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Mayock laughs at the Barwin-ites

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BelichickFan, Apr 7, 2009.

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  1. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Well not laughs but he said :

    - The media has gotten out of control with the numbers.
    - He's a third round "player" right now.
    - As a DE/OLB he's 2-3 years away.
    - To get something out of him soon it would likely be at TE.
    - He'll probably go in the second round.

    Nothing about us being lucky to get him at #23 :D
  2. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    Lol thats funny, take English over him anyday.
  3. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey


    OMG- not a good day for the patsfans draft forum.:rolleyes:
  4. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    Broken hearts all over the board.
  5. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    They prob wont even show up here. The Truth hurts.lmao:singing::singing:
  6. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    I see it as good news for the draft Connor Barwin crowd..... Now they can dance naked in the streets when BB selects him at #58! :cool:
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  7. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Box and DaBruinz's faces just got completely red and Mayock is now an idiot for disagreeing with their expert analysis.
  8. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Ok have your fun but don't hit the complaint triangle.
  9. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    errrr......ummmmm

    this changes everything

    BTW, mayock missed the boat on gholston, so it is very possible he lacks the knowledge to analyze the position
  10. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

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    Nothing like dropping a first round rookie contract on a guy that won't contribute till he is old enough to demand a raise. Hope some team bites on him high and allows some more instant contributor in the Pat's pick zones.
  11. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Exactly. Due to the big money involved, the Pats go for players who end up being good values as they play out their rookie deals. Barwin may very well turn out to be a great player in 3 years, and if so I hope the Pats snatch him up from whatever team wasted time/money developing him while he was playing on a rookie contract.
  12. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Ya cuz gholstons career is now over and he is a commplete bust...Rex Ryan turns him into a beast mark my words.
  13. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    I don't know if I would exactly be calling it laughing at "barwin-ites". Let's remove emotion for a minute and look objectively at what Mayock said.

    1) Media has gotten out of control with the numbers. Uh, fuggin duh. The media consumes numbers like Rosie O'Donell consumes Red Robin. That was never the value prop of Barwin in the first place. He was always regarded as a guy who could play, the numbers just showed how athletic he is.

    2) Barwin is a 3rd round player. No debate there. But stretch that productivity out over three seasons, add that athleticism, awareness and work ethic and we have a top five pick. That elevates his level in the draft.

    3) As a DE/OLB conversion he is 2-3 years away. Well. Name one player who has come into a Bill Belichick 34 at OLB and been dominant in his first season who didn't go on to become the greatest outside linebacker in NFL history.

    4) To get something out of him soon, Mayock is off. To get something out of him soon, put him on ST.

    5) No argument there.

    I really don't see what the big deal is over what Mayock said. It's certainly not the most scathing set of comments I have ever heard.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  14. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It's only a big deal on this board based on the prior hyperbole gushing over Barwin's measurables without pads on, and interviews with reporters.
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you have a link please?

    It's not terribly surprising, as Mayock has not had Barwin listed in his top 5 prospects at either DE or OLB, so I was assuming he was not particularly high on the guy. Obviously I don't agree with him, but it doesn't particularly upset me when someone disagrees - I've tried to be fairly impartial about citing references that rank prospects high or low (such as Nolan Nawrocki earlier today ranking Barwin as a mid-3rd round prospect), whether I agree with them or not.

    My personal feeling is that whether he deserves it or not, Barwin will go much higher than that. It only takes one or two teams to fall in love with a particular prospect. No one expected Donte Whitner to go #8 in 2006, for example. There is enough buzz about Barwin's athleticism, versatility and potential that I think he will go low 1st or at worst high 2nd.

    Barwin may be 2 years away from being an impact player. That wouldn't shock me, though I can see him progressing more quickly. Of course, Mayock has Aaron Maybin rated more highly, and I can't imagine that he's not 2 years away as an OLB.
  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where else would I be?

    Yup, I am teh stupid for spotting this kid before the Senior Bowl and saying before the Combine that he had first round talent. So where do you draft a kid who grades out just behind Everette Brown on one draftnik site? I don't care where NE drafts him, as long as they do get him. If NE wants to develop a pass rush from OLB, where do they get it? Larry English? A decent choice, but unless BB is flying him into Gillette in a disguise he's not showing much interest. The same with Clint Sintim. Clay Matthews hasn't entered the building yet, but we'd love to add his 4.5 sacks to the roster. Brian Cushing? Or we could trade up and grab Orakpo! If NE wants a premier athlete who has demonstrated better than average potential at rushing the passer, the choices are pretty limited - and that holds true for Miami and any other team.

    So my anti-Barwin friends, enjoy your moment of victory, you are vindicated you are the most astute observers of the NFL Draft we have and I look forward to your wisdom.
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It was on NFL Network's Path to the Draft. I think it's replayed at 10pm eastern, it's the last 5 minutes.
  18. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    That is some great news as now we can get him a lot later in the draft:D:D. I real do find it funny how people who do not like the kid are starting threads and comment all over other threads to bad mouth this guy. He is just a prospect trying to make it to the NFL and a couple of guys see his potential but the guys who do not see it you are more annoying then those who do like him.

    That being said Mayock usually knows his stuff...but no one is perfect at projecting HOF guys. Mike Mayock thought Chris Johnson was afraid to run up the middle and would never be anything more than a third down back. That he was only worth taking in the SECOND round because of his speed and do not get me started on Jones-Drew. I still can here Mayock preaching that whoever take Adrian Peterson will be taking a huge RISK. I really could go on and on but lets just say he is like us and is guessing at this point, but he does a few more insiders then we do;)

    Back to the thread I would grab Barwin at #34 or #47 as I do not feel he will be available at #58. I have seen film on this kid and I would give him a low first or high second round grade IMO.
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Whitner, like Mayo who was a surprise high pick, came in and became immediate starters/impact players. Barwin is coming in with tons of hype and likely will not live up to it, especially in his first three years.
  20. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    Or he does with him what he did with Suggs back in the day. People just do not realize that he abused the #1 pick in the draft last year and was not used correctly. Rex Ryan will use him correctly and he will be a factor for them this year I guarantee.
  21. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Mr. Mayock needs a dose of reality. All the DE to 3-4 OLB conversions are 2-3 years away from being productive.

    A team will get a LOT out of Barwin on special teams. More than they will using him as a TE.
  22. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    That was not my intent, I am interested in getting him. But not at #23. I actually started the thread to balance out the craziness a little although I realize the lengthy "overrated" thread does some of that.
  23. Box_O_Rocks

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    I'm still waiting for you to discuss Barwin's actual performance on the playing field, you've yet to do more than complain about his numbers and quote bloggers.
  24. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    We aren't you. But you just keep right on lying about how we view ourselves on the subject. It just shows everyone else that the way we've described you is the truth.

    As for Mayock, all the 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB are 2-3 years away. Including English.

    BTW, I have more respect for Mayock than someone like yourself who lies and makes stuff up.
  25. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    I am very Anti-Barwin at #23. I wouldnt mind at #34 but definatly not at #23 reaching on a player just because he Might not be around when your next pick is up isnt smart. I would much rather take BPA at #23 than reaching at Barwin, And no Barwin wont be BPA at #23. #34..Maybe
  26. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    Why not?? He pick up TE pretty quickly, then pick up Defense pretty quick as well. Why would you not believe that he could pick up OLB as he has done well picking up what ever that has been thrown at him so far in football. Maybe we should show him how to longsnap to save another roster spot by drafting this kid.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  27. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Isn't that what bullies and liars do? Take cheap shots and then go running to the teacher when people stand up to them?
  28. mayoclinic

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    Mav, let's separate out the issue of where Barwin is likely to go from where he deserves to go.

    Let's assume that Barwin's true value is a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick. I don't agree with that, but let's assume it. I would argue that he is likely to go much higher than that based on his athleticism, versatility, and rapid progression on defense. Even if we rate him accurately, teams will get carried away. That's why I say I think he is likely to be a late 1st/early 2nd round pick, regardless of where the Pats have him.

    The second question is where the Pats rate him and what his projected value and developmental course would be. I wouldn't expect any DE/OLB conversion to come in and start right away. I wouldn't expect any pick at #23 to come in and start right away. If those are your standards for the #23 pick, then don't use it on Barwin. But don't use it on Butler, Beatty, Gilbert, Tyson Jackson, Everette Brown and probably every other player. Mayo was the exception for the Pats, not the rule. He came in at a position of extreme need and was a particularly quick study.

    I rate Barwin as a 1st rounder. If the Pats do, I would argue that they will have to take him at 23 or at best 34 to get him. If they don't, then they should be happy that he will push someone else down to them.

    Again, I happen to be partial about Barwin, but I try to be impartial about his draft stock and what others think of him. Obviously, just like this board, some teams will fall in love with him and others will be leery of him.
  29. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    Can someone who is constantly disparaging Barwin please, please, please name for me one better Jack conversion prospect in the draft? Then, could they validate their opinion with something other than a quote from a guy who knows as much about football as my Jack Russell? Disclaimer, I was not referring to Mayock.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  30. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    For me the question isn't whether or not Barwin is the best of the bunch - it's whether we should spend a #1 pick on a guy changing positions; and whether Belichick would be so inclined.
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