Fogbuster

Well, you are only talking about more recent history of Rev. Moon's life. His early years were marked by torture and imprisonment by Japanese authorities for his involvement with a Korean national movement when Korean was occupied by Japan from 1905 until its defeat in 1945. Then, after liberation from Japan, Korea was partitioned and the North became communist. Again, Rev. Moon was imprisoned, beaten, tortured, and then sent to a death camp at Heung Nam, until the UN forces liberated the city during the Korean War. And, of course, there was the infamous treatment he received from the U.S. government which imprisoned him for a trumped up tax case that forever changed how American clergy kept their bank accounts: no more "pastor's funds" accounts, as almost every pastor in America had up to that point, from Roman Catholic to Southern Baptist. The first time in my life I had ever been invited in to a RC Bishop's office in Boston was when I went to discuss Rev. Moon's case. Ditto for most everyone, from the Unitarians to the Episcopalians to the Methodists, and everybody in between. Some 30 churches and other legal entities joined to file an amicus curiae brief defending Rev. Moon during his trial.

The point is, Rev. Moon is not unlike most religious pioneers: he has received an intensely hostile reception by some religious leaders for the simple reason his has something new to say, and the entrenched establishment almost always has problems with new messages. See what St. Francis of Assisi went through, for example.

As for how this compares to Christ Jesus' life: Jesus came as the King of kings, was prepared and heralded by God, had wise men from the East attend his birth, was born to a people prepared for four thousand years to receive the Messiah, and then they call him a "blasphemer" (like being called a "cult" leader today) for saying he was the Son of God. Rev. Moon says Jesus called him to fulfill the mission of building God's Kingdom, and now he gets the same kind of treatment Jesus got, except instead of physical crucifixion he's gotten verbal crucifixion and character assassination. Meanwhile, he goes on about the business of building God's Kingdom through the enterprises you mention, plus more. We are living in the most exciting time in human history, a time of fundamental change in the world. God's will is coming to fruition! Just don't look for it on the evening news; it's coming "like a thief in the night" to most, although we should prepare ourselves with prayer and humility.



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Wotan_the_Wanderer

Indeed, I am though I'm not sure what recent really means when his sizable holding can be traced back to the '60s or '70s. As I've stated, I just found the term "hardship" a bit odd when referring to Sun Myung Moon. As far his earlier chapter in occupied and post-liberation Korea is concerned, I'm fairly sure his experience isn't all that extraordinary from other Koreans of his generation.

But if you wish to keep debating this, then perhaps you should begin a new post on the matter rather than taking it up here for it really doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this thread to get proselytize or deconstruct.

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Peter Sellers as Laurence Olivier as Richard III reciting "A Hard Day's Night"

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taltos

Born and raised a Catholic. Still practicing my faith. Fogbuster, this statement should take some heat off of you.

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The 9 most dangerous words in the English language are: I am from the government and I can help. Ronald Reagan

Fogbuster

This is not a "debate". Things are what they are. You either accept them or you don't, because the things in question never change. The only thing that ever changes is people's perception. Jesus is the Messiah of the first advent -- one either accepts this as fact or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who Jesus is. Rev. Moon is the Messiah of the second advent -- and one either accepts it or they don't; either way, it doesn't change who he is.


I didn't come here to "proselytize". The question of this thread was: "what do you believe?", and I answered. You chose to take issue about Rev. Moon's life, and I answered it. If you don't want people to answer your challenges, don't make them. If you don't want to learn from others about their beliefs, but only want to continue your own stereotypical, uninformed, and ignorant viewpoint, that's your choice; but don't chide me for setting you straight on the facts when you are, in fact, presenting a skewed, biased, and woefully incomplete picture of someone else.


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Fogbuster

So true. As someone once said: "That government which governs least is that government which governs best."

Of course, this doesn't mean anarchy is the answer, but in the end it is when people govern themselves properly that produces the greatest freedom and happiness for all.


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DarrylS

In a country whose constitution defines the separation of church and state, who defines what "people govern themselves properly", sounds like a religious and value laden overtone to me.

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In the last conversation Tillman had with Bauer, he told his agent, "You won't believe the letter I got from Bill Belichick.'' In the letter, Belichick praised him for his courage, his leadership, his willingness to set an example for people in this materialistic society, and he said it was an honor to be in the same league he'd been in. Peter King..

Wotan_the_Wanderer

LOL....look, there really was no need for the above. I questioned your presentation that Sun Myung Moon was suffering under some "hardship." OK? Move on and you really didn't need to write a tome in your replies nor was it necessary to go ballistic in the above. I'm sure I've been rather polite to you. Sheesh.

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gomezcat

Just to clarify, this IS a religious forum. Feel free to have a debate about religion, which is the whole point, but please keep it respectful and avoid personal attacks. Thanks.

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More nonsense to read:

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Wotan_the_Wanderer

I understood that this is a religious forum, but I thought this thread itself was about people introducing their political affiliations or lack thereof - something akin to a getting to know you sort of a thread. Appreciate the clarification though.

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Danish PATS Fan

What are your religious beliefs?

None !!!

Believe in The Patriots...they are my gods !!!

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18 - 1 arghhhhhhh why do we have to lose the most important game of them all ???
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