You guys need to rebuild

[DaBruinz]

See, the players that you lost were not just a cogs in the proverbial machine. They were difference makers. I'm glad you feel that the pats have young talent all over the place but nobody else thinks so. Forgive me if I don't think ellis hobbs and company are the studs you hope they'll be.

Wille is a big time player.

Givens is a big time player.

Adam V is a big time player.

And you give me Hobbs????? Hobbs?????

Ok dude. Its time for all of us to get some sleep. Hobbs???? Yeah, you definitely need some rest.

SteelCity -
You are clueless. So is your bum chum Sooner.

Givens is not a BIG TIME Player. He's a good #2. he's not a #1. And Givens had some big drops this year.

Adam V was a big time player. But he had some key misses this year. Including one in the Denver Play-off game that could have changed the entire outcome of the game.

Willie, well, I said McGinest was the best 3-4 OLB in the league and I stand by that. Doesn't mean that Vrabel hasn't ever stepped up. Doesn't mean that Colvin hasn't ever stepped up.

They are just cogs in the machine. Cogs whose importance changes as time goes on. I understand that concept.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

SteelCity -
You are clueless. So is your bum chum Sooner.

Givens is not a BIG TIME Player. He's a good #2. he's not a #1. And Givens had some big drops this year.

Adam V was a big time player. But he had some key misses this year. Including one in the Denver Play-off game that could have changed the entire outcome of the game.

Willie, well, I said McGinest was the best 3-4 OLB in the league and I stand by that. Doesn't mean that Vrabel hasn't ever stepped up. Doesn't mean that Colvin hasn't ever stepped up.

They are just cogs in the machine. Cogs whose importance changes as time goes on. I understand that concept.

Again with the angerness, the hatred, the venom. What was your relationship like with your mother like? Were you abused?

Get counseling.

- Dr. Drew

 

[DaBruinz]

Actually, I think he needs to get laid or perhaps some serious, serious meds. A lot of anger issues with that guy for whatever reason.

No anger issues what so ever. Just sick and tired of morons like yourself and Steelcity acting like you know wtf you are talking about when its apparent you are clueless.

But, you can delusion yourself however you want. You sit there lying and exaggerating what people say to try and prove a non-existant point. That's how you seem to get your jollies.

 

[DaBruinz]

Again with the angerness, the hatred, the venom. What was your relationship like with your mother like? Were you abused?

Get counseling.

- Dr. Drew

*ROFLMAO*

There was no anger nor hatred nor venom. But I don't expect the clueless to comprehend that.

You just keep on lying, Sooner. Its seems that its pathological for you.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

*ROFLMAO*

There was no anger nor hatred nor venom. But I don't expect the clueless to comprehend that.

You just keep on lying, Sooner. Its seems that its pathological for you.

Nah. Saying another poster who has continually demonstrated they have anger issues dating back to day one on this board isn't exactly lying. You have a short fuse which suggests some emotional problems. How long has that been a problem for you?

 

[SteelCity]

Bruinz....

you just need to calm down and try not to take everything so seriously. You take this stuff too personal.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Bruinz....

you just need to calm down and try not to take everything so seriously. You take this stuff too personal.

Whatver you do, don't bring up Duane Starks. It sends him over the edge and we've all been through enough today.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bruinz....

you just need to calm down and try not to take everything so seriously. You take this stuff too personal.

SteelCity -
Hmm.. Lets see, you come trolling on the Patriots message board spewing stupidity and cluttering it, yet you don't expect people to be upset with you?

Steelctiy, why not just do everyone a favor and leave. Or at least admit that the Steelers are in just as bad of shape as the Patriots.

 

[DaBruinz]

Whatver you do, don't bring up Duane Starks. It sends him over the edge and we've all been through enough today.

Oh brother. Hey sooner, why do you insist on lying and exaggerating? It doesn't make you appear any smarter.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

SteelCity -
Hmm.. Lets see, you come trolling on the Patriots message board spewing stupidity and cluttering it, yet you don't expect people to be upset with you?

Steelctiy, why not just do everyone a favor and leave. Or at least admit that the Steelers are in just as bad of shape as the Patriots.

I thought the Patriots weren't in bad shape, DaB? Was that Freudian slip?

 

[SteelCity]

Whatver you do, don't bring up Duane Starks. It sends him over the edge and we've all been through enough today.

lol. you patriot fans aren't the only ones with crazies on their boards. Unfortunately, we have em on our boards too. Well I shouldn't say that the guy is crazy, its just that he takes everything so seriously.

I guess you just gotta humor the poor guy and tell him that he's right all the time so that he calms down.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

lol. you patriot fans aren't the only ones with crazies on their boards. Unfortunately, we have em on our boards too. Well I shouldn't say that the guy is crazy, its just that he takes everything so seriously.

I guess you just gotta humor the poor guy and tell him that he's right all the time so that he calms down.

I've seen some of SteelerAl's posts over at Stillers.com...there are some similarities between the two, but I actually like DaB. He's like that cranky uncle everyone has whose always fun to listen too at family gatherings. It would be boring without guys like that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Nah. Saying another poster who has continually demonstrated they have anger issues dating back to day one on this board isn't exactly lying. You have a short fuse which suggests some emotional problems. How long has that been a problem for you?

Damn. More of the lies from you, Sooner.

Pretty funny that you claim that I have demonstrated Anger issues going back to day 1 on this board. Especially considering that I have been posting on and off on this board for well over 2 years. Probably 3 or 4. I would post asking Miguel questions about the Salary Cap. So, I hate to break this too you, but your lying and exaggerating again. Its must be pathological for you.

Now, as for your pathetic attempt at psychology, I suggest you don't quit your day job. And if psychology is your day job, well its no wonder so many people are screwed up in this world.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Damn. More of the lies from you, Sooner.

Pretty funny that you claim that I have demonstrated Anger issues going back to day 1 on this board. Especially considering that I have been posting on and off on this board for well over 2 years. Probably 3 or 4. I would post asking Miguel questions about the Salary Cap. So, I hate to break this too you, but your lying and exaggerating again. Its must be pathological for you.

Now, as for your pathetic attempt at psychology, I suggest you don't quit your day job. And if psychology is your day job, well its no wonder so many people are screwed up in this world.

Ahhh I love the schtick.

 

[SteelCity]

Yeah stillers.com is a place that is full of nut cases, not just SteelerAl. There actually are a lot of similarities between bruinz and Al though. Its just sad that these guys go overboard all the time. Like I said before, guys like that need to calm down a bit and try not to take this stuff so seriously. You guys have some good posters here who no doubt have to deal with this guy everyday and I'm sure it wears on your nerves a little bit.

Its the same way on the steeler boards with these psychos.

Bruinz......... I'm not your enemy dude. I have no animosity towards you. Maybe a little pity, but no animosity.

The steelers suffered losses and they will hurt the team. But in all honesty, I can't equate those losses with the 3 big patriots. I'm just being honest.

Really, I think it sucks that the patriots lost those guys because they are guys that you identify with the patriots.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Buy Low, Sell High

It's never that surprising to see a huge-name vet depart the Pats - though I thought AV was going to get shunned by the market, given the money he wanted.

It's the same business model we've always had: set a value for a player. Pay that much. Do not pay beyond it. It's the model that won 3 out of 4 super bowls.

Right now, ladies and gentlemen - whatever you think of their chances to ever come back again (and I would not call them the favorites) - the Steelers are the present world champs. And as Tom Brady said, "These guys hate us."

Where else would you go if you were a Steelers fan this year, but to a Pats message board? There's a reason he's not taunting the Bengals or the Ravens. If there was ever an impediment to the Steelers' ambitions, it was that blue and silver gorilla on their backs. I wouldn't count on the gorilla being gone.

That said, I have no idea what the Pat's plan is, but I wouldn't think of this year's departures as Patriots Armageddon. One poster suggests it is to get younger, re-tool, sign the remaining veterans (especially Seymour, preferably long-term,) and move on.

Well, it's also just possible that you can spend, say, a mill and a half or two mill for a Josh Brown or a Paul Edinger, and trim in the neighborhood of 1% of your total cap space for years to come - do that 5 times and you have a big edge. Just an example. And McGinnest was going to cost somewhere north of 7 million this year. With 51 guys counting against the cap, the average total salary has to be 2 mill. Period. Much as we love having a guy with a brilliant post-season sack record and solid play all year every year, you have to figure 12 of those years are behind him. Willie Mac will be missed, Adam will be missed, and David Givens will be missed (especially during the playoffs.) But one constant truth in the NFL is that somebody will open the checkbook once your boy makes good. Then you have to decide if he's really 50% better than the next guy at the position - or whether people put a huge premium on the SB experience and on the name.

"Retooling?" I don't think so. I think it's business, pure and simple. The Pats have skipped the flashy early signings (as is their tendency every year.) Something tells me they'll continue to spend to the cap, but they'll do it the Patriots Way.

And about Steelers/Pats enmity - those guys had in the 70s what we had in the last few years, and which we are still likely to revisit this year again. They're at a crossroads, in their minds - the next dynasty, or the next Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a blip between Patriots super bowls. Of course they're going to make the most of the moment.

It's probably a one-of-a-kind offseason when they can look back nostalgically at the 70s, with some hope of revisiting them.

We can smile and nod for a few months. That's all it will take.

PFnV

 

[dante828]

See, the players that you lost were not just a cogs in the proverbial machine. They were difference makers. I'm glad you feel that the pats have young talent all over the place but nobody else thinks so. Forgive me if I don't think ellis hobbs and company are the studs you hope they'll be.

Wille is a big time player.

Givens is a big time player.

Adam V is a big time player.

And you give me Hobbs????? Hobbs?????

Ok dude. Its time for all of us to get some sleep. Hobbs???? Yeah, you definitely need some rest.

I think you're getting more crap then you deserve right now. You started out stating what may be a legitimate concern about the Patriots, they did lose three big game players. There is no denying that. But your forgetting Brady, Bruschi, Vrabel, potentially Harrison, Seymour, Branch, Belichick.....I mean, all these guy were big in big games as well, and that core is not gone (I am including Belichick because he has played such a key role in victory every year as well). We'll miss Givens, McGinest, and Vinatierri, most assuredly. But not as much as you think. You comment on Hobbs, but thge poster did mention those other players as well, which you ignored. Considering the strong core we have and and the young talent, the Pats are in good shape to develop future playmakers. I think that is why no one is worried, that's why I am not worried. This is what the Pats are designed to do, consistently win over a long period of time, continuously developing new playmakers to replace old ones that leave for more money. The Steelers are very similar in that manner. People are always going to leave for more money, there are always teams with cap space who are willing to overpay. Its a fact of life in the NFL, one the Pats and Steelers are well designed to deal with.

I have been reading this site for a while, whenever someone mildly criticizes the Pats, they get jumped on. Sometimes legitimately, sometimes not so much. I think the overall reaction to your post has been caused by a loose trigger finger on calling out any trolls, most of which have been horrible on this site in the past. (Most recently Bronco trolls who were idiot jerks, thanks for beating them by the way). I think you were making an interesting point from the point of view from an outsider, who doesn't know the team that well. I tried to answer your concerns. Unfortunately others took it as bragging on your part, which I did not sense, which is why I choosing to respond in a civil manner. I hope you try to post some legitimate posts in the future, may return a certain level of civility to the board that has recently been sorely lacking. Maybe good trolls will keep the bad ones out.

For those Pats posters, seriously, not a troll here. I just like to talk Pats football and read about it. But sometimes it gets ruins by illogical posts that ruin legit conversation. Sometimes you need to hold back a bit before you explode on an outsider. I know I am newbie to this site, but i really don't want to see this become a shouting match on every post (and recently that is what is happening). I have stopped reading so much because of it. Its not just the trolls fault and there needs to be a certain level of calm restored. I am just saying.

Now I am prepared for your insults and troll claims, they aren't true, but I fully expect them, and that is just sad.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bruinz......... I'm not your enemy dude. I have no animosity towards you. Maybe a little pity, but no animosity.

The steelers suffered losses and they will hurt the team. But in all honesty, I can't equate those losses with the 3 big patriots. I'm just being honest.

Really, I think it sucks that the patriots lost those guys because they are guys that you identify with the patriots.

SteelCity -
If you want to be taken seriously, its not bright to start a thread saying that the Pats need to rebuild. Or, at least put better thought into it. I mean, seriously. Did you stop to think about all the other "CORE" players that the Patriots have lost, either due to injury or free agency?

For instance, in 2002, it was Bledsoe going. You had people like Ron Borges claiming the Pats made a mistake and that them going 9-7 proved it. Of course, he totally ignored the issues that the Pats had on defense.

In 2003, the "heart of the defense" Lawyer Milloy was cut 5 days before the start of the season after almost 6 months of trying to negotiate an extension. The Pats were over the cap and needed to get under it and he was the only player other than Ty Law who hadn't renegotiated already. What happened? The Pats went on to win despite losing Ted Washington and Ted Johnson for numerous games. Eugene Wilson stepped up. So did Asante Samuel.

In 2004, the Pats lost Ted Washington. They also lost Bobby Hamilton. The Pats had Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork waiting. They also signed Keith Traylor for back-up. The Pats lost Ty Law and Ty Poole for a majority of the season. Asante Samuel and Randall Gay stepped up. And the Pats added Corey Dillon. Jarvis Green stepped up at the end of the season and the Play-offs with Seymour out.

In 2005, The Pats lost Traylor, Law, Andruzzi, Patten and Klemm to free agency. They lost Ted Johnson to post concussion syndrome and Tedy Bruschi for 7 games due to a stroke. They lost Seymour for 4 games again. They also lost 6 DBs to the IR, as well as their staring LT and starting C. What happened. Kaczur, Mankins, and Hobbs all stepped up. So did Artrell Hawkins whom the Pats brought in late in the season. It wasn't enough because of all the injuries. However, the fact that the Patriots went 10-6 with such a tough schedule should speak VOLUMES about this team.

So, while McGinest, Givens, and Vinatieri were important Cogs of the Championship teams, their absence means that other players have to step up. Whether its a rookie OLB or a vet that they sign. Whether its Bam Childress or Reche Caldwell or someone else. Someone can and will step up. Its part of the character of this team. And its why I have the faith that they can succeed.

As a side note, the receiving corps of Branch, Watson, Graham, Caldwell, Childress, and Johnson is as good as or better than that of Brown, Patten, Charles Johnson, Torrance Small, Fred Coleman and Jermaine Wiggins of 2001. So, no, I am not worried.

 

[MrTibbs]

I can't believe all they key guys you guys have just lost.........

Givins is such a big game receiver.

Willie is huge in big games..... he causes so much havoc rushing the passer from just about any front 7 position. He is another big gamer.

Adam V.......... This guy's big game credentials are outstanding.

I hope nobody get offended by my post because I was just thinking about how great those players were in big games. Losing one of those guys would be a huge loss but losing all of them???? Wow....

No sh*t.........your not lying. Any Patriots fan who disagrees with you at this point is lying to themselves. There is some fishy business going in Foxborough this offseason and we have yet to find out what all this stink is really about. These guys are cleaining house big time. Im hoping Bellichick hasn't gotten to big on himself.

 

[scout]

Steel City is right in that it will be hard to replace these three players. The Patriots were right in not giving contracts to at least two of those players. In Adam's case, I'm not privy to what was actually going on inside the Patriots organization. But as always, in Bill we trust. No, we are not rebuilding. You could say the same thing everyear since 2001. The list of players who have left the Patriots is very lengthy. Remember we were done when Ty Law left. Come December, this will still be the team to beat. Some of the Patriots fans are on edge, understandable. Heck, they are throwing mud at each other more then usual.