through adulthood. It's called heightism, and although heightism affects us all to varying degrees, it's affect on you is unusually high.

Nice try, but you swung and missed. I worked the door at Lupo's Heartbreak Hotel from the 80's into the 90's, and had first hand eyewitness account of many disturbances.I was hardly confident and certainly didn't feel entitled.As I stated, from my own PERSONAL observations, which certainly aren't any kind of scientific data,the bulk of disturbances in club involved guys of shorter stature. I collected at the door on Fridays and Saturdays, and always wore body armor. I had knives, bat handles, all kinds of guns and even a damn sawed off shotgun pulled on me while I was unarmed. I can tell you this with 100% certainty,"heightism" certainly never came into play.Beyond that, however, is the fact that YOU seem angry that I described Big Ben as a little punk trapped in a big man's body. It's a euphemism,Dr. Sigmund Fraud.I have a degree from B.U. in engineering, played in a band of some renown in R.I.(the Young Adults) and experienced a couple of decades of rock venue behavior not only at Lupo's but all over N.E., N.Y.C. and down the East Coast.I tell you this..when a guy about 5'8" walks up to the door where you're collecting the cover and says to you "hey man, what do you think of THIS?" and displays a sawed off shotgun under his coat, you tend to remember those things..as well as the night when an underaged 19 year old about 5'10" knocks out a doorman cold, with his eyes still open(ever seen or heard of THAT) and punched and kicked other employees, even **** Lupo himself. Did I feel entitled THAT night??...no, I called the Providence police and a cop removed the guy at gunpoint from a crowded,over 800 people rock club. If I had "heightism" as you so certainly asserted, I would have been on the floor with the 6'6"" bouncer, staring at the ceiling tiles with little birdies in my head.

 

[upstater1]

I do agree that tall men tend to be more comfortable with themselves and a little more confident. However, these types of men wouldn't refer to that as manliness, and wouldn't associate "Big Ben's" behavior with that of short guys. There is another, more rare type of "big man" that believes he is manly because he is big, and associates negative behavior, even when exhibited by the tall, with the small. This is the type of guy who has do be the dominant person in a room and be aknowledged as such. The type of guy who's behavior is much more in-line with "Big Ben's". This confidence, and much more rare feeling of entitlement, exhibited in tall men isn't gentic or some inherent characteristic of being tall. It's learned. We treat "big kids" different than we treat small ones, and that difference in treatment continues through adulthood. It's called heightism, and although heightism affects us all to varying degrees, it's affect on you is unusually high.

Nice try, but you swung and missed. I worked the door at Lupo's Heartbreak Hotel from the 80's into the 90's, and had first hand eyewitness account of many disturbances.I was hardly confident and certainly didn't feel entitled.As I stated, from my own PERSONAL observations, which certainly aren't any kind of scientific data,the bulk of disturbances in club involved guys of shorter stature. I collected at the door on Fridays and Saturdays, and always wore body armor. I had knives, bat handles, all kinds of guns and even a damn sawed off shotgun pulled on me while I was unarmed. I can tell you this with 100% certainty,"heightism" certainly never came into play.Beyond that, however, is the fact that YOU seem angry that I described Big Ben as a little punk trapped in a big man's body. It's a euphemism,Dr. Sigmund Fraud.I have a degree from B.U. in engineering, played in a band of some renown in R.I.(the Young Adults) and experienced a couple of decades of rock venue behavior not only at Lupo's but all over N.E., N.Y.C. and down the East Coast.I tell you this..when a guy about 5'8" walks up to the door where you're collecting the cover and says to you "hey man, what do you think of THIS?" and displays a sawed off shotgun under his coat, you tend to remember those things..as well as the night when an underaged 19 year old about 5'10" knocks out a doorman cold, with his eyes still open(ever seen or heard of THAT) and punched and kicked other employees, even **** Lupo himself. Did I feel entitled THAT night??...no, I called the Providence police and a cop removed the guy at gunpoint from a crowded,over 800 people rock club. If I had "heightism" as you so certainly asserted, I would have been on the floor with the 6'6"" bouncer, staring at the ceiling tiles with little birdies in my head.

We may have run itno one another at some point, I'm a grad of BU '90 and lived in providence for a couple of years. I liked Lupo's quite bit, and got to see some of my favorite bands growing up, as well as newer bands that were pretty good too. Providence was a good place for music in the 80s. I left Lupo's once after a show and ducked into a place called Club Babyhead, which I never visited again, and heard a voice that sounded very familiar. The band was called Klover, and sure enough, it was the remaining members of Gang Green. Providence always surprised me like that. Don't know if Lupo's is still around but that was a good venue. Saw the band X there last.

 

[Joker]

here's a pic of me and Calvin and Big Al...Lupo's circa 1990...that's me on the right...much thinner and less grey...sigh]

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I do agree that tall men tend to be more comfortable with themselves and a little more confident. However, these types of men wouldn't refer to that as manliness, and wouldn't associate "Big Ben's" behavior with that of short guys. There is another, more rare type of "big man" that believes he is manly because he is big, and associates negative behavior, even when exhibited by the tall, with the small. This is the type of guy who has do be the dominant person in a room and be aknowledged as such. The type of guy who's behavior is much more in-line with "Big Ben's". This confidence, and much more rare feeling of entitlement, exhibited in tall men isn't gentic or some inherent characteristic of being tall. It's learned. We treat "big kids" different than we treat small ones, and that difference in treatment continues through adulthood. It's called heightism, and although heightism affects us all to varying degrees, it's affect on you is unusually high.

Nice try, but you swung and missed. I worked the door at Lupo's Heartbreak Hotel from the 80's into the 90's, and had first hand eyewitness account of many disturbances.I was hardly confident and certainly didn't feel entitled.As I stated, from my own PERSONAL observations, which certainly aren't any kind of scientific data,the bulk of disturbances in club involved guys of shorter stature. I collected at the door on Fridays and Saturdays, and always wore body armor. I had knives, bat handles, all kinds of guns and even a damn sawed off shotgun pulled on me while I was unarmed. I can tell you this with 100% certainty,"heightism" certainly never came into play.Beyond that, however, is the fact that YOU seem angry that I described Big Ben as a little punk trapped in a big man's body. It's a euphemism,Dr. Sigmund Fraud.I have a degree from B.U. in engineering, played in a band of some renown in R.I.(the Young Adults) and experienced a couple of decades of rock venue behavior not only at Lupo's but all over N.E., N.Y.C. and down the East Coast.I tell you this..when a guy about 5'8" walks up to the door where you're collecting the cover and says to you "hey man, what do you think of THIS?" and displays a sawed off shotgun under his coat, you tend to remember those things..as well as the night when an underaged 19 year old about 5'10" knocks out a doorman cold, with his eyes still open(ever seen or heard of THAT) and punched and kicked other employees, even **** Lupo himself. Did I feel entitled THAT night??...no, I called the Providence police and a cop removed the guy at gunpoint from a crowded,over 800 people rock club. If I had "heightism" as you so certainly asserted, I would have been on the floor with the 6'6"" bouncer, staring at the ceiling tiles with little birdies in my head.

I'm not angry, just a stickler for accuracy. Your own experiences are perceived through tinted glass (as are everyone's to some degree or another), and isolated to the club scene. Did you even read the link? It's pretty interesting stuff. Your analysis of shorter people being more aggressive certainly isn't supported by crime statistics.

What's funny is that I never thought height made much of a difference, but I'd never really thought about it. A few people had told me it was still a huge factor, but I more or less brushed it off. I then read an article about the common characteristics of CEOs for big companies. I'd assumed race would be the biggest defining characteristic (and so did the folks who did the study). Boy was I wrong. At that time, there was only ONE CEO in the fortune 500 companies that was shorter than 5'8". That is one fifth of one percent, when 5'8" is the average height of an adult male in the US. With your engineering background, I'm sure you can appreciate that statistic. I didn't take just one article's word for it though, I did some research and learned about it. My opinion changed.

To be honest, it was pretty eye opening for me since I rarely notice someone's height, unless it's to one extreme or the other. After learning about heightism, and paying attention to it in social situations, I noticed that tall people do tend to gain a greater level of respect in proportion to their ability and accomplishments, not just from other people, but from me as well. That last discovery was particularly disturbing. That all said, this treatment does tend to be very helpful to the self esteem and self opinion of the tall. Except for a couple of crappy things like clothes, cars and furniture being made for smaller people, being tall is overwhelmingly positive.

I stand by my assessment. Generally people say what they really mean, and your first post spoke volumes.

 

[Joker]

well, not to be snide or flippant, but if that post "spoke volumes", maybe you should apply for Kreskin's recently vacated throne as the world's best psychic.

 

[Clonamery]

well, not to be snide or flippant, but if that post "spoke volumes", maybe you should apply for Kreskin's recently vacated throne as the world's best psychic.

I love when people say, "well, not to be...." and then they go ahead and act or say exactly what they say they were "not to be." Funny and Kreskin-like.

 

[Joker]

uh..yeah, I meant it to be flippant...you catch on quick though...next, as far as this jihad goes, I suggest the two of you revisit "Man of LaMancha"...one of you can play the Don and the other can play the windmill..

 

[NEGoldenAge]

uh..yeah, I meant it to be flippant...you catch on quick though...next, as far as this jihad goes, I suggest the two of you revisit "Man of LaMancha"...one of you can play the Don and the other can play the windmill..

Can I be the windmill?

 

[Clonamery]

uh..yeah, I meant it to be flippant...you catch on quick though...next, as far as this jihad goes, I suggest the two of you revisit "Man of LaMancha"...one of you can play the Don and the other can play the windmill..

I am too short so I would have to be Sancho Panza. I guess that leaves you as the hero.

 

[Joker]

Nah...I'm Rhett Butler....and frankly my dears..I don't give a damn

 

[efin98]

How was he flaunting it to the media? It was either a pure coincidence that they saw him on the bike or they were following him. I'm sure he didn't get on his bike that morning and say, "LET THEM SEE ME NOW. MUAHAHAHAHA!".

So the fact that he is riding around the town on a motorcycle likely during the preseason or season itself without a helmet gets ignored because you think the media were following him around?

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Nah...I'm Rhett Butler....and frankly my dears..I don't give a damn

LOVE that movie!

 

[spacecrime]

I know this wont make me popular, but I do believe people are innocent until proven not so.

In a court of law, yes, where you must PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. Lacking actual proof does not mean the person didn't do it, only that there wasn't enough proof. I believe it is a good system, erring on the proper side (worse to send innocent people to jail than to not to confine guilty people).

But if someone you knew beat you up and stole your cash, but you couldn't prove it in court, would you go around telling people he never did it? Or would you say he did it but you couldn't prove it?

AFAIK, there is no innocence in court. People are found guilty or not guilty.

Outside of the legal system, innocence is a state of being that does not change based on legal review. You can be found guilty in court and be innocent of the crime, and you be found not guilty and be guilty.

Being innocent is not the same as not being charged due to lack of evidence.

You can look at his history and what you know and say that since he has yet to be found guilty in a court of law, as far as you are concerned he has the same moral character as Tedy Bruschi if you want.

I say he is a scumbag.

I think it is a terrible thing to get someone fired. Bad of the boss for firing a guy who just did his job, but bad of Roethlisberger to go through the effort to get a guy fired because he was annoyed that the guy did his job and did not worship Roethlisberger's feet.

 

[Pewsterbaby]

"People like him deserve cancer of the aids of the face"? lol. He DOES have cancer of the aids of the face. Look how damned ugly he is. There's enough cartilage on that nose for about three, beady deep set eyes, and a mole. That looks like cancer of the aids of the face if I've ever seen it.

And people wonder why he's a jerk to women. Conditioning, baby, conditioning. Anger over past rejections, that's why.

 

[Bostonian1962]

He's a complete low life. What a freakin' jerk at every level. There are alleged rapists. There are pompous jerks. There are idiots who bail on bills at various establishments. There are athletes that don't show up for charity events. There are even players who can be described as the last to show up for practice and the first to leave. However, I can never, ever remember a case where one person was all of the above.

He is no doubt my least favorite athlete in any sport.

EDIT: P.S. - I wonder if a player with this lack of ethics and morals, who supposedly thinks he's better than everybody, and could even be a bonafide predator, can ever change. Really, he might be able to lie, and smile, and say he's a new person. However, he is what he is IMHO. I'm sure he smiled and acted sincere when he said he'd never again go without a helmet.

 

[Fencer]

Celebrities like Ben R. have the right to be jerks in SMALL ways. (When the press and public hound you, sometimes you have to push back. Or be demanding so as to get some space.)

Given that, and the temptations, it is perhaps a forgivable error to be a jerk in BIG ways. That said, as is a major theme of the article, he should have gotten over himself long ago.

INEXCUSABLE is getting the guy fired. So, of course, is either rape charge if true. Raping a groupie who changed her mind isn't quite as bad as grabbing a stranger in a dark alley and raping her -- but it's still, to put it mildly, inexcusable.

 

[Joker]

I heard THIS idea vomited up on EEI this afternoon..."maybe his concussion history has led to a personality change because he wasn't like this in high school.."...almost drove off the narrow two lane I was on and into the drink...undrunk...

 

[pherein]

In a court of law, yes, where you must PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. Lacking actual proof does not mean the person didn't do it, only that there wasn't enough proof. I believe it is a good system, erring on the proper side (worse to send innocent people to jail than to not to confine guilty people).

But if someone you knew beat you up and stole your cash, but you couldn't prove it in court, would you go around telling people he never did it? Or would you say he did it but you couldn't prove it?

AFAIK, there is no innocence in court. People are found guilty or not guilty.

Outside of the legal system, innocence is a state of being that does not change based on legal review. You can be found guilty in court and be innocent of the crime, and you be found not guilty and be guilty.

Being innocent is not the same as not being charged due to lack of evidence.

You can look at his history and what you know and say that since he has yet to be found guilty in a court of law, as far as you are concerned he has the same moral character as Tedy Bruschi if you want.

I say he is a scumbag.

I think it is a terrible thing to get someone fired. Bad of the boss for firing a guy who just did his job, but bad of Roethlisberger to go through the effort to get a guy fired because he was annoyed that the guy did his job and did not worship Roethlisberger's feet.

Yea Im with you on this, I think hes a social predator, and they are almost impossible to treat, and usually later end up having kids that they make into scumbags because of their emotional adolescence as a parent. My heart tells me he should be in jail or worse.

But that is kind of what bothers me also. I should believe in our system of justice, but I really don't.

No one saw ,or there is not enough evidence to convicted Roethlisberger, yet MSNBC, CNN, NFL.com, and etc.. are now some sort of media witnesses to a crime, where he is already convicted.

I even believe them. I believe hes a scumbag.

yet if you lookup "innocent man in jail freed" in google you couple read all year about how the media convicted many people, later set free by evidence, theres allot. Or the spanish American war accidentally started by the medias coverage.
DNA clears man after 35 years in prison - Crime & courts- msnbc.com


I guess what Im saying is I am confused by our system of judgement were we believe someone is guilty. I thought the justice system was suppose to do that, not FoxNews.

case in point of how I do not trust our justice system: the death penalty
Im not confused at all about this.

I completely agree with it. Some people are just really evil, and Ive met a few as a ALS-EMT in N.H. wit Kerr Ambulance. They need to be removed permanently, before they hurt or effect peoples lives.

But I do not support the Death penalty in the end, NO. Why because we can not absolutely with out a doubt NOT kill an innocent person, and killing an innocent person is murder, plain and simple.

I know Roethlisberger is a bad guy, and I think he should be band from football for his actions, and if he was I would feel pretty good. Thats whats bothering me, because in truth I have no idea what really happened.

 

[apple strudel]

I heard THIS idea vomited up on EEI this afternoon..."maybe his concussion history has led to a personality change because he wasn't like this in high school.."...almost drove off the narrow two lane I was on and into the drink...undrunk...

This came from espn.com (at least) yesterday and it was the most sycophantic excuse I've ever heard. This is why it's bad for "news" organizations to have financial ties with the subjects they "cover".