Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[upstater1]

See my earlier posts and look at the QBs not named Brady who have won the SB in the last 20+ years. See a lot of "elite" players there? Or are you contending that other coaches, like McVay in LA or Pederson in Philly can win with less-thank elite, but BB can't?

Yep, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson , Eli Manning (hmmm?), all won Super Bowls.

Then you think of the losing QBs like Jalen Hurts, Kerry Collins, Donovan McNabb, Rich Gannon, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman, Colin Kaepernick, Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Jimmy Garoppolo.

Clearly, there are a lot of good, not elite QBs listed above, and there are a lot of mediocre and bad QBs listed above as well.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The only thing I worry about is that other teams are also catching on, and it’s not-so-clever at this point. If anything, they may be tipping their hands with the lack of public interest in some cases.

Take that how you will. We shall see.

Every single team does posturing pre-draft. That's not even unusual or unique to the Patriots.

The more important discussions are the pre-draft trade-up offers. So for example a team will say if player X drops to Y position, what would it take for me to move up for that player, etc. I believe this is how most of the front officers gather their information and of course they keep track of these conversations so they will be prepared with move up or trade down offers if the right conditions occur. I believe that's likely how the Patriots also get a feel of whom other teams might be interested in.

It's likely there are also other sources of information that could help paint a picture of what other front offices might want on draft day but I'm not sure who those people are - coaches, agents, other people in the industry, most likely. As you know the Patriots keep a draft board and have their own unique system of grading prospects. But it's important they have a feel of where other teams rate prospects, so they know when it's appropriate to move up or down for a prospect and not take them way too early or too late. A certain guard in round 1 comes to mind... *cough*Strange*cough*

 

[ralmat55]

Didn't actually watch the games, did you. No one is "over-rating" Jack Jones. Most have him as a capable #2 CB going into the season. Most people want an outside corner to go opposite him. Someone like Gonzalez, Smith, Forbes, Witherspoon, etc.

Marcus Jones is NOT "playing out of position" by lining up outside. Neither is Jon Jones. If you'd actually paid attention to them, Marcus lined up outside in college regularly and went up against opposing teams #1s many times. Jon Jones proved himself very capable of being a #2 CB. No. He shouldn't be going up against the Diggs of the league, but there aren't many who can go against Diggs and succeed full time.

You're right that the Pats will probably draft 2 Cbs. But NOT because they NEED 2 starting outside corners. Because Wade hasn't panned out and Bryant sucks and needs to be shown the door ASAP.

Sorry to take so long responding to your thoughtful response. You’re just so witty.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maybe they swap Lance with Mac. Let Lance compete with Zappe and see what happens. Mac can compete with Purdy and Shanahan gets the QB he probably wanted in the first place 2 years ago. Mac can be a facsimile for Garoppolo in their offense but not made of glass.

Why would we want Lance who makes Garoppolo look like a league IronMan?

 

[Ross12]

Why would we want Lance who makes Garoppolo look like a league IronMan?

I dunno, is that fair? He got hurt last year but it’s only been two seasons. Not a big sample size.

 

[Ross12]

I’m warning on Jake Haener in the 4th or 5th. Some limitations but seems like a decent fit.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I’m almost entirely convinced the Pats hold these obviously public meetings to steer teams the wrong direction.

Other teams use these publicly reported meetings to gauge other teams’ interest in players so they have a better idea of where ‘x’/‘y’/‘z’ player will go, which team(s) are most likely to select a particular player, and get a feel for if they can trade-back and still get their guy, if they need to move up, so forth.

I think the Pats use these public meetings in order to create the perception they have interest in particular guys, in order to gain a tactical advantage, when they don’t actually intend to select those player(s) (at least not in the range of picks they’re projected to go in).

Were there many reports of them meeting with OL/OGs last draft season? Any inklings of them meeting Strange?

Given how many WRs they’re reported to have spoken with, I think it’s unlikely they go in that direction (in the 1st round, at least).

They’ve been reported to have spoken with Porter Jr., but not Witherspoon or Gonzalez (to my knowledge). I also haven’t seen much chatter around them meeting with OTs or DL.

The only thing I worry about is that other teams are also catching on, and it’s not-so-clever at this point. If anything, they may be tipping their hands with the lack of public interest in some cases.

Take that how you will. We shall see.

I'm sure we take meetings with prospects we might not have full intention on drafting. Looking for info on scheme or what was asked of them. Maybe we're looking to confirm or deny a suspicion, good or bad. There's definitely some of that but I disagree here. I think we're a big "don't ignore the obvious" team when it comes to the draft in a lot of respects.
Bill wants "no surprises." He wants to know what he's getting. And he wants to you to be able to play a role right away. We have no problem drafting for need and filling specific roles.

Believe it or not a lot of these visits arent listed to the public. So we'll only get confirmation of like 10-15 names but we drafted a fee each year out of the visits. Again maybe more they're just not all listed.

2018 - Duke Dawson, Braxton Berrios, Christian Sam
2019 - N'Keal Harry, Joejuan Williams Yodny Cajuste, (Stidham ?)
2020 - COVID - but we had private meetings with Onwenu and Uche.
2021- no info
2022 - Jack Jones, Marcus Jones (only 10 names again sometimes info isnt public).

I think where there's smoke there's fire here.

 

[jays52]

I'm sure we take meetings with prospects we might not have full intention on drafting. Looking for info on scheme or what was asked of them. Maybe we're looking to confirm or deny a suspicion, good or bad. There's definitely some of that but I disagree here. I think we're a big "don't ignore the obvious" team when it comes to the draft in a lot of respects.
Bill wants "no surprises." He wants to know what he's getting. And he wants to you to be able to play a role right away. We have no problem drafting for need and filling specific roles.

Believe it or not a lot of these visits arent listed to the public. So we'll only get confirmation of like 10-15 names but we drafted a fee each year out of the visits. Again maybe more they're just not all listed.

2018 - Duke Dawson, Braxton Berrios, Christian Sam
2019 - N'Keal Harry, Joejuan Williams Yodny Cajuste, (Stidham ?)
2020 - COVID - but we had private meetings with Onwenu and Uche.
2021- no info
2022 - Jack Jones, Marcus Jones (only 10 names again sometimes info isnt public).

I think where there's smoke there's fire here.

Yup.

Back in the day in the draft forum like ten years ago someone kept a running tab on meetings. Senior bowl, combine, pro day, and top 30. It wasn’t 100% that if they filled several of those the player would be taken but every year several on that list were. I think it is very safe to assume that in reading that list we are reading the names of several future patriots.

 

[DaBruinz]

Dane Brugler's Draft Guide on the Athletic is out.

 

[upstater1]

Read on Twitter that a couple of teams timed CB Devon Witherspoon in the 4.3s. If this is true, he jumps to the top of the CB list. Given the way he plays, that's an amazing time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Read on Twitter that a couple of teams timed CB Devon Witherspoon in the 4.3s. If this is true, he jumps to the top of the CB list. Given the way he plays, that's an amazing time.

I think Gonzalez stays ahead of him, honestly. Since Gonzo is 2 years younger. But if another team decides to take Witherspoon over Gonzo and Gonzo is there at 14, then it's a no-brainer..

 

[Ross12]

I think Gonzalez stays ahead of him, honestly. Since Gonzo is 2 years younger. But if another team decides to take Witherspoon over Gonzo and Gonzo is there at 14, then it's a no-brainer..

They're both really great. A couple great tackles too, a few defensive linemen, and probably 4 QBs that'll go in the top 10 also. Guessing at least one team will take a WR high too. Good chance there'll be an excellent player available at 14, or at 12 if the Pats are willing to jump up two spots for a later round pick.

 

[long distance]

We've met with Mingo and Flowers and Addison among others which tells me we're leaning WR early again.

We usually average about 3 prospects drafted from those visits. Usually mid round guys which bodes well for Mingo bingo around 3.

They've also met all top 5 edge guys after Anderson, one should be available at #14 and thats the best value for NE (if they stay put) since they can find corners (if needed) anywhere.

Its over 10 years since they last drafted DE in 1st and after a long series of 3rd round blunders i think its time.

I like Mac, he deserves a fair shake but you have to be open minded and keep the feelings in check.

The problem is this is the second year in a row Bill is not willing to give him a “fair shake“..

 

[captain stone]

I’m warning on Jake Haener in the 4th or 5th. Some limitations but seems like a decent fit.

We need Players in the 4th & 5th rounds, not 3rd-string QBs.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

They've also met all top 5 edge guys after Anderson, one should be available at #14 and thats the best value for NE (if they stay put) since they can find corners (if needed) anywhere.

Its over 10 years since they last drafted DE in 1st and after a long series of 3rd round blunders i think its time.

agree this would be a good value
only one thing i would like to add
i hope this DE will not be the OLB type as Uche, Perkins, Jennings are around 250 or lighter, i want a stouter DE with around 270 like van Ness.

The problem is this is the second year in a row Bill is not willing to give him a “fair shake“..

 

[Zuma]

We need Players in the 4th & 5th rounds, not 3rd-string QBs.

Usually players in those rounds are average at best. We have too many average players. We need to put better players around Mac or Zappe.

 

[DaBruinz]

The problem is this is the second year in a row Bill is not willing to give him a “fair shake“..

How do you figure that BB isn't willing to give Mac a "fair shake"? Based on the Simms and Florio idiocy? Or do you have something that's actually come from BB that says this..

 

[upstater1]

Usually players in those rounds are average at best. We have too many average players. We need to put better players around Mac or Zappe.

Jack Jones, Pierre Strong, Bailey Zappe, Rhamondre Stevenson, Mike Onwenu, Juwaun Bentley, Deatrich Wise, Connor McDermott, these are some of the guys we've taken 4th or later in the last few years who are still on the team.

That's not a bad record.

You're not going to hit on 50% of these guys.

Some of the guys we've taken who are still in the NFL are Ted Karras, Elandon Roberts, Kamu Grugier-Hill, Trey Flowers and Shaq Mason. James White and Marcus Cannon are obviously DONE.

 

[Zuma]

Jack Jones, Pierre Strong, Bailey Zappe, Rhamondre Stevenson, Mike Onwenu, Juwaun Bentley, Deatrich Wise, Connor McDermott, these are some of the guys we've taken 4th or later in the last few years who are still on the team.

That's not a bad record.

You're not going to hit on 50% of these guys.

Some of the guys we've taken who are still in the NFL are Ted Karras, Elandon Roberts, Kamu Grungier-Hill, Trey Flowers and Shaq Mason. James White and Marcus Cannon are obviously DONE.

Agree…not shabby at all even with all cherry picking and leaving out the misses. Let’s hope for another good draft in a couple weeks.

 

[Ross12]

Patriots host experienced dual-threat quarterback for pre-draft visit

The Patriots hosted dual-threat quarterback Malik Cunningham from Louisville for a pre-draft visit, making them one of five teams to do so.

985thesportshub.com

Pats met with Malik Cunningham. I wonder if he has any potential as a QB-to-WR conversion a la Edelman.