People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

[Greatest I am]

People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

Jesus put people above God and so should we. “Mark 2;27 And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

I think that the world would be a better place if people put their wants and needs as well as the wants and needs of other people above God’s.

I look at all the wealth that religions squander on themselves with huge churches and mosques, which are mostly empty, --- while many people still live in poverty and despair, --- and wonder if that wealth would be better spent on the poor. That would conform more to what Jesus taught us to do for the poor.

Governments seem to be of the same mindset as the religions as they spend lavishly on themselves while the poor go with their needs ignored.

I would think that religions would show the better mindset but that does not seem to be the case.

Before religions started thinking of God as a literal and real being, a more peaceful world, religiously speaking, home churches were the order of the day. Archeology has proven this. They were used as feeding stations for the poor and destitute and contributed more to the fellowship that people need more that the mega churches, temples and mosques that we have today.

Should we consider the benefits of the older ways and bring religion back into the homes where it’s expression and help for the poor can be better served?

Seems to me that the religious crave a personal relationship with their God, and that is best expressed from homes and not from the self-aggrandizing mega monstrosities and opulent churches and mosques that advertise their wasted wealth in our cities.

Does charity really begin at home, by putting people first and not God?

Regards
DL

 

[BobDigital]

Well if God does exist I think he/she is doing okay for themselves and doesn't need help from me

On a serious note I have a question and do not take this the wrong way. #1 How old are you? #2 Did you recently become a "full fledged" atheist in the past 2-3 years?

This is not about talking down to you or anything like that I am just wondering if this is new to you recently as far as your personal world view. IMO most new atheist go through a phase of being a bit pissed off at religion and that entire belief system cause they felt lied to and see others being lied to as well and feel they have to help them out.

 

[Greatest I am]

Well if God does exist I think he/she is doing okay for themselves and doesn't need help from me

On a serious note I have a question and do not take this the wrong way. #1 How old are you? #2 Did you recently become a "full fledged" atheist in the past 2-3 years?

This is not about talking down to you or anything like that I am just wondering if this is new to you recently as far as your personal world view. IMO most new atheist go through a phase of being a bit pissed off at religion and that entire belief system cause they felt lied to and see others being lied to as well and feel they have to help them out.

I am 66 and have generally always thought as I do. I label myself a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist and not an atheist.

To a Gnostic Christian, God is a man and not some supernatural sky daddy.

The religious have definitely been lied to and I see most atheist. as not so much pissed of because of the lies, but more as disappointed that good minds can be made to believe all kinds of supernatural garbage.

As to atheist wanting to help the deluded religious; I see that as a good trait and the way to show love for the deluded.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

For the evils of religions to grow, all good people need do is ignore the poor thinking of the delusional religious.

Regards
DL

 

[BobDigital]

I see where you are coming from. You know i use to think like that. That is not to say I "improve" or I "out grew" it but i simply changed my opinion.

While if people ask me about religion i certainly don't mind talking about it I don't try to go out of my way to talk to people about their religious views much anymore. I thought I was helping people and in a way I was but I found often it got me no where and me trying to explain to other people why they should not be religious only got me the response of why i should be.

I find going out of my way to talk to random people often got me no where but if i just didn't hide facts about myself and anyone was curious I could talk about it and let them ask questions if they liked.

Also btw I want to tell you that while it is fine to believe as you want I do have serious doubts the historical Jesus every exist (though if you want to claim a guy named Jesus existed at some point sure but the story on a whole even if he was not a god seems not very well substantiated to me).

Then again I have doubts the historical Muhammad existed as well. As well of course as the historical Moses.

 

[Greatest I am]

I see where you are coming from. You know i use to think like that. That is not to say I "improve" or I "out grew" it but i simply changed my opinion.

While if people ask me about religion i certainly don't mind talking about it I don't try to go out of my way to talk to people about their religious views much anymore. I thought I was helping people and in a way I was but I found often it got me no where and me trying to explain to other people why they should not be religious only got me the response of why i should be.

I find going out of my way to talk to random people often got me no where but if i just didn't hide facts about myself and anyone was curious I could talk about it and let them ask questions if they liked.

Also btw I want to tell you that while it is fine to believe as you want I do have serious doubts the historical Jesus every exist (though if you want to claim a guy named Jesus existed at some point sure but the story on a whole even if he was not a god seems not very well substantiated to me).

Then again I have doubts the historical Muhammad existed as well. As well of course as the historical Moses.

If any of those you mentioned existed, they were just men. Enlightened men perhaps but just men.

The fact that they all followed immoral genocidal Gods should have turned people off to them.

Why do you think people follow genocidal Gods and think them good?

Regards
DL

 

[BobDigital]

If any of those you mentioned existed, they were just men. Enlightened men perhaps but just men.

The fact that they all followed immoral genocidal Gods should have turned people off to them.

Why do you think people follow genocidal Gods and think them good?

Regards
DL

Cause they do good things as well. Assuming you believe the stories any good or bad thing that happens happens because of god. The ol' "the lord givith and the lord takith away"

Because of that is is easy to dismiss the bad thing god does or just say we don't understand his ways and focus on the good things.

However to be more direct I will say this. God needs to be partly bad cause the world is partly bad. A god that only loves us and wants us to experience nothing but good things can not be explained so we needs to allow or do bad things and then it is up to those who create the god to fill in some justification. Also though earth is a mixed bag Heaven is fantastic and the big selling point.

Also Religion and God offers people what they want most which is an afterlife that is amazing. Given that carrot they likely will not try to question too much.

 

[Greatest I am]

Cause they do good things as well. Assuming you believe the stories any good or bad thing that happens happens because of god. The ol' "the lord givith and the lord takith away"

Because of that is is easy to dismiss the bad thing god does or just say we don't understand his ways and focus on the good things.

However to be more direct I will say this. God needs to be partly bad cause the world is partly bad. A god that only loves us and wants us to experience nothing but good things can not be explained so we needs to allow or do bad things and then it is up to those who create the god to fill in some justification. Also though earth is a mixed bag Heaven is fantastic and the big selling point.

Also Religion and God offers people what they want most which is an afterlife that is amazing. Given that carrot they likely will not try to question too much.

"God needs to be partly bad cause the world is partly bad."

Genocidal, to me, is more than partly bad. That aside.

From what you say, if I read you right, believers have sold their moral souls to a satanic God in the hope of reaching heaven.

Rather a strange and immoral situation. No?

Do you really think theists to be that foolish or deluded?

Regards
DL

 

[BobDigital]

"God needs to be partly bad cause the world is partly bad."

Genocidal, to me, is more than partly bad. That aside.

From what you say, if I read you right, believers have sold their moral souls to a satanic God in the hope of reaching heaven.

Rather a strange and immoral situation. No?

Do you really think theists to be that foolish or deluded?

Regards
DL

I would not say foolish or deluded. I would say they are scared though and when scared it is easy to not question things deeply when something can make you not scared anymore.

 

[Greatest I am]

I would not say foolish or deluded. I would say they are scared though and when scared it is easy to not question things deeply when something can make you not scared anymore.

I see believing lies for their comfort as delusional.

This condition is quite close to the Stockholm Syndrome and I think it fits well with how delusion is described.

Let's agree to disagree though as I do not want to get into a conversation of semantics and the meaning of words.

We both agree that whatever we call it, it is not good for a mind.

Regards
DL