Mayock laughs at the Barwin-ites

[DaBruinz]

Well not laughs but he said :

- The media has gotten out of control with the numbers.
- He's a third round "player" right now.
- As a DE/OLB he's 2-3 years away.
- To get something out of him soon it would likely be at TE.
- He'll probably go in the second round.

Nothing about us being lucky to get him at #23

Mr. Mayock needs a dose of reality. All the DE to 3-4 OLB conversions are 2-3 years away from being productive.

A team will get a LOT out of Barwin on special teams. More than they will using him as a TE.

 

[BelichickFan]

I real do find it funny how people who do not like the kid are starting threads and comment all over other threads to bad mouth this guy.

That was not my intent, I am interested in getting him. But not at #23. I actually started the thread to balance out the craziness a little although I realize the lengthy "overrated" thread does some of that.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It's only a big deal on this board based on the prior hyperbole gushing over Barwin's measurables without pads on, and interviews with reporters.

I'm still waiting for you to discuss Barwin's actual performance on the playing field, you've yet to do more than complain about his numbers and quote bloggers.

 

[DaBruinz]

Box and DaBruinz's faces just got completely red and Mayock is now an idiot for disagreeing with their expert analysis.

We aren't you. But you just keep right on lying about how we view ourselves on the subject. It just shows everyone else that the way we've described you is the truth.

As for Mayock, all the 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB are 2-3 years away. Including English.

BTW, I have more respect for Mayock than someone like yourself who lies and makes stuff up.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Where else would I be?

Yup, I am teh stupid for spotting this kid before the Senior Bowl and saying before the Combine that he had first round talent. So where do you draft a kid who grades out just behind Everette Brown on one draftnik site? I don't care where NE drafts him, as long as they do get him. If NE wants to develop a pass rush from OLB, where do they get it? Larry English? A decent choice, but unless BB is flying him into Gillette in a disguise he's not showing much interest. The same with Clint Sintim. Clay Matthews hasn't entered the building yet, but we'd love to add his 4.5 sacks to the roster. Brian Cushing? Or we could trade up and grab Orakpo! If NE wants a premier athlete who has demonstrated better than average potential at rushing the passer, the choices are pretty limited - and that holds true for Miami and any other team.

So my anti-Barwin friends, enjoy your moment of victory, you are vindicated you are the most astute observers of the NFL Draft we have and I look forward to your wisdom.

I am very Anti-Barwin at #23. I wouldnt mind at #34 but definatly not at #23 reaching on a player just because he Might not be around when your next pick is up isnt smart. I would much rather take BPA at #23 than reaching at Barwin, And no Barwin wont be BPA at #23. #34..Maybe

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Whitner, like Mayo who was a surprise high pick, came in and became immediate starters/impact players. Barwin is coming in with tons of hype and likely will not live up to it, especially in his first three years.

Why not?? He pick up TE pretty quickly, then pick up Defense pretty quick as well. Why would you not believe that he could pick up OLB as he has done well picking up what ever that has been thrown at him so far in football. Maybe we should show him how to longsnap to save another roster spot by drafting this kid.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok have your fun but don't hit the complaint triangle.

Isn't that what bullies and liars do? Take cheap shots and then go running to the teacher when people stand up to them?

 

[mayoclinic]

Whitner, like Mayo who was a surprise high pick, came in and became immediate starters/impact players. Barwin is coming in with tons of hype and likely will not live up to it, especially in his first three years.

Mav, let's separate out the issue of where Barwin is likely to go from where he deserves to go.

Let's assume that Barwin's true value is a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick. I don't agree with that, but let's assume it. I would argue that he is likely to go much higher than that based on his athleticism, versatility, and rapid progression on defense. Even if we rate him accurately, teams will get carried away. That's why I say I think he is likely to be a late 1st/early 2nd round pick, regardless of where the Pats have him.

The second question is where the Pats rate him and what his projected value and developmental course would be. I wouldn't expect any DE/OLB conversion to come in and start right away. I wouldn't expect any pick at #23 to come in and start right away. If those are your standards for the #23 pick, then don't use it on Barwin. But don't use it on Butler, Beatty, Gilbert, Tyson Jackson, Everette Brown and probably every other player. Mayo was the exception for the Pats, not the rule. He came in at a position of extreme need and was a particularly quick study.

I rate Barwin as a 1st rounder. If the Pats do, I would argue that they will have to take him at 23 or at best 34 to get him. If they don't, then they should be happy that he will push someone else down to them.

Again, I happen to be partial about Barwin, but I try to be impartial about his draft stock and what others think of him. Obviously, just like this board, some teams will fall in love with him and others will be leery of him.

 

[jays52]

Can someone who is constantly disparaging Barwin please, please, please name for me one better Jack conversion prospect in the draft? Then, could they validate their opinion with something other than a quote from a guy who knows as much about football as my Jack Russell? Disclaimer, I was not referring to Mayock.

 

[BelichickFan]

Can someone who is constantly disparaging Barwin please, please, please name for me one better Jack conversion prospect in the draft? Then, could they validate their opinion with something other than a quote from a guy who knows as much about football as my Jack Russell? Disclaimer, I was not referring to Mayock.

For me the question isn't whether or not Barwin is the best of the bunch - it's whether we should spend a #1 pick on a guy changing positions; and whether Belichick would be so inclined.

 

[sg14]

I do not claim to rate any player, I see players I like but have no way of ranking them. The players I like tend to go in the 5th round or so, they're all hustle as opposed to skilled.

I don't like to rank players by listings on web nor publications, they are all taken in with a grain of salt.

I do not find fault with any other ranking cuz who am I to say, I just try to read tea leaves.

Therefore by reading the leaves, English is on top of the BB board because of his comparisons to L. Woodley, and his absence from the visits is so noticable.

It's either English or a thousand other guys.

You have to give Box and others credit cuz they watche tape or whatever it is these days, me I'm too lazy. If I watched film, I'd have a cast of thousands to draft with no ranking.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Isn't that what bullies and liars do? Take cheap shots and then go running to the teacher when people stand up to them?

C'mon can we grow some skin?? Stop insulting eachother and discuss football.

 

[DaBruinz]

Exactly. Due to the big money involved, the Pats go for players who end up being good values as they play out their rookie deals. Barwin may very well turn out to be a great player in 3 years, and if so I hope the Pats snatch him up from whatever team wasted time/money developing him while he was playing on a rookie contract.

What big money are you talking about? Seriously. Do you even know what you are talking about? As the 10th overall pick, Mayo only stands to make 13.5 million over 5 years. Maybe a few mill more with escalators.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2008 Patriots Salary Cap Footnotes and Documentation Page

Maroney's deal was a 5 year deal worth 8.375 million as the 21st pick.

There is not "big money" involved unless you are talking about the top 5 players in the draft.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am very Anti-Barwin at #23. I wouldnt mind at #34 but definatly not at #23 reaching on a player just because he Might not be around when your next pick is up isnt smart. I would much rather take BPA at #23 than reaching at Barwin, And no Barwin wont be BPA at #23. #34..Maybe

I'd love to get him at #34, that said, I don't see any better prospective pass rusher who can also play well in space, is good against the run, and already has the size NE needs for the position in this draft. Yesterday patchick found the new updates NFL Draft Scout did on DE profiles - it isn't just my eyes telling me Barwin is a more well-rounded player than Orakpo, Ev Brown, Michael Johnson, Aaron Maybin, and Robert Ayers. You give something up to get something, I don't presume to know who BPA will be at #23, but out of the prospects we keep seeing projected to that point in the draft, I don't see any player who has the long term potential to keep this team in the running for an offseason berth each year. People who prefer an OT are welcome to their choice. If they want a CB, more power to them. I want a stronger pass rush and I don't want to give up the run game or coverage ability doing it, so I'll give up a few places in the draft to a "reach" to get the player I feel best matches that skillset. Until the draft rolls around I won't know if it's wiser to draft a falling Michael Crabtree - I do know it would be wiser to pass on a falling Everette Brown, Barwin is better against the run and has better potential in coverage.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Whether or not Barwin is drafted in the first, second or 3rd round, he is still one of my favorite pass rushers in this draft. There is a lot of unproven talent in this draft. Hell, everyone of them are until they go through a NFL training camp, make a roster and then some.

I'd be lying if I claimed I truly wanted him at 23. The player I covet most is Mr Everett Brown out of FSU but he will be long gone unless we trade up. I probably would rather have a inside LB at 23 and Barwin at 34 who I think will be there.

I will not be shocked by a Barwin draft of 23 though, being that BB loves players with versatility. DE,OLB,ILB and TE. 4 positions with probably ST's in his early future. I would not doubt if he could line up at safety if asked. That's about as versatile as you can ask for. He is still a strong possibility if you ask me to be the first Pat off the board.

 

[DaBruinz]

C'mon can we grow some skin?? Stop insulting eachother and discuss football.

Thanks for your 2 cents. Though it wasn't asked for.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Can someone who is constantly disparaging Barwin please, please, please name for me one better Jack conversion prospect in the draft? Then, could they validate their opinion with something other than a quote from a guy who knows as much about football as my Jack Russell? Disclaimer, I was not referring to Mayock.

Bet you 5 buck you will not get a response. If you do it had better be an intelligent one about what a Jack LB is in our defense and how Barwins abilities are not compatible with this conversion??

 

[maverick4]

Mr. Mayock needs a dose of reality. .

There we have it, the self proclaimed resident expert just dissed the best draft guy on the NFL

 

[DaBruinz]

It's only a big deal on this board based on the prior hyperbole gushing over Barwin's measurables without pads on, and interviews with reporters.

More lies from you. People have been excited about Barwin as a 2nd round pick since the middle of the football season. You'd know that if you weren't a "Johnny Come Lately" to the Draft board. Box has been high on him since then and I have liked Barwin since then as well after catching a couple of games and watching him in particular.

Its NOT just based on recent happenings, though they have helped to cement the idea, for me, that Barwin would be a better addition than English or any other of the DE to OLB converts.. And that Barwin at 34 would be fine. If the Pats take him at 23, its because they know he wouldn't last and felt that he offered the best value available.

 

[DaBruinz]

There we have it, the self proclaimed resident expert just dissed the best draft guy on the NFL

Would you just STFU with your lies? I've never proclaimed to be a draft expert. While it may be YOUR opinion that Mayock is the best draft guy in the NFL, I happen to disagree.

And that wasn't disrespecting him. That was me proclaiming MY opinion that Mayock isn't being fair regarding his saying that Barwin is 2-3 years away from being an effective 3-4 OLB since ALL the DE to OLB conversions are looking at the same time frame.