Zappe vs Mac

[Actual Pats Fan]

If the roles were reversed, the odds are that Mac Jones would not be playing as well as Zappe.

BZ is a natural. Jones is a well tutored journey man.

It's definitely early, but...

 

[venecol]

 

[Salsalife]

Has Mac been Medically cleared yet from the Patriot Doctors?

 

[Tunescribe]

OK but you and Ken won't complain when Bailey hoists our seventh Lombardi trophy right?

Of course not. Whoever BB taps to get the job done I'm onboard with.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I keep telling you guys. High ankle sprains were created in a labratory somewhere to torture fantasy football owners with gametime decisions. This is what they do. Don't get invested in any report on the guy until kickoff.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I'm surprised at the usage of stats trying to help Mac's case. The arguments about poor line play and longer developing plays etc are ignoring that Mac was plain bad. I said right from the beginning that the playcalls didn't seem that bad from Patricia and Mac was making it hard to truly judge him as a coordinator. Then many want to take away from Zappe's easy passes. Those same easy passes are the ones Mac was missing. There are stills floating around of Lil Jordan Humprey uncovered etc. Mac throwing into double coverage to Jonu Smith while the goto wr, Meyers, is uncovered. Then the careless interceptions. Mac was LUCKY to beat the Steelers after throwing a ball directly to them and a horrible fumble by Gunner.

It feels wrong to not ride the hot hand in Zappe who is playing like a vet. Mac feels like the rookie. He reminds me so much of early Peyton Manning with the happy feet and GREEDY shots to Parker. I do think Mac will be better than Zappe in the long run but I don't want to experience Mac's growing pains when we may ALREADY be fighting for our playoff lives. I think either one can beat the Bears but I think it is important to make the right decision against the Jets who are quietly winning. I'd roll with Zappe at this point in time until he actually has a bad game and then evaluate from there.

 

[venecol]

Great article quoting Zappe's former HC & OC. Some great stories about Zappe here. It's what all of us that are excited about this kid have seen. Too bad the blind homers don't see it.

Patriots’ Mac Jones suddenly has real QB competition from Bailey Zappe

It is easy to understand why Mac Jones is so eager to get back in the saddle Monday night against the Bears.

nypost.com

 

[venecol]

From the article in #427 above:

"He plays the game …I don’t know, I think kind of like Brett Favre. You know how Brett Favre would get mad at the defense and say something to ’em, he was not intimidated in the least by anything going on in that field, Bailey was that way,” Helton said. “Bailey didn’t mind flipping the switch if something happened with a defensive player that he didn’t like. He was gonna let him know it, he was gonna let him have it. Many times I had an official come over to me and be like, ‘Coach, you gotta tell your quarterback not to say that to the defense.’ ”

Asked for an example, Helton said: “We go so fast with our tempo, that a lot of times defenses would try to slow us down by faking injuries. And if you were a fan in the stands, you would see Bailey like walk over to the defender, and it would look like he’s going to check on him, like he would lean over, and like you’d see him tapping his helmet, and you would think to yourself, ‘He’s telling that guy, hey man, how you doing, are you OK?’, that kind of thing. But what he’s really saying is, ‘Hey get your butt up, we all know you’re faking it. You’re slowing me down.’ ”

Lol

 

[venecol]

From same article:

Kittley recalls how Zappe suffered a high ankle sprain in 2019 against Texas Wesleyan, was limited and hobbled in practice before throwing for 513 yards and five TDs in a 53-52 upset of South Dakota.

“A big part of his strength is his mental capacity, and the way he can see the game, and the way I run my offense I put a lot on the quarterback, let those guys have a lot of leeway, the ability to check plays at the line of scrimmage and some of that stuff, and he really flourished in being able to do that,” Kittley said.

Zappe topped all quarterbacks with a 35 Wonderlic score.

 

[venecol]

Same article:

“It doesn’t matter if he’s running Air Raid or Run-n-Shoot or pro style or West Coast, he can function and excel at a high level,” Helton said.

Helton cites one particular throw against Appalachian State.

“We had an RPO on, and he hit the boundary X receiver on like a skinny post that takes tremendous timing,” Helton recalled. “And the safety had come down but not very low, and he put the ball on the back shoulder of the safety, and threw it before the X had even made the break on the post portion of it. And the safety thought, ‘Well I’m gonna get a nice easy pick,’ and all of a sudden that X crosses his face on the back side, and he’s off and running for a touchdown.

“Well, that’s an NFL throw if there’s ever an NFL throw. I think that throw right there showed the NFL scouts and GMs that, OK, yeah, this kid has the anticipation, this kid understands what is going to happen before the ball’s ever snapped. And I think that kind of put an exclamation point on all the body of work that he had done over the season that says, OK, he has full command of the passing game when it’s time to throw the football.”

Patriots’ Mac Jones suddenly has real QB competition from Bailey Zappe

It is easy to understand why Mac Jones is so eager to get back in the saddle Monday night against the Bears.

nypost.com

 

[venecol]

From article:

Kittley describes Zappe as a tough, blue-collar kid who loves the game. Helton describes him as genuine and laid back.

“Within the first week of the program, our [Western Kentucky strength coach there [Jason Veltkamp] came in and said, ‘This guy’s already set a new standard of what it’s supposed to look like in the weight room,’ ” Kittley said. “He’s not a yell-and-scream-at-you kind of leader, he does lead by example, but also he’s more of the guy that wants to come up to you and talk you through things maybe if someone makes a mistake instead of ripping you or blaming somebody. He’s more of your positive leader.”

I like this kid.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

From article:

Kittley describes Zappe as a tough, blue-collar kid who loves the game. Helton describes him as genuine and laid back.

“Within the first week of the program, our [Western Kentucky strength coach there [Jason Veltkamp] came in and said, ‘This guy’s already set a new standard of what it’s supposed to look like in the weight room,’ ” Kittley said. “He’s not a yell-and-scream-at-you kind of leader, he does lead by example, but also he’s more of the guy that wants to come up to you and talk you through things maybe if someone makes a mistake instead of ripping you or blaming somebody. He’s more of your positive leader.”

I like this kid.

I like him too.

But stories like "this guy's already set a new standard" is enhancing things, or Western Kentucky's standard was awful. Or he made this one throw that showed NFL scouts ...... That is all story telling by a past coach.

 

[venecol]

I get it. We have a bunch of St. Thomases in the forum. Cool.

Belichick on Zappe after DET:

“Bailey made a lot of good decisions,” the Patriots head coach said during his postgame press conference. “Was accurate with the ball. Thought he showed some poise there in some pressure situations where he got out of it and found an open receiver, made good decisions.”

“He does a good job of seeing the game and can come off and identify and articulate what he saw, what happened — and that’s usually right,” Belichick said. “What he saw is usually what I saw or, maybe, when you look at the film, maybe there’s something that’s a little gray in there, his explanation is actually good. It was the way he saw it. Maybe he might not have done the right thing, but he saw the game.

Belichick on Zappe after CLE:

“He learns every day, whether it’s practice, or meetings, or game experiences. He has pretty good instincts, but there is a lot for him to learn. There are things today that he learned from and he was able to take advantage of and make a couple plays. He had the opportunity. Again, it’s all performance. It’s not turning the ball over or a strip sack. It’s a good thing. We just had trouble obviously with Myles Garrett. We tried to double him as much as we could and he still got us.”

Former coaches on Zappe:

“A big part of his strength is his mental capacity, and the way he can see the game, and the way I run my offense I put a lot on the quarterback, let those guys have a lot of leeway, the ability to check plays at the line of scrimmage and some of that stuff, and he really flourished in being able to do that,” Kittley said.

“And then he also makes coaches feel very comfortable. A coach feels like, ‘OK, this person knows what he’s doing.’ I think he puts coaches at ease that says, ‘Hey, we’ve given the guy the keys to the Ferrari, and he knows how to drive it.’ ”

Sorry guys, but they're all saying the same thing: kid has poise, he sees the game, has instincts.

Wonderlic score of 35. Brady was 33. Good night.

Patriots’ Mac Jones suddenly has real QB competition from Bailey Zappe

It is easy to understand why Mac Jones is so eager to get back in the saddle Monday night against the Bears.

nypost.com

 

[patsfan7983]

Wonderlic score of 35. Brady was 33. Good night.

Wonderlic score of Blaine Gabbert was 42. Dan Marino 15. Brett Favre 22.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Justin Jones, who has two sacks this year for 2-4 Chicago, said Mac Jones "throws off of his back foot whenever there is pressure. ... gets confused ... (and) throws the game away, in my opinion.''

Patriots QB Mac Jones 'Kryptonite Weaknesses Will Be Exposed!' Predicts Bears Player

Mac Jones "does have a kryptonite we are going to expose,'' boasts Chicago defensive lineman Justin Jones as the Patriots prep for the Bears.

www.si.com

What he said was obvious, just wondering what opposing DC think of Mac and how they plan on attacking him.
Gets confused part gets me.

 

[catent]

I went back and watched Jones' snaps against Baltimore. Perhaps because the team was playing from behind, I wasn't appreciating what he was doing. He had some elite-level plays in the 1st half. Unfortunately he wasn't consistent and demonstrated some of the problematic traits we've seen too often in the 2nd half.

I really get the sense it's mental with Jones. When he's relaxed, calm, and in rhythm, he can throw the ball exceptionally well and be on-par with the best passers in the league, especially throwing the ball downfield. You could see a sort of hybrid between Brees/Peyton (I know people compare Jones to Brady a lot but I don't see it).

When Jones gets thrown off, faces some adversity, gets disrupted, that's when the bad habits come out: skittish in the pocket, dropping his eyes, bad timing/mechanics, throwing off the back foot, missing underneath defenders, poor decision making. Speculating here, but I expect Jones is probably better at practice than during live games right now, because he can be completely at ease during practice without the pressure of a live game. I sorta get the sense he has flashed more potential behind closed doors than we've seen in live games.

Combine Jones' upside/potential, along with his obvious conscientiousness, I can understand why the team would give him the opportunity to continue to start. I do believe, though, if you asked BB after giving a truth serum, he'd say Zappe has played better in games and led to winning football. But, the given the aforementioned circumstances - along with the fact Jones is still a 2nd year player - means it makes sense to continue to give Jones the opportunity to play and see if he can figure it out.

That said, 4-5 weeks ago the team likely believed they would have real trouble winning many games without Jones under center. Now they have confidence that the guy behind Jones not only will not lose them games, but can win them in his own right. If Jones continues to turn the ball (his most direct contribution to the losses), he won't start for much longer. While I believe BB is in this for the long-haul (another 4-6 seasons), make no mistake that he wants to catch Shula and he needs to start wracking them up now; if he feels Jones is losing them games, he won't play him much longer.

Will Jones figure it out? I don't know. When it comes to mental stuff, self-assuredness, ability to focus and sharpen during times of adversity, it seems some guys have it and others don't ... but it's not fair to write him off at this point. To my eye, Zappe doesn't appear to have the same issues with consistency (mental or otherwise); he's looked tremendously steady from snap-to-snap, and remarkably mature in every sense.

Hopefully this is a win-win for the team. If you get maximum potential Jones, the offense could be explosive and very productive - high ceiling. If you get inconsistent, turnover-prone Jones, you have Zappe ready to step in and lead the team forward with confidence.

 

[upstater1]

I like him too.

But stories like "this guy's already set a new standard" is enhancing things, or Western Kentucky's standard was awful. Or he made this one throw that showed NFL scouts ...... That is all story telling by a past coach.

But his former coach at Houston baptist thinks he's got the right stuff

 

[catent]

If we’re chastising folks for shooting down Jones, because after all, “we’re all on the same team here”, why are we tolerating people doing the same to Zappe?

Zappe performs the way he did, people get rightfully and justifiably excited, and then others tell us he isn’t that great, qualify/undermine/downplay his performance, do stuff like make comments belittling former coaches praising him, etc.

This stuff goes both ways. I think there are very few who actually have goodwill towards both equally - most prefer one guy, which is human nature I suppose, especially when only one can play at a time.

 

[Tunescribe]

If we’re chastising folks for shooting down Jones, because after all, “we’re all on the same team here”, why are we tolerating people doing the same to Zappe?

Zappe performs the way he did, people get rightfully and justifiably excited, and then others tell us he isn’t that great, qualify/undermine/downplay his performance, do stuff like make comments belittling former coaches praising him, etc.

This stuff goes both ways. I think there are very few who actually have goodwill towards both equally - most prefer one guy, which is human nature I suppose, especially when only one can play at a time.

There is no reason whatsoever for anyone to "shoot down" Zappe, over anything. Revisionist-history criticism of Mac from those reaching for reasons to make a change has been over the top.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

There is no reason whatsoever for anyone to "shoot down" Zappe, over anything. Revisionist-history criticism of Mac from those reaching for reasons to make a change has been over the top.

That reminds me, 'Mac' spelled backwards is 'Cam'.

Um, sorry...