Will Bill Belichick break Don Shula's all time win record?

[venecol]

When has anyone ever been able to do it with their first round rookie QB? It would be the first time in NFL history,

Done what? Win games? Plenty have.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

When has anyone ever been able to do it with their first round rookie QB? It would be the first time in NFL history,

This isn’t to refute your point but just pointing out historic references.

It happened in 1937, the second draft in NFL history. Sammy Baugh was selected in the first round (6th overall) and led Washington to a championship in his rookie year.

Bob Waterfield was the only other rookie QB to lead his team to a championship, with the Rams in 1945. However, he didn’t play in 1944 after being drafted due to military service/injury. He would still be considered a rookie though. Fifth round pick.

Ben Roethlisberger was definitely the closest that I can remember. And he certainly may have done it if it weren’t for an all-time great. I’d argue that Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck played at a high enough level to win it all if they’d had great supporting casts. For Wilson, that support came a couple of years later.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Okay just thought of best. Story. Evah.

Belichick wants to extend his career. Asks if the avacado ice cream + mystery workout thing works for Senior Citizens looking to improve recall and vitality and longevity and stuff...long story short, Guerero gets his store back, BB coaches into his 80s, Tom comes back home to play the back 9, retires at 55. Pentagram and remains of sacrificed virgins found in bowels of gillette...

 

[venecol]

Okay just thought of best. Story. Evah.

Belichick wants to extend his career. Asks if the avacado ice cream + mystery workout thing works for Senior Citizens looking to improve recall and vitality and longevity and stuff...long story short, Guerero gets his store back, BB coaches into his 80s, Tom comes back home to play the back 9, retires at 55. Pentagram and remains of sacrificed virgins found in bowels of gillette...

Cool story but I think Guerrero tells Bill "call me after you've lost 100 pounds."

 

[Tony2046]

That's his winning % with the Pats w/o Brady. More than appropriate.

Way to take a dump on Mac "Attack" Jones.


Paystub time.

 

[Tony2046]

And if you believe Wickersham - that and the "you'll have to ask Tom" comment was noticed by Brady's family and they were not impressed.

This is probably the dumbest post you've made. And you have made many but good Lord. Do you have a drinking problem? Just curious.

 

[Tony2046]

Don't doubt it... Bill never defended Brady even once during his Mona Lisa Vito press conference...

How was that not a defense??? It was.

 

[Tony2046]

This isn’t to refute your point but just pointing out historic references.

It happened in 1937, the second draft in NFL history. Sammy Baugh was selected in the first round (6th overall) and led Washington to a championship in his rookie year.

Bob Waterfield was the only other rookie QB to lead his team to a championship, with the Rams in 1945. However, he didn’t play in 1944 after being drafted due to military service/injury. He would still be considered a rookie though. Fifth round pick.

Ben Roethlisberger was definitely the closest that I can remember. And he certainly may have done it if it weren’t for an all-time great. I’d argue that Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck played at a high enough level to win it all if they’d had great supporting casts. For Wilson, that support came a couple of years later.

Can we make it a rule that pre-Pearl Harbor factoids don't count?

 

[sb1]

Done what? Win games? Plenty have.

I think they meant SB.

That hasnt happened yet but yeah lots of teams with rookie QBs have done well.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady was smart enough to go to a team that was loaded with talent but had poor QB play keeping them down. You can try to portray Tampa Bay as some sad sack organization but anyone smart enough to look at their roster knew how much talent they had. Brady took that and ran with it, kudos to him, but that in no way changes the fact that rebuilding a franchise after the end of a twenty year dynasty is infinitely bigger that playing QB.

In hindsight this is all true, but that’s if you take into account what both Brady and Belichick have done since parting ways.

As a reminder: it’s a fact that the Patriots had tied for second highest Super Bowl odds for the 2020 season, in February 2020. So that was after their disappointing second half and playoff loss. The Bucs were 80:1. On the day Brady signed with Tampa Bay, both teams had almost the exact same over/under win totals for the 2020 season. Just before the season, with Tampa Bay’s additions, they were favored to do a little better than New England, but it was close. After week 1, when the Saints thumped the Bucs and the Patriots beat the Dolphins, and even after week 2 when the Patriots nearly neat the Seahawks, there plenty of victory laps by the Boston media that the Patriots had simply pugged and played with Newton without major drop-off, while Tampa Bay’s undisciplined, deep pass loving, o-line struggling foibles were well documented. I remember one article saying don’t feel bad for Brady because he asked for it.

So let’s look at what happened from February 2020 to now.

Bucs

• The Bucs signed Rob Gronkowski, due to Brady.
• The Bucs signed Antonio Brown, due to Brady.
• The Bucs signed Leonard Fournette, who took less to play for the Bucs.
• The offense was changed, after a 7-5 start, with Brady taking more control of the offense. The changes clicked almost immediately as they focused on shorter passes opening up the big plays.
• The offensive line benefitted significantly from Brady.
• The Bucs drafted Tristan Wirfs and Antoine Winfield Jr.

Patriots

• Jarrett Stidham, Brady’s supposed replacement, was terrible. The Patriots were fortunate to get Cam Newton as an alternative, though he was terrible. In both cases, the prior belief that “the system” would always make the offense at least competent was obliterated.
• The wide receivers/tight ends expected to make that second year leap didn’t happen. Harry busted. When Brady left, people even thought Sanu was coming back and would contribute after healing up.
• The Patriots, despite in hindsight claiming otherwise, loaded up with veterans like McCourty, Thuney, Slater, etc. and increased Gilmore’s base salary. They didn't sign or trade for young players or draft picks.
• The Patriots were favored to win 8-9 games, but they fell apart. They were supposedly too well coached to get blown out, but they got blown out unexpectedly several times. They were supposed to get better as the season went on, but they got worse. Opposite of Tampa.
• The Patriots younger, drafted players who were supposed to step up and become key pieces did nothing of the sort. It‘s easy to look at it now and wave your arms, but many thought they’d get some breakthroughs from Harry, Michel, Bentley, Joejuan, Winovich, etc. After Brady left, the team drafted Asiasi and Keene, along with Uche and Dugger. These guys have been, to say the least, not close to the same impact level as Wirfs or Winfield.

So it’s easy to look back now and claim how the Patriots were such a disaster, but that’s missing that Bill has contributed to the problems even after the time Brady left. The idea of reloading in 2020 involved savvy drafting, smart free agency signings geared towards the future, superior coaching advantages, etc. Besides Jones, they’ve continued with a series of bad player acquisitions. Tampa Bay, on the other hand, had a promising young roster but has gotten significantly better since Brady joined. It’s all hindsight to say the Bucs were so much better positioned to win, and in addition, Patriots fans were taken aback by Brady’s desire to have personnel input. That’s helped them tremendously.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Can we make it a rule that pre-Pearl Harbor factoids don't count?

 

[Pats1971]

Brady was smart enough to go to a team that was loaded with talent but had poor QB play keeping them down. You can try to portray Tampa Bay as some sad sack organization but anyone smart enough to look at their roster knew how much talent they had. Brady took that and ran with it, kudos to him, but that in no way changes the fact that rebuilding a franchise after the end of a twenty year dynasty is infinitely bigger that playing QB.

They didnt win a playoff game in 18 years, they had not had a winning record in 11 years, what would you call them? Also he didnt pick ****, they were the only team to offer him a contract. This league is about the QB, it has been for a long time. The pats rebuilt teams over and over again for the last 20 years, except one position QB, and now they have to and so far that has meant a losing record, so yeah I would say its pretty much about the QB. I am not portraying anything about Tampa, they were a losing franchise. Brady has already set all time records there, which is sad since he has been there a little over a year. If they win against the bears, it will be their best start in franchise history. Brady's 4 wins last year is the most by any QB in team history, so yeah, I would say that is a sad sack organization.

 

[venecol]

Way to take a dump on Mac "Attack" Jones.


Paystub time.

His winning % w/ Mac "Attack" Jones is 0.333.
I'm using 0.457
I'm being kind.

 

[Pats1971]

In hindsight this is all true, but that’s if you take into account what both Brady and Belichick have done since parting ways.

As a reminder: it’s a fact that the Patriots had tied for second highest Super Bowl odds for the 2020 season, in February 2020. So that was after their disappointing second half and playoff loss. The Bucs were 80:1. On the day Brady signed with Tampa Bay, both teams had almost the exact same over/under win totals for the 2020 season. Just before the season, with Tampa Bay’s additions, they were favored to do a little better than New England, but it was close. After week 1, when the Saints thumped the Bucs and the Patriots beat the Dolphins, and even after week 2 when the Patriots nearly neat the Seahawks, there plenty of victory laps by the Boston media that the Patriots had simply pugged and played with Newton without major drop-off, while Tampa Bay’s undisciplined, deep pass loving, o-line struggling foibles were well documented. I remember one article saying don’t feel bad for Brady because he asked for it.

So let’s look at what happened from February 2020 to now.

Bucs

• The Bucs signed Rob Gronkowski, due to Brady.
• The Bucs signed Antonio Brown, due to Brady.
• The Bucs signed Leonard Fournette, who took less to play for the Bucs.
• The offense was changed, after a 7-5 start, with Brady taking more control of the offense. The changes clicked almost immediately as they focused on shorter passes opening up the big plays.
• The offensive line benefitted significantly from Brady.
• The Bucs drafted Tristan Wirfs and Antoine Winfield Jr.

Patriots

• Jarrett Stidham, Brady’s supposed replacement, was terrible. The Patriots were fortunate to get Cam Newton as an alternative, though he was terrible. In both cases, the prior belief that “the system” would always make the offense at least competent was obliterated.
• The wide receivers/tight ends expected to make that second year leap didn’t happen. Harry busted. When Brady left, people even thought Sanu was coming back and would contribute after healing up.
• The Patriots, despite in hindsight claiming otherwise, loaded up with veterans like McCourty, Thuney, Slater, etc. and increased Gilmore’s base salary. They didn't sign or trade for young players or draft picks.
• The Patriots were favored to win 8-9 games, but they fell apart. They were supposedly too well coached to get blown out, but they got blown out unexpectedly several times. They were supposed to get better as the season went on, but they got worse. Opposite of Tampa.
• The Patriots younger, drafted players who were supposed to step up and become key pieces did nothing of the sort. It‘s easy to look at it now and wave your arms, but many thought they’d get some breakthroughs from Harry, Michel, Bentley, Joejuan, Winovich, etc. After Brady left, the team drafted Asiasi and Keene, along with Uche and Dugger. These guys have been, to say the least, not close to the same impact level as Wirfs or Winfield.

So it’s easy to look back now and claim how the Patriots were such a disaster, but that’s missing that Bill has contributed to the problems even after the time Brady left. The idea of reloading in 2020 involved savvy drafting, smart free agency signings geared towards the future, superior coaching advantages, etc. Besides Jones, they’ve continued with a series of bad player acquisitions. Tampa Bay, on the other hand, had a promising young roster but has gotten significantly better since Brady joined. It’s all hindsight to say the Bucs were so much better positioned to win, and in addition, Patriots fans were taken aback by Brady’s desire to have personnel input. That’s helped them tremendously.

Fact of the matter is. If Brady did not go to tampa, they win nothing, nobody is talking about them and how great they are. They are not mentioned just like before Brady got there. They literally went from 29th in ticket sales to first in less than a year. People need to stop with this crap of how great they were before he got there, because its silly.

 

[Pats1971]

He's been much better for the last 3 games, watch the first 3 games, it was glaring. He was causing his line to collapse. I didn't see it in the Cowboys game

Well the cowboys are 31st in pass defense, so maybe that helped.

 

[Pats1971]

Because they didn't play him, he lost the starting job to Cam Newton, and threw a bunch of interceptions when they put him out there. I don't know how much more obvious it can get than that.

He threw a lot of interceptions? Well hell when does Cam take Jones's spot? Young inexperienced QB's throw picks and make bad plays, something else happened and we will never know.

 

[venecol]

I think they meant SB.

That hasnt happened yet but yeah lots of teams with rookie QBs have done well.

Lol, I wasn't talking about SBs.
Jesus do people still believe we're going to the SB this year or next?
Let's start by having a winning season first.
Then improving on that to get a WC round next year.
Then maybe winning the division in 2 years?
If all that happens, we can maybe start talking SBs.

 

[Tony2046]

His winning % w/ Mac "Attack" Jones is 0.333.
I'm using 0.457
I'm being kind.

Mac is going to shove all of Fnord's donated bildos right up your .....


Hopefully you'll have a selfie or something.

 

[sb1]

Lol, I wasn't talking about SBs.
Jesus do people still believe we're going to the SB this year or next?
Let's start by having a winning season first.
Then improving on that to get a WC round next year.
Then maybe winning the division in 2 years?
If all that happens, we can maybe start talking SBs.

I’d like to think our window as a playoff team starts to open next year if all goes well. If it happens this year great but I’m not counting on it.

SBs- yeah that’s probably a long way off. Tbh I doubt Bill wins another one.

 

[venecol]

Mac is going to shove all of Fnord's donated bildos right up your .....


Hopefully you'll have a selfie or something.

You just had to get gross didn't you?