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Pioli's lousy drafts killing our roster/depth


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ahahahahahahahahh!!!!!!aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahhahahah! Dabruinz, no matter what you think of me, you are the biggest homer on this board. I have never seen you or deus call out this team for anything.

I've called out the team on plenty of occasions. Just because you are some lowlife noob troll who decided to poke his head out in the least 6 months doesn't mean I've never criticized the team.

You really should stop posting and proving to everyone just how ignorant you are.
 
Not to mention Kaczur is a starter too. Thats 5 starters in one draft...thats pretty good.
 
I agree but that's what happens when you pick between 28-32 of every round for a number of years.
 
Homer, I have Matt Cassel and F because he is horrible. Poor pocket presence, bad throws, poor reads and holds on to the ball way to long.

I gave the D an A ( even though the are sub-par), the running game an A and the coaching an A last night. Last nights win had little to nothing to do with Cassel, he stinks. He managed to get sacked a bunch of times, and not convert on the many chances he had in the red zone. He will never be anything more than a poor NFL starter.

Matt Cassel has been named the AFC offensive player of the week. You might want to rethink your statement.
 
Matt Cassel has been named the AFC offensive player of the week. You might want to rethink your statement.

As mentioned in many many previous posts, threads, and replies, add this guy to your ignore list.

Trust us.
 
You have an opinion. That doesn't make it VALID

This is very true. An opinion is not even necessarily an analysis or an argument. Sometimes it's just a silly or ignorant assertion. A wise person structures their opinions or conclusions as arguments though so that you have something to work with.

Even more important than validity, though, is soundness. An argument can have a valid form, but not be sound, for a number of reasons. Soundness is often confused with validity, though. So saying one's opinion is valid really isn't important, and is usually an equivocation - the speaker doesn't really know what they mean. It's far more important to develop sounds opinions than valid ones.

There are many arguments in this thread that are neither valid nor sound.
 
Answer waht question? I stated my opinion. I NEVER said it was FACT. So, therefore, I don't need facts to back up my *opinion*. If somebody says "Tom Brady is the best QB they ever saw", do they need facts to back it up? No, it's their opinion. It is my *opinion* that Pioli has been MEDIOCRE AT BEST drafting 2004-2007 and I listed every draft pick from those years with my grade and analysis. If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not here to argue with anyone that disagrees. I'm just stating my opinion and having a reasonable debate with those that agree and/or disagree. Nothing more, nothing less. It amazes me how so many of our fans get their panties in a bunch anytime somebody dare criticize the GREAT Scott Pioli. Sorry, but the guy needs to do better than he has been doing. He is blessed with TOM friggen BRADY and Bill Belichick as his QB and Head Coach. 1 Super Bowl appearance and 0 super bowl wins the last 3 years is not what I call GREAT. It's not good enough. Sorry, but I call it like I see it.

The problem with you is that your grade and analysis, while they are your opinions, are done in a vacuum. They have no frame of reference and therefore are worthless.

No matter how many times you sit there and claim this or that or the other, its worthless because you don't offer that frame of reference.

There is a difference between criticizing the actions of the Pats front office and being an offensive boob about it. YOU fall into the second category because you don't know football and you can't even provide a decent frame of reference as to how you developed your opinions.
 
A tried and true trolling tactic is that they stay away from the well-reasoned posts and only respond to the aggressive posts, and keep trolling those posters.

Don't feed the trolls guys.
 
The problem with you is that your grade and analysis, while they are your opinions, are done in a vacuum. They have no frame of reference and therefore are worthless.

No matter how many times you sit there and claim this or that or the other, its worthless because you don't offer that frame of reference.

There is a difference between criticizing the actions of the Pats front office and being an offensive boob about it. YOU fall into the second category because you don't know football and you can't even provide a decent frame of reference as to how you developed your opinions.

walter.jpg


"You have no frame of reference, Donnie"
 
The Patriots drafts in the early Pioli years were exceptional. Since then he's had some whiffs, but it's hardly been a disaster. You want to see a disaster? Look at the Detroit Lions' drafts. Look at the Bengals' drafts.

I don't know how anyone can say 2005 was a bad draft. 2005 was an outstanding draft. They got a Pro Bowl lineman with the last pick in the first round. They picked up two starters, Ellis Hobbs and Nick Kaczur, with late third-round picks. Neither of these guys are great players, but they were both starters on a 16-0 Super-bowl team. Hobbs, in case you haven't noticed, is also one of the best kickoff returners in the league.

James Sanders has been a good player for them. Matt Cassel isn't great, or even good, but he's a quarterback who won't lose the game for you and they got him at the end of the seventh round. There are franchises who've been looking for a non-disaster at that position in ANY round for a decade.

Seriously, think about it. If I were to tell you that you're going to get one Pro Bowler and four solid contributors from every draft, you wouldn't take that? Really? Most teams are lucky if they have three or four Pro Bowlers/impact players on their roster total. That's exactly how you win, you get a core of impact players and surround them with guys who can just do the job -- guys like Hobbs, Sanders, and Kaczur.

Any team that could pick up one impact player every year, and be sure of having them cost-controlled, would be a dynasty for sure. That's how you measure a good draft. One extra-base hit and four singles is a pretty good day at the park.

Okay, so let's look at 2006. Not their best effort for sure. But they got an excellent kicker in Gostkowski (not that it means that much, but if you had to vote right now, wouldn't he be the AFC Pro Bowl kicker?) and a solid second tight end in David Thomas. Then there's Ryan O'Callaghan. Callaghan started six games at right tackle as a rookie. Remember that game where the Patriots played against the vaunted Minnesota front line and basically didn't run it the whole game? They didn't give up any sacks that game, ran for over 5 yards per carry, and Callaghan was your starter. He started in the last regular-season game against the Giants last year and didn't give up any sacks to that vaunted front line either. Is he a star? no. Is he injured this year and therefore not helping? Yes. But he's a serviceable right tackle for a playoff team whom they got in the fifth round.

Now maybe the difference between where the Pats are now and where they were five years ago is that they used to get Dan Koppen in the late rounds, and now are getting Ryan O'Callaghan. But there are a lot of teams that would kill to get anyone at all who can play tackle beyond the third or fourth round.

And by the way, you're wrong about all of these draftees who aren't on the Pats anymore being out of the league. Justin Rogers is still playing for Dallas. Garrett Mills is on the Vikings. Kareem Brown is on the Jets. Corey Hilliard is on the Colts. Jeremy Mincey is on PUP with the Jaguars. Clint Oldenburg is on the Rams' practice squad.

I admit 2007 wasn't a good draft. And Chad Jackson was a major bust. And Marquise Hill looked like one even before he died. And maybe Maroney wasn't a good pick. We get it. But this team just came off a 16-win season and is in contention for its division with a backup quarterback. They've been hurt by some weakish drafts but so has everyone. Look at Tennessee. They whiffed on two top-10 picks in just the last few years and they're an undefeated team built almost entirely on home-grown talent. In fact from 2003 to 2006 their first-rounders were Andre Woolfolk, Ben Troupe, Pacman Jones and Vince Young. All wasted picks. That's the way the draft works -- it's a guessing game. Some teams guess a little better than others. You'd have to be crazy to say the Pats don't guess better than most, even now.
 
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I admit 2007 wasn't a good draft. And Chad Jackson was a major bust. And Marquise Hill looked like one even before he died. And maybe Maroney wasn't a good pick. We get it. But this team just came off a 16-win season and is in contention for its division with a backup quarterback. They've been hurt by some weakish drafts but so has everyone. Look at Tennessee. They whiffed on two top-10 picks in just the last few years and they're an undefeated team built almost entirely on home-grown talent. In fact from 2003 to 2006 their first-rounders were Andre Woolfolk, Ben Troupe, Pacman Jones and Vince Young. All wasted picks. That's the way the draft works -- it's a guessing game. Some teams guess a little better than others. You'd have to be crazy to say the Pats don't guess better than most, even now.

Just a point of information. Marquise Hill, while he didn't do much to our eyes on the field, was praised on numerous occasions by his teammates and by the coaching staff prior to the incident that took his life. The fact that the Pats had Seymour, Warren, and Green in front of Hill played a major part in him not seeing the field much.
 
Jets Lifer gives Cassel a big fat F

the NFL just named him player of the week

Jets Lifer calls everyone who disagrees with his idiotic, moronic,braindead takes "homers".

Jets Lifer has to be considered the biggest nitwit and undercover fraud "fan" to ever pollute these threads with his hatred and animosity, not only toward the team but its' fans as well.
 
Just a point of information. Marquise Hill, while he didn't do much to our eyes on the field, was praised on numerous occasions by his teammates and by the coaching staff prior to the incident that took his life. The fact that the Pats had Seymour, Warren, and Green in front of Hill played a major part in him not seeing the field much.

Since decent time has passed, I'll state that I watched M Hill play in his last season when Sey was out, and he was danced around by the opposing LT on passing downs. Could not defend his edge on runs. He was not a serviceable backup. He may have been the finest human being on the team but of that I have no way of knowing.

Ungeheuer makes several good points. I especially agree with his final paragraph. He should post more often.
 
Just a point of information. Marquise Hill, while he didn't do much to our eyes on the field, was praised on numerous occasions by his teammates and by the coaching staff prior to the incident that took his life. The fact that the Pats had Seymour, Warren, and Green in front of Hill played a major part in him not seeing the field much.

Sorry, but I think he was a bust as a player.

Wasn't Mike Wright playing ahead of him too?

He was well-regarded as a PERSON for continuing to work and trying to succeed. But I think he was on track to be a bust as a player.
 
Sorry, but I think he was a bust as a player.

Wasn't Mike Wright playing ahead of him too?

He was well-regarded as a PERSON for continuing to work and trying to succeed. But I think he was on track to be a bust as a player.

Wright was being used as a DE/NT hybrid (when Wilfork was out for a few games, it was Wright who took over for him).
 
I won't say that the draft results have been lousy lately (although they haven't been very good!) but what I worry/wonder about is why they haven't focused more on depth until the last possible second (like this year). There were plenty of linebacker options available... plenty of offensive line options...

I mean, in Bill We Trust and all that...but....why not take some gambles to improve your depth? It almost seems like they just take some guys just to cut them (look at last year's draft...only Meriweather stuck around).

I just hope they go back to getting solid depth, young guys groomed to take over from slacking veterans or who will be good trade bait.
 
Sorry, but I think he was a bust as a player.

Wasn't Mike Wright playing ahead of him too?

He was well-regarded as a PERSON for continuing to work and trying to succeed. But I think he was on track to be a bust as a player.

Mike Wright was playing NT and Special teams. Its why he was on the field. Hill didn't have any special teams.

As I said before, what we FANS think doesn't mean diddly. The coaches and players talked about Hill and such at practice long before the incident that took his life.

Hill was a project when he was drafted. He was the 2nd youngest player drafted that year. So, yes, he had maturity issues, but he still was effective during practice. And that is what counts.
 
Jets Lifer gives Cassel a big fat F

the NFL just named him player of the week

Jets Lifer calls everyone who disagrees with his idiotic, moronic,braindead takes "homers".

Jets Lifer has to be considered the biggest nitwit and undercover fraud "fan" to ever pollute these threads with his hatred and animosity, not only toward the team but its' fans as well.

Is this the same NFL you claim knows nothing when they do something you think is unfair towards the pats? The same dumb NFL that enforced spygate. Haha, it's to easy.

I'm attacked first most of the time, then I refer to people as homers or idiots ( after they insult me). Your rant sounds more how you act towards me, than how I acted towards you at first, homer. Check the history and look at your first post to me. Wrong again, bucko.

Keep crying, maybe someone will get you a tissue.
 
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I've called out the team on plenty of occasions. Just because you are some lowlife noob troll who decided to poke his head out in the least 6 months doesn't mean I've never criticized the team.

You really should stop posting and proving to everyone just how ignorant you are.

Show me some links dahomer.
 
I won't say that the draft results have been lousy lately (although they haven't been very good!) but what I worry/wonder about is why they haven't focused more on depth until the last possible second (like this year). There were plenty of linebacker options available... plenty of offensive line options...

I mean, in Bill We Trust and all that...but....why not take some gambles to improve your depth? It almost seems like they just take some guys just to cut them (look at last year's draft...only Meriweather stuck around).

I just hope they go back to getting solid depth, young guys groomed to take over from slacking veterans or who will be good trade bait.

The Patriots take the top rated value on their board. The problem with the 2007 draft is that it was going to be near impossible for a draft pick to make the team. Not only did they have picks coming back off the IR from the year before, but they had 4 compensatory picks that they couldn't trade.

You say that there were plenty of O-line options and LBer options previously. Please show me which ones, previously, would have succeeded in the Patriots system. Unfortunately, that will be an impossible task for you unless you have the ability to see alternate realities.

The fact remains that the Patriots, under Belichick and Pioli, do not use the scouting services that a majority of the other teams use. So, when we see these listings, they are just the best guesses of other people.

Yes, I have sat there scratching my head on draft day saying "HUH" on a few occasions. But on others, I've been able to say who the Pats would draft. I don't pretend to know more than the websites out there, though many of them assign players in their mocks based on best athlete available and not best value.

What's funny is that in the mock that we did this year in the Pats forum, I was the Tennessee GM. I picked Chris Johnson in the 2nd round for them and got reamed up one side and down the other... The real Titans went out and drafted the kid in the 1st round. But, I digress...
 
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