Patriots trading Richard Seymour to the Raiders!!!

[bob85ne]

From a business perspective it makes sense

BUT

In my opinion it makes little sense from a playing point of view.

 

[DaBruinz]

OK, so...

- The Pats had a glut of DL talent.
- They're playing a lot more 4-3, which means the big 3 of Seymour-Wilfork-Warren would have seen the field together a lot less often.
- Seymour was in the last year of his contract, and it's reasonable to target the younger, healthier Wilfork and Mankins as the two franchise tags/big $$ signings in the uncapped year. (With Brady to consider, too.)
- The last 2 times BB had a top-10 draft pick to play with, he ended up with Seymour and Mayo. Those opportunities just don't come along often.

So I can see how it makes sense. If only it were Oakland's 2010 #1, I'd actually think it was a great deal. The iffy status of the whole 2011 season tempers my enthusiasm considerably.

BTW, I don't see how this move makes sense for Oakland at all.

The Jumbo 4-3 that the Pats ran out there was very good, imho.

I agree with what you said otherwise.

 

[Brady to Brown]

I thought this was going to happen earlier this season. By Seymour. He was never worth the money IMO. Besides when he was younger.

I love this move.

 

[patsfanofNC12]

I know I will probably get blasted for this, but I am just wondering. Is there any chance they have something more in mind and might try to take that pick and another and swap it for someone--maybe Peppers haha. Not saying it would be him, but an example

 

[Patsgofor4]

I have no more insight into BB thoughts than anyone else here but I predict Green-Wilfork-Pryor-Warren to start in the 4-3 on Monday. Could Carter be on the way to replace some DL depth?

 

[Double G]

I find it ironic that the last time this team pulled a shocker like this (letting Lawyer go, for whom they got nothing by the way) was prior to the opener vs the Bills, just like this one.

Hopefully the short term result (they got their clocks cleaned) will not be the same, although I'd take it if the long term result (they won the Super Bowl that year) were also the same.

This teams philosophy since BB got here was to win a championship while also keeping an eye on the future; not really sure if you can do both as they haven't won a Super Bowl in five years.

This off season has certainly been interesting between letting Vrabel go (still scratching me head over that one based on what I've seen during the pre season) and letting Thomas, Smith, O'Callahan go. Is this going to be part of a bigger move, ie, signing Vince? It had better be.

Will this make a questionable defense worse, I guess time will tell. If whichever player replaces him does not step up and the team does not win a Super Bowl, then this will be a terrible trade; anything short of a Super Bowl is a failure around these parts.

Not to mention; if the pick is very high, what are the odds this team a.) uses it or b.) trades down like they've done time and time and time again.

If they use the pick and that player becomes a all pro year after year and they win the Super Bowl this year, then I'm all for it.

Anything short of either and this is not a good deal.

Only time will tell.

 

[SVN]

BB is never afraid to think outside the box so this move is typical of him.
on the other hand i dont know how this defense is better than last yr which itself had issues.

 

[DarrylS]

Holy Crap.. did not see this coming, guess it is best not to fall in love with the vets... feel bad for #93.

 

[BritPat]

(4) There are a lot of good 3-4 DE prospects coming up in the next 2 years. If we had gotten Oakland's 2010 1st then I could have seen Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy as possibilities. Keep your eye on Lawrence Marsh out of Florida, a 6'5" 305# junior with Seymour-like athleticism.

Vince Oghobaase is the one for me.

 

[patchick]

If they use the pick and that player becomes a all pro year after year and they win the Super Bowl this year, then I'm all for it.

Anything short of either and this is not a good deal.

Wow, you're tough to please! If the Pats win the Superbowl this year, that means Seymour's loss cost them absolutely nothing. He was gone for 2010 regardless. But you require a HOF-caliber draft pick on top of that, or it's a bad deal?

Me, I'll settle for the Superbowl and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[maverick4]

The forum isn't showing my posts possibly due to volume.

In 2011, high picks are way more valuable than right now, because we'll have fixed salaries at low money for many years. The new CBA will make it like the NBA.

 

[patchick]

The forum isn't showing my posts possibly due to volume.

In 2011, high picks are way more valuable than right now, because we'll have fixed salaries at low money for many years. The new CBA will make it like the NBA.

Actually, your multiple posts saying this have all shown up fine.

I understand the idea, but you're stating conjecture as fact. The rookie salary structure might be fixed in 2011; on the flipside, there might be no contract and no football in 2011. (Plus there's always the possibility that the Raiders could have new management and can hire a competent coaching staff for 2010.)

 

[BradyBranch39]

So we're a significantly worse team in 2009 and 2010 for a 2011 first rounder? wtf?

Ya, I hate this move.

 

[Disco Volante]

In BB we trust.

 

[jefmblrd]

I was shocked to read this, but it does make sense after thinking about it.

Seymour is in the last year of his contract, so getting a number one pick is good value.

They have freed up some money to possibly sign Wilfork and Mankins.

2011 may see a rookie salary cap, so the value of that pick grows. There is the chance of a lockout in 2011, but I have to think that both sides are too smart to let that happen. I hope anyway.

This move really underscores why the Patriots drafted all those DLmen this year.

I liked Seymour and am sorry to see him go, but the reality is that you have to constantly restock the team in order to stay in contention.

It is going to be painful to watch him get a bunch is sacks as he charges upfield in the Raiders' D. I'll just have to keep in mind that he wouldn't have had the same opportunities in our scheme.

 

[mayoclinic]

OK, so...

- The Pats had a glut of DL talent.
- They're playing a lot more 4-3, which means the big 3 of Seymour-Wilfork-Warren would have seen the field together a lot less often.
- Seymour was in the last year of his contract, and it's reasonable to target the younger, healthier Wilfork and Mankins as the two franchise tags/big $$ signings in the uncapped year. (With Brady to consider, too.)
- The last 2 times BB had a top-10 draft pick to play with, he ended up with Seymour and Mayo. Those opportunities just don't come along often.

So I can see how it makes sense. If only it were Oakland's 2010 #1, I'd actually think it was a great deal. The iffy status of the whole 2011 season tempers my enthusiasm considerably.

BTW, I don't see how this move makes sense for Oakland at all.

I agree with most of this.

I can't believe that in 5 months our defense has lost Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison and Seymour, the core of our SB defenses. I think all are good moves for the long term, but it does leave one with a kind of empty feeling.

Some thoughts:

(1) I see us mixing a 4-3 starting Warren-Wilfork-Brace-Burgess at DL and Thomas-Mayo-Guyton at LB with a 3-4 using Warren-Wilfork/Brace-Green/Wright/Brace at DL and Thomas-Mayo-Guyton-Woods/Burgess at LB. Good as Seymour was, I don't see much of a dropoff in the defense using those formations. I think Brace showed a lot during the preseason, and is capable of starting. The combination of Brace and Wilfork together in a 4-3 should be remiscent of Traylor and Wilfork in 2004.

(2) As good as Seymour was, he would be 30 next year and would likely have wanted top dollar. This clears the path to resigning Mankins and Wilfork, who are younger and less replaceable.

(3) This could create some flexibility to go after a top FA in 2010, such as DeMarcus Ware. With 3 2nd round picks in 2010 and an extra 2011 1st, we could give up our own 2010 and 2011 picks to sign someone like Ware (assuming he gets the franchise tag instead of a long term deal) without losing a beat. I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that it gives our FO a lot of flexibility, and they are very good working with flexibility.

(4) There are a lot of good 3-4 DE prospects coming up in the next 2 years. If we had gotten Oakland's 2010 1st then I could have seen Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy as possibilities. Keep your eye on Lawrence Marsh out of Florida, a 6'5" 305# junior with Seymour-like athleticism.

 

[DaBruinz]

I know I will probably get blasted for this, but I am just wondering. Is there any chance they have something more in mind and might try to take that pick and another and swap it for someone--maybe Peppers haha. Not saying it would be him, but an example

To the best of my knowledge, Peppers contract is set and can't be changed. So the Pats would have to have 17 million in cap space to consider adding him.. That would mean freeing up another 11 million in cap space and praying that no one gets injured this season since they'd not be able to add anyone since they'd have no room.

It could mean that the Pats coaxed Kevin Carter to sign with them. Carter is a better 4-3 DE than Seymour. Getting the 1st round pick instead of having to settle for a 3rd round comp for Seymour is also a plus.

 

[102 Pat]

Apologies if this was mentioned in previous posts, but I wonder if the development of Brace and Pyror had any weight on the trade?

I wonder if there are some angry fans of who may of recently ordered a Seymour jersey, especially the retro one the Pats Pro Shop is selling...

 

[GullyFoyle]

So long Richard and thanks for your years of hard work.....I counted three.

 

[Theplayer]

just about everyone on footballguys.com thinks this is a steal for the Pats...I thought so to when I first heard the news..not sure why so many here don't like the move. A top 10-15(or better) pick for a 30 year old veteran who has definitely slipped the past few years...and was gone after this year anyway.