Mayock laughs at the Barwin-ites

[jays52]

Bet you 5 buck you will not get a response. If you do it had better be an intelligent one about what a Jack LB is in our defense and how Barwins abilities are not compatible with this conversion??

Haha, Coach, I'm willing to bet not a single detractor even knows what a Jack is. 34 terminology is still coming into it's infancy 'round these parts.

 

[DaBruinz]

I am very Anti-Barwin at #23. I wouldnt mind at #34 but definatly not at #23 reaching on a player just because he Might not be around when your next pick is up isnt smart. I would much rather take BPA at #23 than reaching at Barwin, And no Barwin wont be BPA at #23. #34..Maybe

The Patriots, under Belichick, do not draft BPA. They draft BVA according to THEIR draft board. Not any of the draft sites. And no one outside the Patriots warroom (Pioli/Dimitroff excluded), including Mike Mayock, knows what their draft board looks like. Its why all these "experts" claim that the Patriots reached on guys like Wheatley, O'Connell, Wilhite, Mankins, Hobbs, and a variety of others in the past.

I can remember Logan Mankins supposedly not being 1st round value. Yet the Patriots grabbed him at the end of the 1st round. He came in and started at a new position and has played near an All-Pro level since they drafted him.

 

[BelichickFan]

Haha, Coach, I'm willing to bet not a single detractor even knows what a Jack is. 34 terminology is still coming into it's infancy 'round these parts.

I still want to know when we used a high pick on a guy going to make a significant position change. Other than the desperation move of Eugene Wilson to Safety the biggest position changes we've seen from guys in the top three rounds is college DT playing DE in our 3-4.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Mel Kiper just said, unless it was pre-recorded, that the Patriots will take Clay Matthews or Donald Brown at #23. So, you can take that to the bank or two banks.

 

[BelichickFan]

I can remember Logan Mankins supposedly not being 1st round value. Yet the Patriots grabbed him at the end of the 1st round. He came in and started at a new position and has played near an All-Pro level since they drafted him.

OT to OG is a far cry from what we'd be asking of any college DE moving to OLB for us.

 

[maverick4]

Mr. Mayock needs a dose of reality.

to triplechamp: Thanks for your 2 cents. Though it wasn't asked for.

Whether it be to another poster here, or on the best NFL draft expert out there, the guy can't seem to speak respectfully to anyone.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Haha, Coach, I'm willing to bet not a single detractor even knows what a Jack is. 34 terminology is still coming into it's infancy 'round these parts.

You need to head down to Laval or Concordia or my school Bishops to play some ball. Glen Contantin (laval), Warren Craney (Concordia), or Ray Gangon at Bishops the will teach you all about he 3-4 and how it is played.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I still want to know when we used a high pick on a guy going to make a significant position change. Other than the desperation move of Eugene Wilson to Safety the biggest position changes we've seen from guys in the top three rounds is college DT playing DE in our 3-4.

You have a point

 

[maverick4]

Can someone who is constantly disparaging Barwin please, please, please name for me one better Jack conversion prospect in the draft?

That is a moot point when the list of successful 1st-round-pick conversion projects, or prospects with just 1 good college year on defense, is slim to nearly non-existent.

 

[maverick4]

What big money are you talking about? As the 10th overall pick, Mayo only stands to make 13.5 million over 5 years. Maybe a few mill more with escalators.

Maroney's deal was a 5 year deal worth 8.375 million as the 21st pick.

There is not "big money" involved unless you are talking about the top 5 players in the draft.

That is definitely expensive when you are talking about conversion projects who likely won't see the field much their first few years. You said yourself none of these conversion projects including Barwin is a likely starter for a few years.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I'd love to get him at #34, that said, I don't see any better prospective pass rusher who can also play well in space, is good against the run, and already has the size NE needs for the position in this draft. Yesterday patchick found the new updates NFL Draft Scout did on DE profiles - it isn't just my eyes telling me Barwin is a more well-rounded player than Orakpo, Ev Brown, Michael Johnson, Aaron Maybin, and Robert Ayers. You give something up to get something, I don't presume to know who BPA will be at #23, but out of the prospects we keep seeing projected to that point in the draft, I don't see any player who has the long term potential to keep this team in the running for an offseason berth each year. People who prefer an OT are welcome to their choice. If they want a CB, more power to them. I want a stronger pass rush and I don't want to give up the run game or coverage ability doing it, so I'll give up a few places in the draft to a "reach" to get the player I feel best matches that skillset. Until the draft rolls around I won't know if it's wiser to draft a falling Michael Crabtree - I do know it would be wiser to pass on a falling Everette Brown, Barwin is better against the run and has better potential in coverage.

If you Honestly think Barwin can be an over 10 sacks a year OLB than I guess I trust you because you have seen more of him but im just not sure. He is still not my first choice tho.

 

[maverick4]

I still want to know when we used a high pick on a guy going to make a significant position change. Other than the desperation move of Eugene Wilson to Safety the biggest position changes we've seen from guys in the top three rounds is college DT playing DE in our 3-4.

An excellent, key point that will be overlooked/ignored since it can't be explained away.

Another question that needs an answer is what is the list of 1st-round picks, high on hype but low on actual defensive college production, who went on to successful NFL careers worthy of their pick? John Lynch was a successful convert from limited college action, but he was a 3rd rounder.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

For me the question isn't whether or not Barwin is the best of the bunch - it's whether we should spend a #1 pick on a guy changing positions; and whether Belichick would be so inclined.

Well, if you get really technical, Seymour, Warren, Mankins, and Mayo all changed positions. Graham and Watson both had to learn to be blocking TEs. BB tried to use Meriweather at CB - I think part of the need to Franchise Asante happened because BB had projected Meriweather to ballhawking CB in his place.

I've come to believe the issue isn't so much changing positions, it's learning to do what you were doing in college in a new role for NE. I'm not going to bet that BB is gunshy after Meriweather didn't work out at CB, he's getting good value out of him for the pick.

Let's look at Barwin not as an OLB which he's never played, but as a TE which he played well for Cincinnati:

Barwin amassed 40 first downs on 53 receptions, converting eight third-down snaps and three more on fourth down. Twenty-six of his receptions gained at least 10 yards, with 13 going for 20 yards or more. His clutch receptions produced 20 touchdown drives and three other series ended with Cincinnati field goals.

"Clutch," we don't hear that very often about Ben Watson. So here's a kid Watson's size, with Watson's hustle and Watson's kind of athleticism who is getting called "clutch." What could he have done at TE if he'd stayed at the position last season? Might he be worth a first round pick with another year like his Junior year? Watson had 73 receptions in his college career at Duke and Georgia, Barwin has 53 in one less year, would he have been good for 20 more catches? So as fans do we say, "NO" to another athletic TE? I guess some do. But if he was in this draft and BB drafted him at #23 as a TE we might grumble, but we'd say BB is consistent.

If BB tried to make Meriweather a CB and failed, his failure wasn't irredeemable; I can see taking a late first gamble on a kid who is showing all the things you want to see in a NE OLB, especially if you can always plug him in as a TE when Watson hits Free Agency after this season - by then you'll know if he's going to make the transition, just like you knew about Meriweather and CB. Just a different way to look at "BPA."

 

[DaBruinz]

I still want to know when we used a high pick on a guy going to make a significant position change. Other than the desperation move of Eugene Wilson to Safety the biggest position changes we've seen from guys in the top three rounds is college DT playing DE in our 3-4.

One of the things about Bill Belichick is that he is like the warning that are on stocks. Past history is not indicative of future performance. I mean, up until they drafted Wilfork in the first round, BB had only drafted 1 underclassman since he took over as the HC of the Patriots. That was Patrick Pass. Since drafting Wilfork, they Pats have drafted at least 1 underclassman in each draft. Prior to Mankins, BB had never drafted an interior lineman in the first round. Prior to Mayo, BB had never drafted a LB in the first round.

There are several things that make Barwin enticing. The first is that he played 4 years of D1 college football. The second is that, not only did he switch from TE to DE, the did so with resounding success. And its not like the Bearcats D-line is loaded with outstanding talent. Is Barwin raw? Yep. He is. But he's football smart. Not just smart. And he's not an athelete who happens to be a football player. He's a football player who happens to be amazingly atheletic. There is a huge difference between the two and the latter is the type of player that BB looks for.

This is a kid who hates coming off the field. Its why he approached the Bearcats coaches about playing on special teams. So he got time there as well.

He's also a leader. He gets players fired up. And holds himself accountable for mistakes.

The only real drawback to the kid is that he's raw for the OLB position. But, then Adalius Thomas was raw also. So was Bruschi. So have been a host of others.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

An excellent, key point that will be overlooked/ignored since it can't be explained away.

Another question that needs an answer is what is the list of 1st-round picks, high on hype but low on actual defensive college production, who went on to successful NFL careers worthy of their pick? John Lynch was a successful convert from limited college action, but he was a 3rd rounder.

I personally see both you points but Barwin is Barwin in the 2009 draft not Lynch's draft or heck Gates did not even play COLLEGE BALL. I really like what I see from him so far on tape and he does make plays which is what gets you drafted not just his physical gifts. Where he has picked up TE then Defense so quickly at a very high level of competition is what has me thinking he is worth our #34. #23 I think BB is saving for the BPA as he will have him around for 5 years at a good price. Weather it is a OL, CB, DL who knows but I could see BB going this way then targeting Barwin at #34. This is good news as many people trust Mayock, blindly to a point.

 

[DaBruinz]

Whether it be to another poster here, or on the best NFL draft expert out there, the guy can't seem to speak respectfully to anyone.

Again, its your opinion that Mayock is the best draft expert out there.

Its amazing how much of a joke you are since you are the one who opened up the insults. And PatsNutMe warned you about it. So instead of hittign the Complaint triangle, you whine in the forum like a 2 year old.

I have talked to PLENTY of people with respect. Because they earn it. They don't lie and make stuff up.

Champs comments weren't needed. And considering how you started off in this thread, you should expect anything you receive.

BTW, only YOU would say that my comments about Mayock needing a dose of reality are insulting. But then, you find anything you can to whine about.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Again, its your opinion that Mayock is the best draft expert out there.

Its amazing how much of a joke you are since you are the one who opened up the insults. And PatsNutMe warned you about it. So instead of hittign the Complaint triangle, you whine in the forum like a 2 year old.

I have talked to PLENTY of people with respect. Because they earn it. They don't lie and make stuff up.

Champs comments weren't needed. And considering how you started off in this thread, you should expect anything you receive.

BTW, only YOU would say that my comments about Mayock needing a dose of reality are insulting. But then, you find anything you can to whine about.

Stop responding To Him be the Bigger Man its ruining the Thread!

 

[maverick4]

I think BB is saving for the BPA as he will have him around for 5 years at a good price.

I completely agree with you on this. Belichick isn't going to overpay a rookie on his 1st contract. He's going to take a player who he projects will produce at a level worth more than what he earns from his rookie contract. The list of players in draft history who were worth 1st round money after 1 good year on defense is not very encouraging for why the Pats would take him. It makes a LOT of sense for us to sign him after some other team has paid/developed him a few years and become a little disillusioned/disappointed for their likely high pick on the him.

 

[DaBruinz]

An excellent, key point that will be overlooked/ignored since it can't be explained away.

Another question that needs an answer is what is the list of 1st-round picks, high on hype but low on actual defensive college production, who went on to successful NFL careers worthy of their pick? John Lynch was a successful convert from limited college action, but he was a 3rd rounder.

What lack of college action? Barwin played 4 years in college so he has a good grasp on the speed of the game.

Here is a question for you. Please provide a list of the college players who successfully played 3 years of offense before switching to defense and were one of the best at their position during their 1st year of the switch. (Note: your binkie Trevor Scott isn't eligible since he played 2 years of defense in college)

Maybe when you man up and start answering the questions asked of you, someone will deem your questions worth answering.

 

[maverick4]

I have talked to PLENTY of people with respect. Because they earn it. They don't lie and make stuff up.

Bull. The vast majority of your posts are in usually in some sort of condescending pissing match with someone. Even in passing you can't help but add in some rude remark like the one I pasted above that you addressed to triplechamp. A few years ago when I started reading, I thought it was amusing that you always seemed to be berating some poster here, but your act is getting really tiring, you are in denial about it, and unlike others here I don't back down from douchebags who think they know more than other posters, or even well-respected draft analysts like Mayock.

But thanks for confirming what I wrote about you, it was very predictable that your first response to BF's thread was to discredit Mayock.