Yep - Another Deion Branch thread

[All_Around_Brown]

Remember when Brady made Patten look like a true #1? Honestly, how is Patten doing now?

Point is: Branch isn't as good as Brady makes him out to be, and without Brady throwing to him he's probably just another above average #2 WR at this point in his career. Wayne is a far better #2.

Branch has lost all leverage because everyone around the league knows Branch is not worth the $ he is commanding.

Point of note: he has been removed from NFLs WR list:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerindex/POS_WR

 

[Zuma]

Point of note: he has been removed from NFLs WR list:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerindex/POS_WR

I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree...why has he been removed?

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

I think Patriot fans will rue the day they were too cheap to pay the stud to go out and do his thing.

Ahhh the warcry of the knee-jerk uninformed, Trolls and Patriot haters. I'm sure you're none of the above, so maybe this will help:

Team = Blue ... Agent = Red

Normal negotiations:
Offer ---> Counter Offer ---> Offer ---> Counter Offer ---> repeat until resolution

Chayut negotiations:
Offer ---> Refusal ---> Offer ---> Refusal ---> Threat to Hold out until week 10 unless promise is made not to tag ---> Threat to pull extension offer off table unless client gets his ass into camp ---> Holdout ---> Impasse

Again, don't get me wrong, I WANT Branch back, but a stud he ain't and cheap the Pats ain't.

 

[edzo44]

I know this has been beaten to death up, down and sideways, but what the hey: Say the "impossible" happened and Minnesota offered a No. 1 for Branch, or someone else comes up with acceptable trade compensation and a deal is consummated. THAT STILL LEAVES US WITHOUT BRANCH'S SERVICES this season, a void we are unlikely to fill otherwise. It boggles my mind that BB feels OK about possibly going through 2006 with the WR corps as presently constituted. There is NO WAY Belipioli could have entered into this without acknowledging the very real possibility that Branch may not play for New England again.

Perhaps they figure that at least they should have some sort of definite resolution one way or the other. Based on result they will determine which pre-thought out possibility to implement. My guess would be potential desirable target WR's they would go after when the NFL teams final cutdowns to 53 players have taken place. There will probably be some surprise, but very good, WR's jettisoned during that cut and you can bet they already know which ones they would go after most heavily if necessary.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Easy: pay Deion, and get tough on the players after him. Who's next, Koppen and Warren? Get tough with them. I think the Pats are afraid of looking "weak" as negotiators after the Seymour contract, where they set the market, so they decided to get tough with Deion. I would rather pay Deion and get tough with Koppen.

You think the process would stop with Koppen? With Warren? Where will it stop?

Is Deion the functional equivalent of Richard Seymour?

I didn't think so either.

Apples and oranges.

And that's what your point of argument is here - mixed fruit.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

Remember when Brady made Patten look like a true #1? Honestly, how is Patten doing now?

Point is: Branch isn't as good as Brady makes him out to be, and without Brady throwing to him he's probably just another above average #2 WR at this point in his career. Wayne is a far better #2.

Branch has lost all leverage because everyone around the league knows Branch is not worth the $ he is commanding.

Point of note: he has been removed from NFLs WR list:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerindex/POS_WR

Even in Patten's best two years for the Pats, he never got close to Branch's production, and, more importantly, according to footballoutsider's records, he has caught fewer than 50% of the passes thrown his way, compared to Branch, who is usually in the low 60s in catch %.

Really, Brady never made Patten look like a number 1. Branch looks like a (2nd tier) #1 WR in this offense because he's the best WR that Brady's had to throw to.

If Brady could make any WR into a #1, then why hasn't he been getting the ball to WRs in these preseason games?

It's the same reason why Peyton Manning didn't make any of his WRs look like Marvin Harrison until Reggie Wayne came along -- because QBs don't make mediocre WRs look like stars.

Will Brady make a WR-light passing game better than any other QB in the league could? I think he could. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a significantly better offense with a WR like Branch playing in it.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

That's what worried me.

If there is any truth to this, then most likely no agreement of Branch's return is in place.

We still may not see Deion till week 10!

I am really hoping they find the market for his services isn't as high as he hoped, and just think the best is to get back (or in this case, start) negotiating a longterm deal.

Worse, if this article is to be believed, not only is it unlikely that there's any agreement in place for Branch's return, but it seems like the Pats' FO are trying a strong-arm tactic that they must know is unlikely to be received well by Branch.

I can't see the angle in that.

I think we can all agree that the ideal outcome of these negotiations is that Branch resigns with the Pats to a reasonable deal. Do you really see Branch, after the week is over, if he hasn't found a trade partner willing to meet his demands, totally backing down and signing a lesser deal w/ the Pats? Or do you see him coming back even more intrenched in his holdout, and now with additional bitterness about the humiliation methods the Pats FO employed?

Latter sounds more likely to me. While the idea of the Pats surprising Branch + Chayut with this move is emotionally satisfying in some way, I just don't see how it won't resort in turning from a holdout that's been all about money into a situation in which a player just doesn't want to play for this team any more.

 

[arrellbee]

It seems most probable that the Patriots will not budge much. If past history is any clue, they are prepared to move on without almost any player.

So the situation is, and basically always has been, up to Branch as to what he wants to do. I know folks are very upset with Chayut/Branch, but really - what was the downside for them ? Nothing (unless the Pats collect the fines). So, it being business and not about how Pats/Branch 'feel' about each other (or how the fans 'feel' about it) it seems like it was not a hard decision to stay out. It might have had some effect on negotiations - but if it didn't, so what, no downside.

On the other hand, I see no benefit for Branch to not return before the season starts. If there was any question there is none now - the Pats aren't going to budge. So all Branch could accomplish would be to lose his weekly paycheck - no sense in that. The one low odds possibility other than that would be if Branch places more value on avoiding the risk of injury versus something like 600K - it seems unlikely.

So if you were making book - I think the odds are high that Branch will be back.

------------

Couple of other thoughts.

Given the failure rate of 1st and 2nd round wide receiver draftees, wouldn't it be really smart to trade a future 1st round pick for a proven commodity (and a solid citizen low-maintenance player to boot) ? Sure seems like it - almost even a no-brainer. It will be fascinating to see if there is even one team smart enough to figure that out.

You might think that if Branch comes back before the season starts that the Pats would kiss and make up and not enforce the fines so as not to create hard feelings. BUT. I'm not so sure. Remember what has been mentioned so many times - precedent. The Patriots have to be concerned about sending any kind of message that there is no penalty for holding out of preseason which might encourage more holdouts based on players thinking there is no downside whatsoever - that would be a chaotic and detrimental situation. Considering that aspect, I would almost be surprised if the Pats do not collect the fines. I don't know if we will ever find out one way or another. But you can bet that the other Patriots players and probably every agent in the league will know.

 

[edgecy]

Were we to "pay the stud" - how do you then propose we deal with the line of players at BB's door looking to renegotiate their contracts while they are still under contract just like Deion?
QUOTE]
Easy: pay Deion, and get tough on the players after him. Who's next, Koppen and Warren? Get tough with them. I think the Pats are afraid of looking "weak" as negotiators after the Seymour contract, where they set the market, so they decided to get tough with Deion. I would rather pay Deion and get tough with Koppen.

I am sure that's what BB thought after Seymour. "Pay Seymour now and get tough with the players after him." If that's your line of thinking, where does it stop? If you make an exception to one guy, the rest of the team will expect you to make an exception for them. If we cave in to Deion now, who's to say Koppen won't do the same? Graham won't do the same? Watson?

 

[edgecy]

You think the process would stop with Koppen? With Warren? Where will it stop?

Is Deion the functional equivalent of Richard Seymour?

I didn't think so either.

Apples and oranges.

And that's what your point of argument is here - mixed fruit.

Yeah, what he said

 

[Johnny Z]

post season:


Branch - 8 games - 41 catches, 629 yards, 2 TDs

averaging - 5 catches per playoff game, 79 yards, .25 TDs

Patten - 6 games - 20 catches, 260 yards, 2 TDs

averaging - 3 catches per playoff game, 43 yards, .25 TDs

Jerry Rice - 38 games - 151 catches, 2245 yards, 22 TDs

averaging - 4 catches per playoff game, 59 yards, .58 TDs

 

[Willie55]

post season:


Branch - 8 games - 41 catches, 629 yards, 2 TDs

averaging - 5 catches per playoff game, 79 yards, .25 TDs

Patten - 6 games - 20 catches, 260 yards, 2 TDs

averaging - 3 catches per playoff game, 43 yards, .25 TDs

Jerry Rice - 38 games - 151 catches, 2245 yards, 22 TDs

averaging - 4 catches per playoff game, 59 yards, .58 TDs

21 of Branch's catches were from two games. Take those two games away, Branch and Patten have the same stats in the same number of games.

 

[nhpatsfan]

i have a question - everyone thinks the pats would want a number 1. If they want a number 1 doesnt that kinda validate branch and his agent about his value as a 1st round draft trade player and wont branch's agent turn around and say if you cant trade for less than a number 1 then pay him like it ?

Sure.....when he is up for a new contract. Right now he is under a contract he agreed to that was a gamble for both sides. Time for him to suck it up and play ball.

 

[VJCPatriot]

How is giving Branch the ok to seek a trade a "strongarm" tactic?

I think all it means is that the Patriots are giving Branch the permission to seek other teams and see what his value would be on the open market.

If Branch can find a suitor, then that team needs to come to an agreement with the Pats on compensation.

The Pats would likely want a late 1st or early 2nd rounder for Branch imo.

Best case is that the Pats want to keep Branch though and will simply say, ok so this was the most that you got offered, we'll match that.

 

[Water Boy]

I know this has been beaten to death up, down and sideways, but what the hey: Say the "impossible" happened and Minnesota offered a No. 1 for Branch, or someone else comes up with acceptable trade compensation and a deal is consummated... THAT STILL LEAVES US WITHOUT BRANCH'S SERVICES this season.

What about the possibility of turning around and trading that draft pick (or a lesser one) for a WR this season?

 

[Pats726]

Latter sounds more likely to me. While the idea of the Pats surprising Branch + Chayut with this move is emotionally satisfying in some way, I just don't see how it won't resort in turning from a holdout that's been all about money into a situation in which a player just doesn't want to play for this team any more.

Gee..he hasn't shown up at all...OR sent any counter proposals..I think THAT pretty much says you don't wish to play for the club..what do you think?? If he wamted to play for the Patriots he would be in camp...silly..How does it make it worse?? If indeed that does happen..the Patriots will make moves to get another WR and Branch is negated totally..The team moves on without him..and if he sits out till the 10th game or NOT, it willl not matter. He'll be gone...he'll hate the team..but how has his actions said any less now??? There has been ZERO good faith..."I will honor the contract"...Right..Deion has run out on a limb...by bnot negotiating fairly and showing up..he's doing what is best for Him..What does he think the Patriots are foing to do, pay him more after his tantrum?? They given him opportunity galore TO return, but h seems to be enjoying his vacation away from football..Now, he needs to stop laughing and get serious!!

 

[Sporin]

Green Bay has cap money, a need for a receiver, a strong desire to "win now" and a potentially stunning Linebacker rookie that they think is a bust.

Trade him straight up for A.J. Hawk, BB and the staff can get the kid back on track.

 

[Tunescribe]

Green Bay has cap money, a need for a receiver, a strong desire to "win now" and a potentially stunning Linebacker rookie that they think is a bust.

Trade him straight up for A.J. Hawk, BB and the staff can get the kid back on track.

How has Hawk shown bust potential this early? I haven't followed what he's doing in Green Bay.

 

[RayClay]

Green Bay has cap money, a need for a receiver, a strong desire to "win now" and a potentially stunning Linebacker rookie that they think is a bust.

Trade him straight up for A.J. Hawk, BB and the staff can get the kid back on track.

OK.........

 

[Sporin]

How has Hawk shown bust potential this early? I haven't followed what he's doing in Green Bay.

I've read in numerous places that Green Bay isn't happy with him, don't know much other then that. I thought he was a slam dunk but apparenlty he is not making the transition to the NFL as smoothly as hoped.

As far as being a Patriot, i love the idea of bringing in a potentially great YOUNG linebacker to start grooming behind our vets.

Either way, just throwing it out there.