Zero Identity

[long distance]

There is one important question each HC would like an answer to - What/Who we are as a team?
With half of the regular season almost gone the answer in NE might be foggier than it was before week 1.

I cant recall a BB team with less identity than this one. Nothing seems to be clear atm.
It was driving in this direction throughout preseason and it got worse:
No clear QB play or starter.
No clear running game (tried move towards zone halfway returning to gap) despite monster Mondre.
No clear offensive vision/strategy/personnel. ($30M TE combo is hardly existent with lazy 11 personnel the norm)
No clear offensive coaching leadership.
No OL depth with both starting tackles playing flag football.
No clear D personnel or identity despite some success
- corners are moved all over the place w best graded CB in the league & the only true pats man corner Jack getting 50% of the snaps or less - WTF?
Cant remember seeing CB marry-go-round like this under BB. Its hard to find continuity as a player let alone as a group.
Not to mention practice squad Bryant acting like starting NFL corner LOL. At least the Bryant starting punt returner experiment seems to be over..
- the only LB that can cover plays 10% while the two thumping LBs cant stop designed QB runs if their life depended on it. And the biggest future division rival is the best in the league at it.
It doesn't matter if you stop RB with this personnel. Half decent QB will eat you alive with all Bentley, Tavai and Bryant on the field at the same time.

All this (and more) with relatively healthy team.
The only unit that suffered significant injury was ST and it showed.

3-4 and the firm bottom of division is least of a problem.
It doesn't help though esp. since its done on the easiest of schedules - with much stronger schedule looming.

I didn't care much about results this year. What i expected/wanted was to see foundations built for a team that will emerge in 2023 (draft hits + big cap).
Instead of confirmation of Mac leadership Pats are entering QB questions with Mac losing confidence and poise.
Where will the rest of leadership come from after DMC, Slater are gone? Who are the young emerging leaders? I love Dugger but dont see it there..
Who will install clear identity to the offence and lead it?
It all seems quite dysfunctional atm and counterproductive at times as well which is the last thing i would expect from BB.
They Drafted speed (“we want to get faster“) - they play snail personnel.


It will be interesting to see how BB handles the situation, can he still build some foundations for the future till the end of the season so that he can make the most of all the cap he will have in the next seasons.


There's still plenty to be optimistic/excited about for the future - incl QB - but without identity it will be that much harder.

-.-



ps
most of this was writing itself from week1 and is not a reaction to MNF...

 

[NG Pats Fan]

There is one important question each HC would like an answer to - What/Who we are as a team?
With half of the regular season almost gone the answer in NE might be foggier than it was before week 1.

I cant recall a BB team with less identity than this one. Nothing seems to be clear atm. It was driving in this direction throughout preseason and it got worse.
No clear QB play or starter.
No clear running game (tried move towards zone halfway returning to gap) despite monster Mondre.
No clear offensive vision/strategy/personnel. ($30M TE combo is hardly existent with lazy 11 personnel the norm)
No clear offensive coaching leadership.
No OL depth with both starting tackles playing flag football.
No clear D personnel or identity despite some success
- corners are moved all over the place with best graded CB in the league and the only true pats man corner Jack getting 50% of the snaps or less - WTF?
Cant remember seeing CB marry-go-round like this under BB. Its hard to find continuity as a player let alone as a group.
Not to mention practice squad Bryant acting like starting NFL corner LOL. At least the Bryant starting punter experiment seems to be over..
- the only LB that can cover plays 10% while the two thumping LBs cant stop designed QB runs if their life depended on it. And the biggest future division rival is the best in the league at it.
It doesn't matter if you stop RB with this personnel. Half decent QB will eat you alive with all Bentley, Tavai and Bryant on the field at the same time.

All this (and more) with relatively healthy team.
The only unit that suffered significant injury was ST and it showed.

3-4 and the firm bottom of division is least of a problem. It doesn't help esp. since its done on the easiest of schedules - with much stronger schedule looming.

I didn't care too much about results this year. What i expected and wanted is to see foundations built for a new team that will emerge in 2023 (draft hits + big cap).
Instead of confirmation of Mac leadership Pats are entering QB questions with Mac losing confidence and poise.
Where will the rest of leadership come from after DMC, Slater are gone? Who are the young emerging leaders? I love Dugger but dont see it there..
Who will install clear identity to the offence and lead it?
It all seems quite dysfunctional atm and counterproductive at times as well which is the last thing i would expect from BB.
They Drafted speed (“we want to get faster“) - they play snail personnel.


It will be interesting to see how BB handles the situation, can he still build some foundations for the future till the end of the season so that he can make the most of all the cap he will have in the next seasons.


There's still plenty to be optimistic/excited about for the future - incl QB - but without identity it will be that much harder.

I agree

 

[archstanton543]

They have an identity. They can run the ball (last night notwithstanding). They have extremely suspect QB play (due to lack of talent or bad coaching or both). They can't stop mobile QB's in a league full of them now (a problem they decided not to address this past off season...I saw Cole Strange get steamrolled more than once last night, just saying).

They're record says who they are a mediocre to bad team. It is what it is.

 

[varjao]

BB wont change his methods but this thing about not naming the official OC, or DC (I think Flores never got the title) sucks. This is something the NFL could stick their fingers in and I wouldn't bother. New rule, name your ****ing coaches before the season d%#*!@t.

 

[oldrover]

There is one important question each HC would like an answer to - What/Who we are as a team?
With half of the regular season almost gone the answer in NE might be foggier than it was before week 1.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Their identity has been the last two years as front runners. They have to establish the run game to set up the play action pass to freeze LB's as they can't pass straight up out of the shotgun. D has to play well enough to hold the other team down. If they can't run the ball and are behind, they are dead to rights.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

There is one important question each HC would like an answer to - What/Who we are as a team?
With half of the regular season almost gone the answer in NE might be foggier than it was before week 1.

I cant recall a BB team with less identity than this one. Nothing seems to be clear atm.
It was driving in this direction throughout preseason and it got worse:
No clear QB play or starter.
No clear running game (tried move towards zone halfway returning to gap) despite monster Mondre.
No clear offensive vision/strategy/personnel. ($30M TE combo is hardly existent with lazy 11 personnel the norm)
No clear offensive coaching leadership.
No OL depth with both starting tackles playing flag football.
No clear D personnel or identity despite some success
- corners are moved all over the place w best graded CB in the league & the only true pats man corner Jack getting 50% of the snaps or less - WTF?
Cant remember seeing CB marry-go-round like this under BB. Its hard to find continuity as a player let alone as a group.
Not to mention practice squad Bryant acting like starting NFL corner LOL. At least the Bryant starting punter experiment seems to be over..
- the only LB that can cover plays 10% while the two thumping LBs cant stop designed QB runs if their life depended on it. And the biggest future division rival is the best in the league at it.
It doesn't matter if you stop RB with this personnel. Half decent QB will eat you alive with all Bentley, Tavai and Bryant on the field at the same time.

All this (and more) with relatively healthy team.
The only unit that suffered significant injury was ST and it showed.

100000% agree, one of the best posts i've read about the current situation so far

3-4 and the firm bottom of division is least of a problem.
It doesn't help though esp. since its done on the easiest of schedules - with much stronger schedule looming.

I didn't care much about results this year. What i expected/wanted was to see foundations built for a team that will emerge in 2023 (draft hits + big cap).
Instead of confirmation of Mac leadership Pats are entering QB questions with Mac losing confidence and poise.
Where will the rest of leadership come from after DMC, Slater are gone? Who are the young emerging leaders? I love Dugger but dont see it there..
Who will install clear identity to the offence and lead it?
It all seems quite dysfunctional atm and counterproductive at times as well which is the last thing i would expect from BB.
They Drafted speed (“we want to get faster“) - they play snail personnel.

My biggest issue right now is
What is BB's plan here?
We are in the third year of a rebuild (if we count the Newton era)
We still lack talent all over the field. I mean like every position except safety
I don't believe Mac is the answer at all, obv it's way too early to judge Zappe
We could use a new OT and C at least bc Wynn and Andrews aren't good enough. Also i am skeptical about Brown if they implement more zone stuff. We have Brown and Onwenu who are clear more suited for gap schemes to me, than we have andrews and strange who could excel in zone blocking schemes, where do we want to go moving forward? Brown at LT is lost on outside zone runs, way too slow to get out to his assignment
We can't use our TE or are they just not so good? This Position needs to be revaluated next season

On the defense we can say we need at least a starting caliber DT, two LB, maybe DE
Safety and CB seem to me as the only promising groups right now.

It will be interesting to see how BB handles the situation, can he still build some foundations for the future till the end of the season so that he can make the most of all the cap he will have in the next seasons.


There's still plenty to be optimistic/excited about for the future - incl QB - but without identity it will be that much harder.

-.-



ps
most of this was writing itself from week1 and is not a reaction to MNF...

 

[borg]

Disagree....
The team's identity has a name:

The Bill Belichick Schitt Show

His players
His Friends & Family coaching staff
His game plans
His in-game decisions

 

[NG Pats Fan]

100000% agree, one of the best posts i've read about the current situation so far

My biggest issue right now is
What is BB's plan here?
We are in the third year of a rebuild (if we count the Newton era)
We still lack talent all over the field. I mean like every position except safety
I don't believe Mac is the answer at all, obv it's way too early to judge Zappe
We could use a new OT and C at least bc Wynn and Andrews aren't good enough. Also i am skeptical about Brown if they implement more zone stuff. We have Brown and Onwenu who are clear more suited for gap schemes to me, than we have andrews and strange who could excel in zone blocking schemes, where do we want to go moving forward? Brown at LT is lost on outside zone runs, way too slow to get out to his assignment
We can't use our TE or are they just not so good? This Position needs to be revaluated next season

On the defense we can say we need at least a starting caliber DT, two LB, maybe DE
Safety and CB seem to me as the only promising groups right now.

Talent does seem to be an issue. We seem to have a lot of role players on offense, but no game changers. We could use a few all pro talents in premium positions. I’m hoping Thornton is that guy, but we didn’t use him well at all yesterday

 

[rogerthat]

I wouldn't say that we lack talent all over the field but I would say we don't have enough talented players. We have some good building blocks, though. Stevenson, Strange, Thornton, Jones, Barmore, Dugger, possibly Zappe.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I wouldn't say that we lack talent all over the field but I would say we don't have enough talented players. We have some good building blocks, though. Stevenson, Strange, Thornton, Jones, Barmore, Dugger, possibly Zappe.

Yes, how many of our offensive players would make the pro bowl? I agree we need a few high upside players. Game changers

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Talent does seem to be an issue. We seem to have a lot of role players on offense, but no game changers. We could use a few all pro talents in premium positions. I’m hoping Thornton is that guy, but we didn’t use him well at all yesterday

neither Mac nor Zappe have shown deep throw accuracy but we also don't call these plays often is my guess

i am more concerned about role players on defense tbh. The complete LB corp play like backup linebacker but not starter quality. Upfront we have Judon, Wise and Barmore. We could certainly address the D-Line via draft imo. Next years draft is loaded with front 7 players i read.

 

[RIpats88]

We replaced all our coaches with either family members of Bill or failures like Joe Judge and Matt Patricia who the Patriots can pay peanuts because they are getting paid by their former teams. That's the issue. Bill didn't name an OC all summer. Instead of bringing in fresh minds we get guys who got fired from the Giants (who are 5-1 without him with the same roster) and a DC who got fired from Detroit after losing the locker room. Neither of which have good experience calling offensive plays or coaching a QB.

Look how different the team looked with McDaniels last year. The personnel is better than it was last year. So what changed? It's clear only one thing changed....

If we hired a real OC and DC we may look different

 

[AQPE]

A bridge, at twilight

 

[TheRainMaker]

I wouldn't say that we lack talent all over the field but I would say we don't have enough talented players. We have some good building blocks, though. Stevenson, Strange, Thornton, Jones, Barmore, Dugger, possibly Zappe.

I would say they don't have any building blocks aside from Judon. The players you mentioned are complimentary players at this point. It could change, but they haven't made enough of an impact to put them in that category.

Building blocks were Brady, Seymour, Wilfork, Mankins, Gronk, Hernandez, Chandler Jones, HT, Mayo, Jamie Collins and Asante Samuel for a couple years.

 

[Toofy]

Talent does seem to be an issue. We seem to have a lot of role players on offense, but no game changers. We could use a few all pro talents in premium positions. I’m hoping Thornton is that guy, but we didn’t use him well at all yesterday

Come on .. Parker, Thornton and Meyers are more than enough for offensive talent.


The Oline truly underperformed yesterday and defense Gave up so many plays that we could no longer do runs .

I think we have talent, we just are not playing right horses for courses. Mack Wilson and mcmillan should have more snaps compared to Tavai

Same is the case with Shaun wade and Bledsoe over Myles Bryant and mccourty.


Mac is not 100% and he just got antsy looking at zappe performance. Tbh he was put in a position of failure .

It's all unfortunate things that happened at a single time. It can't get worse than this. So that's the better part .

I want Mac Jones to start the next 2-3 games not because zappe underperformed , but to rally the team and then have open competition with Zappe if the season goes for a toss. We are not drafting a QB next year and we have seen how veteran QB experiments have happened .

Put your QB in position of success and it will come. Look at tannehill , hurts and tua for reference .

Even Trevor Lawrence is not lighting it up.

The most important thing is get some real hardedened NFL Coaches and possibly a QB coach that can infuse confidence to both zappe and Mac.

And stop the trade for Mac and zappe . We need decent backups and fallback plan. Consider what happened to chargers when they gave up on brees so early .


The most important thing now is to not lose locker room . Wynn, Bourne, Mac now.. tbh I do not think we can absolve bill and Co of the issues we see.

What if all the issuesthat we see, are due to coaching attitude ? I donno. Bill is the greatest coach but is there something which is causing trust issues across all players.

Next year the last of the old guard Jonathan Jones, Andrews, slater and mcCourty will retire or be phased out . So how will Bill find a marshall to rally the troops when the QB is feeling insecure .

 

[long distance]

100000% agree, one of the best posts i've read about the current situation so far

My biggest issue right now is
What is BB's plan here?
We are in the third year of a rebuild (if we count the Newton era)
We still lack talent all over the field. I mean like every position except safety
I don't believe Mac is the answer at all, obv it's way too early to judge Zappe
We could use a new OT and C at least bc Wynn and Andrews aren't good enough. Also i am skeptical about Brown if they implement more zone stuff. We have Brown and Onwenu who are clear more suited for gap schemes to me, than we have andrews and strange who could excel in zone blocking schemes, where do we want to go moving forward? Brown at LT is lost on outside zone runs, way too slow to get out to his assignment
We can't use our TE or are they just not so good? This Position needs to be revaluated next season

On the defense we can say we need at least a starting caliber DT, two LB, maybe DE
Safety and CB seem to me as the only promising groups right now.

It seems im the optimist here : )

I think “too early to judge“ has to go for both QBs.
Mac was good last year, obviously struggled with this strange offensive transition but he found his way through adversity & doubt before so everything is still in play for him.
Looks like they can both play in NFL and lead their teams. One question is can they both stay in NE after this season.
In the end they might have one starter and one trade asset (close to Jimmy G capacity).
This may be optimistic but imo within reality.

The cap Pats will have over the next 2+ seasons can buy you a whole new team . especially the way Bill does business . so im not too worried about talent (and there will always be a big gap between fans and Bill regarding talent “evaluation“
What i dont see at the moment are the foundations to attach new talent to - system of play, clear coaching leadership besides BB, future leadership on the field etc. -
That doesn't mean they don't exist - they're just not tangible for the outside eye.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Their identity has been the last two years as front runners. They have to establish the run game to set up the play action pass to freeze LB's as they can't pass straight up out of the shotgun. D has to play well enough to hold the other team down. If they can't run the ball and are behind, they are dead to rights.

It's that when they get behind, they abandon the run. Neither Curtis Martin nor any other back can gain any yards without the ball.

The offensive coaches - and this includes McDaniels - panic and put their own team at a disadvantage when the score isn't in their favor, even though there's plenty of time left in the game.

Star players can compensate for poor coaching, but poor coaching can sabotage an otherwise capable if not star-studded team.

 

[203Pat]

This is about a big a mess as we have seen in the BB era. This "rebuild" has been all over the place. Between the Gilmore and Thunk situation in 2020 and going "all in" in 2021 free agency only to come away with Judon as the only major contributor and now a strange game of musical chairs at the most important position on the team. After Monday night Bill comes off as indecisive and has bungled the QB situation. Mac's confidence was probably a bit shaky with how well Zappe was playing and even if it was the plan to play two QBs (which I don't believe it was) why pull Mac after that pick and make him look like he got benched? If he was going to ride the hot hand then why not start Zappe? Why force him to come in and be the hero down 10 in primetime against a team the defense couldn't stop? I don’t think either QB is suited to play from behind but a rookie 4th rounder getting thrown in early in the second quarter there is a lot that can go wrong and it did.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

This is about a big a mess as we have seen in the BB era. This "rebuild" has been all over the place. Between the Gilmore and Thunk situation in 2020 and going "all in" in 2021 free agency only to come away with Judon as the only major contributor and now a strange game of musical chairs at the most important position on the team. After Monday night Bill comes off as indecisive and has bungled the QB situation. Mac's confidence was probably a bit shaky with how well Zappe was playing and even if it was the plan to play two QBs (which I don't believe it was) why pull Mac after that pick and make him look like he got benched? If he was going to ride the hot hand then why not start Zappe? Why force him to come in and be the hero down 10 in primetime against a team the defense couldn't stop? I don’t think either QB is suited to play from behind but a rookie 4th rounder getting thrown in early in the second quarter there is a lot that can go wrong and it did.

Bill was obviously lying

Anyway we've become the dysfunctional teams we make fun of

I know the Brady belichick debate has been pounded into the ground, but again, people underestimated how much stability Brady gave this organization. Because the reality is belichick has done stuff like this in the past, it just never matters when you had the franchise QB who never got hurt, was consistently great, and was a great leader.

At this point I'm not even stunned.