Belichick Chose Bodden Over Hobbs

[mgteich]

Bodden's salary is $2.25M with no incentives, $1M guaranteed, and a no-franchise clause. Why is that ridiculous? Springs is being paid $4.45M. A likely starter at corner is surely worth more than $2M. If he isn't worth at least this, then we should have kept Hobbs.

Bodden was first reported that he signed for the vet minimum, it was later bumped up a bit. It certainly isn't for 2.25 million, is it?

If it is, that's rediculous

 

[supafly]

The guy has good size, and yes, he has done well in a similar system. I hope he works out, and I'm trying to be more optimistic about him and his talents.

Time will only tell, here's hoping to a much improved secondary.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bodden and Springs are being compared to previous JAGs and over-the-hill guys that Belichick brought in. Perhaps, that's fair or perhaps Vrabel is a better comparison. No one thought much of him at Pittsburgh or here when we got him.

Belichick is paying Bodden $2.25M this year (probably plus incentives) in a show-me contract. Bodden insisted on a no-franchise clause. Belichick is paying Springs $4.45M this year and over $5M over the next two. These salaries are not chump change for JAG's. They may not work out to be worth the money, but they are not just a shot in the dark. Belichick expects two starters, unless one of youngsters pleasantly surprises us all.

Terrible comparison. It's not even close.

 

[supafly]

Bodden's salary is $2.25M with no incentives, $1M guaranteed, and a no-franchise clause. Why is that ridiculous? Springs is being paid $4.45M. A likely starter at corner is surely worth more than $2M. If he isn't worth at least this, then we should have kept Hobbs.

You are correct, I went back and retracted that statement. But my personal opinion is that we should've kept someone who was proven in our system. Especially for the same money.

I hope Bodden works out, and no I suppose it's fair money when you consider other CB's getting paid a lot more. It's just shocking at first when you figure that Hobbs was already proven, experienced, and had indeed made good strides in this system over the yrs--for the same exact money. We could've retained his services for basically 2 more yrs, at a good and fair price.

I just hope Bodden works out, and I still feel when you get rid of something proven for something you hope to be better, it's a gamble. Plain and simple.

But Springs may be overpaid too, while we're at it. Whatever, I'm done *****ing and contemplating the move, it's not my call, so I'll have to learn to like it. I hope 3-4 wks into the season, we're not revisiting these threads, that's all.

 

[Rob0729]

Once again, due to the probability of the uncapped year, he could've stayed for 2 more years because of his RFA status next yr. If not we would've gotten a very unprobable 1st and a 3rd for him.

So, I've still yet to understand the "we were going to get rid of him after this yr for salary demands" theory???

Unless, BB knows something about the possibility of a new CBA--which I guess is certainly possible, I still don't understand why everyone assumes he was gone after this yr? He would've been a RFA.

The Pats cannot go about business assuming there will be an uncapped year next year. If they do and they work out a new CBA or work out a deal to extend the current CBA another year, they will be between a rock and a hard place. Belichick is not going to reach free agency next year with four or five key free agents because he assumed that there would be no cap. Besides, even if Hobbs is an RFA rather than a UFA, the Pats may not want to spend the money on a tender when they have so many other players that will be UFA or RFA.

I am stating about his salary demands in that the Patriots are not going to value him as much as he and other teams will value him. They have spent three fairly high draft picks on CBs the last two years with barring injuries having Butler and Wheatley as the projected starters of the future. Hobbs has always been a confident person and is going to want starter money, but he isn't assurd of a starting job with this team in 2010.

Belichick has to approach situations like these determining the worst case scenario. In this case, it may have been keeping Hobbs another year and letting him walk for free. Belichick cannot count on an uncapped year when making long term decisions because there is still a decent chance a long term or short term solution to avoid an uncapped year could occur.

 

[Deus Irae]

Belichick cannot count on an uncapped year when making long term decisions because there is still a decent chance a long term or short term solution to avoid an uncapped year could occur.

Belichick cannot count on a new CBA. Your argument makes no sense to me.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

We have been calling Hobbs a decent nickel back who was forced to be our #2 and then #1 corner. Congrats to Hobbs. He has done a decent job for us. We need to move on and try to imporve. To me, Hobbs does not even have the potential to be a decent cover corner. We need to TRY to find players who could cover so that more pressure could be put on the QB's.

Maybe Bodden is that guy, maybe Springs, or maybe we will need to develop Butler, Wheatley and/or Wilhite or even someone next year. One thing seems clear. Hobbs was not ever going to be our STAR corner, our shutdown dependable #1 corner.

NO ONE has compared Bodden to Ty Law. No one should. NO ONE should have compared Hobbs or even Samuel to Ty Law. Such comparisons are between relative unknowns and a future HOFer. We MAY have a shutdown corner this year. It is clear we didn't have one in Hobbs.

One problem is you can't seem to acknowledge is the "we" you are talking about consists of a bunch of fans on a football website.

The game changed after 2003 in case you didn't get the memo. Ty Law couldn't be a shutdown corner under the rules emphasis currently in play. In fact while Ty is in the conversation where the HOF is concerned, he's no slam dunk. He was always a ballhawk and he got lucky in NY during the last month of the season. As late as Thanksgiving Herm was nudging him towards the proverbial bus because he had committed far more costly penalties than picks.

In 2006 Belichich paid Starks $3.5M and traded a third for him. He expected a change of scenery was all he needed. He was mistaken. He'd suffered an injury his first season in AZ and lost his speed. He was never the same. That is why AZ traded him...

Springs deal is essentially a 3 year $9M deal possibly plus incentives...that's less than they offered Asante and Law back in 2006 before one had double digit picks in his career and the other limped onto the field for the JETS. It's about what they signed Sanders for (although he got a little more bonus money)...Top tier corners are making $9M per these days, and mid level servicible starters are making half that.

Bodden's deal is a 1 year $2.25M deal with $1M guaranteed and no incentives and a no tag clause for spin purposes that Bill probably giggled as he initialed.

I have never understood why some people here get so carried away with making snap judgements and sweeping pronouncements.

 

[DW Toys]

Trade Watson and Green to Arizona along with a 2010 2nd round pick for Karlos Dansby. Arizona needs DL and TE help badly. Dansby could play OLB or SILB and would greatly solidify the LB corps. Be still my beating heart.

Done! Where do we sign everyone up! Actually it makes perfect sense. Could be a CAP trade off to some extent.
DW Toys

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

If you think about it, Bodden's cap # is practically identical to the savings from the Hobbs trade. It's essentially a swap with a couple 5th rounders thrown in. It's not an outlandish assumption to think what the OP thinks.

I was always a Hobbs backer but even if Butler wasn't there we had alot of bodies at CB going into the draft.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick cannot count on a new CBA. Your argument makes no sense to me.

He has to prepare for either scenario. That means he cannot do something planning for the best case scenario. He cannot keep Hobbs because he is banking on him being a RFA next year. Granted he shouldn't have traded him solely on him being an UFA who won't be resigned either.

For every personal decision that will be affected either way by what happens with the CBA, Belichick has to weigh both sides of what might happen and make the best choice for the team. Making decisions based solely on whether Hobbs is going to be a RFA or an UFA is stupid. Making a decision on his 2009 cap savings if traded and the fact that if there is a new CBA that he will most likely leave in free agency is.

My argument is not that Belichick has to count on a new CBA. In fact, it is the exact opposite. I am saying he has to count on that he doesn't know what is going to happen and he cannot put the team in a bind betting one outcoming happening over the other.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

We have been calling Hobbs a decent nickel back who was forced to be our #2 and then #1 corner.

Who's "we?"

 

[PatsFanInVa]

If we went into the day 1 CB short and meant to fill that with Butler, he'd have come off the board a lot sooner. Fact is all the drafting up talk was BS based on teams above us hoping to use our name to create value in their hard to trade out of picks. Bill says it never happened except in the context of pretty much every team above us calling at some time in the weeks before the draft because they were all looking to trade down... And since the draft we have learned he never intended to draft in the first because he didn't like anyone in that round as value. This was not an elite draft. This was also a draft devoid of elite CB talent. We took the #2 ranked Butler right after the #1 ranked corner went off the board. Meant we had to trade up to also take Brace because we apparently were targeting him at 41 (meaning he ranked higher on our board than the corner). Would we have traded back into the first had the other corner gone earlier, apparently not.

We only traded Hobbs AFTER Philly called us twice on day two. First time they called Bill said he had no interest. Then they called again after the third round when Bill believed he had no picks coming until the end of the 5th and he was anticipating taking an extended break... After thinking it over and assessing his board he did the deal and then immediately did another to flip the two fifths from Philly into a 4th he used within moments on an OL and a 6th he later used on a long snapper.

This wasn't a pre planned deal where Bill told teams to call me if I take Butler... He had no plan to trade Hobbs before Philly called on Sunday. Would he have developed a plan to trade Hobbs post draft? Who knows. But if he did it would likely have been for a 3rd and more in 2010 because once this draft was over there was little he could gain that might help him elsewhere this season. I'm sure part of his risk/reward calculation included having another OL on the roster he probably rated as an excellent value there. In addition to $2.35M in cap space that could be used post draft to fill any remaining voids (like OLB or ILB which is even more plausible given our 3rd rounder is already on IR).

We won't know if his draft or FA value/reward calculations were the right moves for some time. But that's always the risk.

Well then that was a huge waste of a labyrinthine post on my part. You're right, I'm wrong, screw you guys I'm going home.

pFnV

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well then that was a huge waste of a labyrinthine post on my part. You're right, I'm wrong, screw you guys I'm going home.

pFnV

Oh, so this was really a sex thread? :confused3:

 

[jays52]

Well then that was a huge waste of a labyrinthine post on my part. You're right, I'm wrong, screw you guys I'm going home.

pFnV

Hey pFnV, given the quote, do you happen to be a South Park fan? You're clearly a very bright guy, and I've always felt that SP is one of the most intelligent, layered shows on televison. Just curious if you appreciate their weekly takes on our modern psychosis.

 

[billdog3484]

Bodden's a Patriot now, Hobbs is not. Thats all that matters to me

 

[IcyPatriot]

We have been calling Hobbs a decent nickel back who was forced to be our #2 and then #1 corner. Congrats to Hobbs. He has done a decent job for us. We need to move on and try to imporve. To me, Hobbs does not even have the potential to be a decent cover corner.

Gee replace the name Hobbs with the name Samuel and that was a post similar to many back in Asante's early days here. We used to discuss whether he also was a competent nickle CB.

Just saying because really 'we' don't always know what the heck we are looking at.

Re: Asante Samuel appreciation thread.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=215933

He's not a #1 corner. He plays like a nickel back. He takes lots of risks, sometimes getting burned and sometimes getting interceptions and the game ball, as he deserves today.

Call this criticism if you want. If it's criticism, it's the to FO for not getting us a #1 corner. Samuel is fine player. I want us to extend his contract. That doesn't mean I want him to be our #1 corner, or even #2.

 

[mgteich]

I certainly don't.

If it were up to me, Samuel would never have been the #1; Law would have been.

Gee replace the name Hobbs with the name Samuel and that was a post similar to many back in Asante's early days here. We used to discuss whether he also was a competent nickle CB.

Just saying because really 'we' don't always know what the heck we are looking at.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

You want a link for my analysis?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...237555-belichick-chose-bodden-over-hobbs.html

 

[mayoclinic]

Bodden's a Patriot now, Hobbs is not. Thats all that matters to me

:agree::agree: That's really all that needs to be said.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I certainly don't.

If it were up to me, Samuel would never have been the #1; Law would have been.

Me too, not to mention Bill, only I thought we all understood why that wasn't an option. There were as I recall $12M or was it $14M reasons he wouldn't fit under an $82M cap and he wasn't willing to restructure to a 4 year $24M deal before he landed in that motorized cart...or take 2 years $9-11M thereafter. If he had he probably could have limped through 2005 and saved us all enduring the Duane Starks experiment.