Would Gaffney have helped this team?? How about Vrabel??

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

If Welker has the expected dreaded ACL/MCL Brady injury we will most likely NOT see him until 2011

No way does this type of injury heal within 8 months without added time for rehabbing the knee,especially for a WR like Welker who relies on his knees.

Lets hope it not as bad as Brady had it or Kraft better get one hell of a shopping cart to buy some veteran receivers in a probable uncapped year next season.

 

[upstater1]

I have to agree with you. Case in point this year even though we all agree it was a very good draft class. More later on that. Many smart members on this forum have suggested picks that the Past could have made Draft day for the last few years. Yes in reply to what all you negative cousins are thinking....it is a brash thought! Some of our members could have done just as well as the Pats Draft brain trust. We all know it's a crap shoot anyway. With the internet and massive media publications and available tape on-line, it is not unreasonable to think that some here may have come up with as good of a Draft class as anyone in Foxborough. I say that with all due respect. Those guys are just human and mistakes are made. Problem is they get paid millions to make them.

Here is my example this year. Would we have been better off taking the Ravens pick we dropped down to, then swapped to Green Bay who took Clay Matthews? We would have lost out on Ron Brace(Butler and Brace were #40-#41 so we could have kept Butler). Brace might become o.k. but for now give me Matthews and his ten sacks and we could have solved the OLB issue for years to come. Seems like Prior was a better choice at DT. We did get a bonus out of that in injured pot head WR Brandon Tate. That has worked well!?! If we Draft Matthews, maybe we don't need to waste a 2010 3rd rounder for Burgess as well.

Next we reached big time for Ohrnberger at OG. I doubt he makes the team next year. Talk about mediocre! Many picks after him came Austin Collie who the Colts took. He has 60+ receptions. I hoped that the Pats would Draft that kid. He and Edelman growing up as Pros here this would have been entertaining, thus your 3rd receiver issue would have been solved with Collie.

So:
Brace and Tate=Matthews -OLB solved
Ohrnberger=Austin Collie-3rd WR solved
We probably save that 2010 3rd rounder for the weak Burgess trade.

If we took a survey I would suspect that the majority of this forum would have opted for Matthews and Collie.

Pretty sure being an NFL GM is not rocket science or how many years experience did it take to screw these few player choices up. Yes, I am saying it. Some on this forum could have made the wiser choices.

Butler and Chung have upside. Volmer, Prior and Edelman were finds yes, but it could have been spectacular. It was common sense to take Matthews and Collie.

DW Toys

You are certainly putting things in the worst possible frame.

For instance, the Matthews pick was traded for Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman and the Jax 2nd rounder for next year.

Three years from now, Butler may be a starting Pro Bowler, Tate may be our #2 WR, Edelman may be We Welker, and that 2nd rounder who knows?

Matthews may be AJ Hawk.

We don't know.

 

[upstater1]

A part of me wants a 6-10 season to weed out the bandwagoners.

LOL, I admit that I have thought this myself.

 

[DW Toys]

First of all, Matthews most likely wouldn't excel in this defense. He is horrible at setting the edge (worse than Burgess or Woods). He also couldn't cover a RB or TE to save his life.

As for Collie, The Pats drafted Tate in the hopes his knee would be better for this time of year. It wasn't.

Hindsight being 20/20, you look like a genius. Reality says that you have no clue whether or not those players would have done anything in the Pats system.

Mr. Negative, Weren't you on the Barwin bandwagon? I stated my interest in Collie last year. It was always a thought to have Matthews here would be a realistic fit by most on this forum. I know you are special. I leave the genius stuff to you kind sir.

Cover passes? Neither can Woods or Burgess.
DW Toys

 

[bigdgp]

That is something I agree with you, Vrabel had 50 tackles and 2 sacks this year... He would have not helped us at all..

Really, how does 50 Tackles and 2 sacks while missing two games in a new scheme compare to our OLB options?

TBC 54 Tackles 9.5 Sacks
AT 34 Tackles 3 Sacks
EA 12 Tackles 1 Sack
DB 35 Tackles 5 Sacks

Only TBC has really performed at a much higher level. I think Vrabel would have contributed to the team through his play and leadership.

 

[BritPat]

Really, how does 50 Tackles and 2 sacks while missing two games in a new scheme compare to our OLB options?

TBC 54 Tackles 9.5 Sacks
AT 34 Tackles 3 Sacks
EA 12 Tackles 1 Sack
DB 35 Tackles 5 Sacks

Only TBC has really performed at a much higher level. I think Vrabel would have contributed to the team through his play and leadership.

Vrabel was dumped in favour of Burgess - Burgess > Vrabel. The stats are there. Burgess has out-performed Vrabel despite playing in a brand new system.

The only thing Vrabel had over him was run defense, and I can accept a slightly worse run defender for a better pass rusher. I think we all would have during the pre-season. And right now.

 

[BritPat]

And sacks don't tell the whole story, never have.

 

[pao]

You bet! This team does not have quality depth and letting players like this go is why. Vrabel's toughness and smarts alone would be helping this D and don't even get me started on casting off guys like Gaffney.

What about Seymour??

 

[BritPat]

Some on this forum could have made the wiser choices.

Butler and Chung have upside. Volmer, Prior and Edelman were finds yes, but it could have been spectacular. It was common sense to take Matthews and Collie.

DW Toys

Interesting.

So why didn't you take Matthews then?

For those that can't be bothered clicking the link, it's DW's 2009 Mock Draft from last year (a seven rounder no less!) where he has Matthews on the board when the Pats pick, but then comes up with a trade out of the first round to the start of the second - yet here he is telling us how the Pats were wrong to pass over Matthews and trade out of the first round! And you suggested in a few other threads that the Pats should trade out of the first round!

We have a saying over here, not sure if you know it in the States - practice what you preach.

 

[Rob0729]

If Welker has the expected dreaded ACL/MCL Brady injury we will most likely NOT see him until 2011

No way does this type of injury heal within 8 months without added time for rehabbing the knee,especially for a WR like Welker who relies on his knees.

Lets hope it not as bad as Brady had it or Kraft better get one hell of a shopping cart to buy some veteran receivers in a probable uncapped year next season.

Why not? Braylon Edwards tore his ACL on December 5, 2005 and was playing in the preseason of 2006. Chad Jackson returned from his ACL tear in the playoffs in November the following year (and the Pats were reportly overly cautious not to bring him back to early). Jerry Rice returned 3 1/2 months after his ACL tear. The recovery time for the ACL surgery even for WRs is 7-9 months. The MCL may only add a couple of weeks to the process depending on the tear.

To rule Welker out of 2010 is way, way too premature at this point. This is the same reaction where people were predicting Brady would miss 2010 or at least be PUPed. We don't know the seriousness of the injury. A minor tear of the MCL may not be anything. There is plenty of examples of WRs returning in 7-9 months from an ACL tear. If the MCL is completely torn, it could set him back months. If it is minor, Welker could be back for the start of the 2010 season. We don't know yet.

 

[Pats726]

You bet! This team does not have quality depth and letting players like this go is why. Vrabel's toughness and smarts alone would be helping this D and don't even get me started on casting off guys like Gaffney.

I'll finish you OFF.since you ARE CLAIMIONG about getting started...learn about teh salary cap and how moves are sometimes related to timing first before you show your ignorance..READY for the practice squad on this one!!

 

[livinginthe past]

Holy ****,

Its not often you get to see one of these half-wit hindsight geniuses get roasted quite so badly.

Kudos, great catch.

Interesting.

So why didn't you take Matthews then?

For those that can't be bothered clicking the link, it's DW's 2009 Mock Draft from last year (a seven rounder no less!) where he has Matthews on the board when the Pats pick, but then comes up with a trade out of the first round to the start of the second - yet here he is telling us how the Pats were wrong to pass over Matthews and trade out of the first round! And you suggested in a few other threads that the Pats should trade out of the first round!

We have a saying over here, not sure if you know it in the States - practice what you preach.

 

[jmt57]

For those that are all but nominating Gaffney for the Pro Bowl, consider that in his three seasons with the Pats he averaged 28 receptions for 353 yards and 3 touchdowns. As for the second guessing over draft picks, I can do the same cherry picking of players that have gone on to do well for all 32 teams to make it appear that every one of them drafted poorly.

This 20-20 hindsight as proof that the team is doomed is ridiculous.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I agree with gaffney helping out. I think he would have been a solid 3rd option as he showed in the past. But there's no excuse for not addressing this matter especially when 2 receivers that were signed are gone.
As for vrabel he woldn't have hurted thats for sure. Ya think Seymour is missed?

 

[Pats726]

First of all, there is no "Patriots Nickel and Dime approach." That is for idiots who don't understand the salary cap. And you claiming that the Salary Cap is nonsense shows that you don't understand much about the different facets of the business.

And the cap isn't the same for every team. The starting point is the same, but the end point isn't. For a variety of reasons. Such as Likely To Be Earned Bonuses and Not Likely To Be Earned Bonuses. And the credits and debits that they get for the ones that are made and not made.

Also, something that you clearly don't comprehend is that the trade off wasn't Gaffney for Aiken. The trade off was Gaffney for Galloway. And, at the time, the Pats thought that they were getting a WR would could work with Brady and run the intermediate routes they needed so as to open things up for Welker and Moss. Hindsight is 20/20.

Also, it wasn't a trade off of Seau for Vrabel. There is a lot more to it than that.

I think the OP has played fantasy football and THINKS that that is all that he needs to know..lol...Pretty lame...there are many diemensions to this..WAY past that...which is WHY so called FF lovers who then THINK they CAN BE GMs because they are GOOD at that..are basically lost..I agree...and actually it wasn't Gaffney for Galloway..per se..there was an element of timing involved..as I recall Gaffney wanted a longer deal and was signed the first day..so at that time the Patriots had higher priorities..Galloway given his reputation and such..SHOULD have been a lot better,,but was a bust..it happens!!

 

[captain stone]

This 20-20 hindsight as proof that the team is doomed is ridiculous.

No it's not.

And in most cases, it's not hindsight; e.g., if given the choice btwn. CBs Wilhite & Orlando Scandrick at the end of the 4th round in '08, most of us in the draft forum would have chosen the much more highly-regarded Scandrick. Bill didn't, to our regret. And need I mention Chicken Legs Crable vs. Cliff Avril? Or Wheatley vs. Terrell Thomas? Or Kevin O'Connell vs. anybody? Or Slater vs. someone who can actually play a position?

One of the (main) reasons why this team is now incapable of closing games is because our depth sux due to Bill's crap personnel (both college & pro) decisions. Hell, some of our starters suck, too, never mind backups.

The question we all should be asking ourselves by this time next week, after the Baltimore ("F the Patriots") Murderers hand us our 1st PO loss at home since 1978 is:
When will Krafty insist that Bill hires the best avail. college & pro talent evaluators, and that Bill remove himself from from final say authorities in such matters, before this franchise sinks into unrecoverable obscurity?

 

[RayClay]

You bet! This team does not have quality depth and letting players like this go is why. Vrabel's toughness and smarts alone would be helping this D and don't even get me started on casting off guys like Gaffney.

1 yes, 2 no. Vrabel is injured and washed up.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No it's not.

And in most cases, it's not hindsight; e.g., if given the choice btwn. CBs Wilhite & Orlando Scandrick at the end of the 4th round in '08, most of us in the draft forum would have chosen the much more highly-regarded Scandrick. Bill didn't, to our regret. And need I mention Chicken Legs Crable vs. Cliff Avril? Or Wheatley vs. Terrell Thomas? Or Kevin O'Connell vs. anybody? Or Slater vs. someone who can actually play a position?

One of the (main) reasons why this team is now incapable of closing games is because our depth sux due to Bill's crap personnel (both college & pro) decisions. Hell, some of our starters suck, too, never mind backups.

The question we all should be asking ourselves by this time next week, after the Baltimore ("F the Patriots") Murderers hand us our 1st PO loss at home since 1978 is:
When will Krafty insist that Bill hires the best avail. college & pro talent evaluators, and that Bill remove himself from from final say authorities in such matters, before this franchise sinks into unrecoverable obscurity?

I'm gonna save you the wait and tell you that will happen when hell freezes over. And given the liklihood of that happening you might want to start looking for a better run franchise to follow. Check back with us if you find one.

 

[mgteich]

In his limited playing time, Edelman produced as much as Gaffney did. Would we be better off right now with Gaffney? Of course! We'd also be better off with Caldwell, Nunn, Galloway or anyone else that knows the offense.

Yes, I want a better wide receiver for the 2010 season in the wide receiver rotation than Stanback.

For these playoffs, we have four of our five top producing receivers healthy. Edelman has shown that he can catch 5-10 receptions as a slot receiver. Faulk and Watson are fine receivers. Baker is an underutilized one (as are Morris and Taylor).

We can make whatever excuses we wish to in advance, but we are not likely to lose in the playoffs because one of our receivers in injured.

For those that are all but nominating Gaffney for the Pro Bowl, consider that in his three seasons with the Pats he averaged 28 receptions for 353 yards and 3 touchdowns. As for the second guessing over draft picks, I can do the same cherry picking of players that have gone on to do well for all 32 teams to make it appear that every one of them drafted poorly.

This 20-20 hindsight as proof that the team is doomed is ridiculous.

 

[IcyPatriot]

You bet! This team does not have quality depth and letting players like this go is why. Vrabel's toughness and smarts alone would be helping this D and don't even get me started on casting off guys like Gaffney.

I'm forwarding this question to Charlie Casserly.