Wilfork and his future

[RI Patriots fan]

Wilfork has earned every cent he collects from the Patriots. He's played on reasonable contracts for the majority of his career whilst regularly commanding double teams. Whilst I agree that you pay for the future you also pay for past performance. That is how you build a team and reward players. It's not just take take take RI Patriots fan.

Next time a player complains about outperforming his contract and demands a significant raise, you should rethink your position.

Patriots don't pay a player for past performance unless they think it's an indicator of future performance. That's one of the reasons for their excellent return on investment.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Of course teams have the option to release players it's more the level of disrespect certain posters are showing to a future Patriots HOFer in the interest of penny-pinching.

Teams pay players for past performance and future performance. I'm not entering debate on that fact.

It's not a matter of "disrespect". It's a matter of "that's the facts of life".

Good business people make sound business decisions. You don't keep a player simply because of who he is and you don't pay a player for what he did in the past just to "honor" him. That's simply foolish.

Heck, if Tom Brady were one millimeter less great than Mallet (and the evidence strongly suggested it would be that way going forward) I would trade Tom Brady in a heartbeat becuase that's what good teams do...they trade away aging stars with big contracts.

"Penny-pinching" as you call it is what good business people do and in the NFL with it's salary cap, ROI is the bottom line and there is zero room for sentimentality (at least for people who want to win).

 

[Huckleberry1]

Throughout the offseason last year and leading into this season Vince Wilfork was considered by pretty much everyone to be the cornerstone of the Patriots defense and their best defensive player, but then he was injured, so he sucks, so cut him.

Just another one of Belichick's wasted draft picks.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Throughout the offseason last year and leading into this season Vince Wilfork was considered by pretty much everyone to be the cornerstone of the Patriots defense and their best defensive player, but then he was injured, so he sucks, so cut him.

Just another one of Belichick's wasted draft picks.

Things change in football, sometimes very quickly. Injuries will do that especially if a player is on the "wrong" side of 30.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Things change in football, sometimes very quickly. Injuries will do that especially if a player is on the "wrong" side of 30.

Which is why you construct and reconstruct deals to try and deal with those issues, however going from " he's the best" "cut him" is borderline idiotic. Vince Wilfork is over 30, and he was before he was injured, he's coming off a serious injury and his contract needed to be restructured before he was even injured, and everyone knew it, however he doesn't suck and he has NEVER had a bad season and in fact has played like HOF NT week in and week out for his entire career. If he can get healthy and be ready fro the season he will in all likelihood continue to be one of the best NT's in football for a few more seasons. Should they redo his deal to reflect their concerns, absolutely, should they simply treat him like trash and cut him, absolutely not. If Wilfork refuses to restructure or refuses a reasonable offer from the Patriots, as Miguel has outlined then i can see releasing him, as the team comes first, but if he will agree to an incentive laden restructure that reflects his value to their team and addresses their concerns then by all means they should have him finish his career here.

The Patriots are the 2nd youngest team in football and much of that youth, including their young DT's and DL is on their defense, and both Belichick and Parcells put a premium on having veteran players with a team first attitude leading their units, and Wilfork fits that perfectly.

That said regardless of what anyone here says Belichick and the Patriots are going to try to get Wilfork to restructure his deal, unless he changes his mind and retires first, they aren't going to treat him like garbage and just discard him because he was injured playing for them.

 

[mayoclinic]

He doesn't have to run pass patterns, or cut back and forth like a running back. How did Mankins [a 300 lb man who...]play a season with a blown ACL? Could he have run pass patterns all game? I don't think so.

I'm not the one here pretending to know all the answers, but I do have some questions for one who does.

Wilfork ruptured his Achilles tendon. It's the largest and strongest tendon in the body, and is responsible for all efforts involving "pushing off" with the foot. Age and obesity are both risk factors for Achilles tendon rupture, and most occur as non-contact injuries in athletes. The most common age for injury is between 30 and 40 - when circulation begins to become compromised at the micro-vascular level, but when athletes are still trying to perform at an elite level.

We'll never know, but I strongly suspect that Wilfork's "foot injury" listed on the injury report earlier this season was tendonitis of his Achilles tendon, and that he tried to play through it. It would account for why he had no power pushing off and was pushed around by Vlad Ducasse in the first Jets game. It would also be consistent with the tendon finally rupturing completely 2 games later against Atlanta.

Players have come back from Achilles' injuries, even those requiring surgery. Terrell Suggs took only 5 months last year. It's arguable whether he's been the same player he was before the injury. Isaiah Thomas was never the same after his Achilles' rupture. There aren't a lot of case reports of 325+lb. (conservatively) 32 year old defensive tackles coming back from such an injury. Wilfork's entire game involves anchoring and pushing off against 300+lb. NFL linemen, and I personally doubt that he'll ever have the same power or explosiveness that he did prior to the injury.

The other factor to keep in mind is that both of Wilfork's parents had diabetes. While Wilfork himself hasn't been diagnosed with diabetes, his strong family history could suggest that he may have some degree of micro-circulatory compromise, which could affect healing and recovery. His weight will most certainly be a factor.

Add it all up, and I'm very dubious that we'll ever see the 2004-2012 vintage Wilfork or anything close to it, and I would be surprised if he is able to play with any significant effectiveness in 2014.

Should the Patriots find some way to "take care" of Wilfork and reward him for his immense contributions to the team? Certainly. But to do so under the salary cap would be extremely risky. Any attempt to "restructure" Wilfork probably just means moving money further out into the future for a player who is unlikely to play again at a meaningful level. I doubt it's the money that's the issue; it's the direction of the team, and the ability under the cap to move in another direction.

It's a horrible situation. I understand the sentiment. But personally, I think you have to move on from Wilfork as a player, and find another way to take care of him or reward him for past contributions.

 

[Miguel]

The Patriots are the 2nd youngest team in football

I have seen that and wondered what that is based on.

Is that including the players on IR?

 

[RayClay]

Wilfork ruptured his Achilles tendon. It's the largest and strongest tendon in the body, and is responsible for all efforts involving "pushing off" with the foot. Age and obesity are both risk factors for Achilles tendon rupture, and most occur as non-contact injuries in athletes. The most common age for injury is between 30 and 40 - when circulation begins to become compromised at the micro-vascular level, but when athletes are still trying to perform at an elite level.

We'll never know, but I strongly suspect that Wilfork's "foot injury" listed on the injury report earlier this season was tendonitis of his Achilles tendon, and that he tried to play through it. It would account for why he had no power pushing off and was pushed around by Vlad Ducasse in the first Jets game. It would also be consistent with the tendon finally rupturing completely 2 games later against Atlanta.

Players have come back from Achilles' injuries, even those requiring surgery. Terrell Suggs took only 5 months last year. It's arguable whether he's been the same player he was before the injury. Isaiah Thomas was never the same after his Achilles' rupture. There aren't a lot of case reports of 325+lb. (conservatively) 32 year old defensive tackles coming back from such an injury. Wilfork's entire game involves anchoring and pushing off against 300+lb. NFL linemen, and I personally doubt that he'll ever have the same power or explosiveness that he did prior to the injury.

The other factor to keep in mind is that both of Wilfork's parents had diabetes. While Wilfork himself hasn't been diagnosed with diabetes, his strong family history could suggest that he may have some degree of micro-circulatory compromise, which could affect healing and recovery. His weight will most certainly be a factor.

Add it all up, and I'm very dubious that we'll ever see the 2004-2012 vintage Wilfork or anything close to it, and I would be surprised if he is able to play with any significant effectiveness in 2014.

Should the Patriots find some way to "take care" of Wilfork and reward him for his immense contributions to the team? Certainly. But to do so under the salary cap would be extremely risky. Any attempt to "restructure" Wilfork probably just means moving money further out into the future for a player who is unlikely to play again at a meaningful level. I doubt it's the money that's the issue; it's the direction of the team, and the ability under the cap to move in another direction.

It's a horrible situation. I understand the sentiment. But personally, I think you have to move on from Wilfork as a player, and find another way to take care of him or reward him for past contributions.

He might retire. Or he might be able to play, but not at his previous level.

I don't believe we have any medical specialists in this thread (you're user name notwithstanding), so I'm not sure if there are experts on whether he can take on double teams while being less mobile than he was before. If he can, he's better than an average NT.

 

[Patsrock]

I have seen that and wondered what that is based on.

Is that including the players on IR?

This was at the 53 man roster cutdown day

Pats were 11th youngest

Ranking all 32 NFL teams by average age | For The Win

 

[mayoclinic]

He might retire. Or he might be able to play, but not at his previous level.

I don't believe we have any medical specialists in this thread (you're user name notwithstanding), so I'm not sure if there are experts on whether he can take on double teams while being less mobile than he was before. If he can, he's better than an average NT.

I'm a physician with 20+ years clinical practice, but I'm not an orthopedic surgeon specializing in sports injuries (I'm an anesthesiologist). I've spent the bulk of my career specializing in trauma, so I'm very familiar with musculoskeletal injuries, and I have discussed this with some orthopedic colleagues specializing in traumatic injuries. I don't think anyone can predict for certain whether Wilfork can come back form this, but you have to factor in the magnitude of the injury, his weight, his family history of diabetes, and his age against the fact that he is extremely motivated, both financially and by pride. I'd personally say the odds are against him, but that doesn't guarantee that he can't beat them. It does, however, factor in to making a decision about how to go forward for the team.

I'm not worried about Wilfork's mobility, I'm worried about his ability to plant off his foot and drive from his lower legs effectively. That's the bread and butter of his business.

Again, no one will no for sure until the experiment actually occurs, but based on my professional experience, I'm skeptical.

 

[Brady6]

Of course teams have the option to release players it's more the level of disrespect certain posters are showing to a future Patriots HOFer in the interest of penny-pinching.

Teams pay players for past performance and future performance. I'm not entering debate on that fact.

I don’t think anyone would have a problem overpaying Wilfork to have him remain with the team but right now his cap # is beyond the scope of overpayment and in the realm of ludicrous. Below is a list of the top 20 cap hits for the DTs in the NFL and I can say confidently I don’t think any of the 3 names in front of Wilfork will be entering 2014 with their current contract in tact either.

1. Ndamukong Suh-$22,412,500
2. Haloti Ngata- $16,000,000
3. Gerald McCoy-$15,627,253
4. Vince Wilfork-$11,600,000
5. Geno Atkins-$9,000,000
6. Ahtyba Rubin-$8,175,000
7. Barry Cofield-$7,677,500
8. Marcell Dareus-$6,493,232
9. Kyle Williams-$6,250,000
10. Brodrick Bunkley-$6,112,500
11. Kendall Langford-$6,000,000
12. Brandon Mebane-$5,700,000
13. Ricky Jean-Francois-$5,125,000
14. Letroy Guion-$4,300,000
15. Sen'Derrick Marks-$4,225,000
16. Domata Peko-$4,165,000
17. Tyson Alualu-$4,164,000
18. Sammie Lee Hill-$4,066,666
19. Desmond Bryant-$4,000,000
20. Isaac Sopoaga-$3,500,000

They’re not penny pinching Wilfork AB; I don’t think the Patriots or Wilfork ever anticipated this cap # making it onto the 2014 seasons book, I think the contract was structured in a way that it incented Wilfork to restructure in order to get more guaranteed years of pay and incented the Patriots to restructure in order to free up cap space. For the record Wilfork is only scheduled to receive $7,700,000 during 2014 he is not actually receiving the $11,600,000 that his cap # would make you think. If I had to guess they will turn his deal into a 3 year $12,000,000 contract with $8,000,000 or so guaranteed, this will bring his cap hit over the next 3 seasons to around $3-4 million depending on how they structure it. Wilfork will end up with $300,000 more guaranteed money and a chance to earn another $4,300,000 on top of that, which = a win, win.

 

[RayClay]

I'm a physician with 20+ years clinical practice, but I'm not an orthopedic surgeon specializing in sports injuries (I'm an anesthesiologist). I've spent the bulk of my career specializing in trauma, so I'm very familiar with musculoskeletal injuries, and I have discussed this with some orthopedic colleagues specializing in traumatic injuries. I don't think anyone can predict for certain whether Wilfork can come back form this, but you have to factor in the magnitude of the injury, his weight, his family history of diabetes, and his age against the fact that he is extremely motivated, both financially and by pride. I'd personally say the odds are against him, but that doesn't guarantee that he can't beat them. It does, however, factor in to making a decision about how to go forward for the team.

I'm not worried about Wilfork's mobility, I'm worried about his ability to plant off his foot and drive from his lower legs effectively. That's the bread and butter of his business.

Again, no one will no for sure until the experiment actually occurs, but based on my professional experience, I'm skeptical.

Fair enough.

 

[pazrul72]

I love Vince WIlfork, bought his jersey this year and wore it proudly all season. He has been a model patriot and someone I enjoy rooting for. He has been the heart and soul of the defense for years now and that is not something that can just be replaced by any FA or rookie. I believe in Vince and expect him to be back. Call it a hunch, but in that interview where he said he could play RB, QB, Kicker.....just something in his eyes, he will be back.

Now for the sad realities, he is 33 coming off of a MAJOR injury. It is almost impossible to expect him to be the player he has been his entire career. My personal expectations is he will go from being one of the best in the business to merely an average NFL player. Which is still worth while and for all the people sayig to cut him I want some of thier drugs. Vince is a smart guy and I believe a realistic one. He also married a very shrewd business woman in Bianca and is deeply tied to the community. I am sure he wants to retire a patriot and is a sure fire first round patriot HOFer which can translate to endorsement money and the such.

I would offer the following restructure/extention and thanks to Brady 6 for posting the top 20 NT money because its more then I thought it would take. Get rid of his old contract and pay him a base salary of 3.5 -4 million which is average starter NT money this year. Write in language that if he plays 60% of the snaps he can get another 2 million with another million for pro bowl or elite production. Then in year two and three we know for sure what we are getting and have the salary/bonuses work out to 6-7 mil per. So a 3 year 16-18 million deal with the first year being average starter money and a chance for Vince to prove he is still as good as he was and a chance to get paid like a very good NT but protection for the pats in that they can cut him if he is not the player he once was. Either way I hope they go DT with the first round pick this year because a replacement needs to be found.

 

[kennyb]

I don’t think anyone would have a problem overpaying Wilfork to have him remain with the team but right now his cap # is beyond the scope of overpayment and in the realm of ludicrous. Below is a list of the top 20 cap hits for the DTs in the NFL and I can say confidently I don’t think any of the 3 names in front of Wilfork will be entering 2014 with their current contract in tact either.

1. Ndamukong Suh-$22,412,500
2. Haloti Ngata- $16,000,000
3. Gerald McCoy-$15,627,253
4. Vince Wilfork-$11,600,000
5. Geno Atkins-$9,000,000
6. Ahtyba Rubin-$8,175,000
7. Barry Cofield-$7,677,500
8. Marcell Dareus-$6,493,232
9. Kyle Williams-$6,250,000
10. Brodrick Bunkley-$6,112,500
11. Kendall Langford-$6,000,000
12. Brandon Mebane-$5,700,000
13. Ricky Jean-Francois-$5,125,000
14. Letroy Guion-$4,300,000
15. Sen'Derrick Marks-$4,225,000
16. Domata Peko-$4,165,000
17. Tyson Alualu-$4,164,000
18. Sammie Lee Hill-$4,066,666
19. Desmond Bryant-$4,000,000
20. Isaac Sopoaga-$3,500,000

They’re not penny pinching Wilfork AB; I don’t think the Patriots or Wilfork ever anticipated this cap # making it onto the 2014 seasons book, I think the contract was structured in a way that it incented Wilfork to restructure in order to get more guaranteed years of pay and incented the Patriots to restructure in order to free up cap space. For the record Wilfork is only scheduled to receive $7,700,000 during 2014 he is not actually receiving the $11,600,000 that his cap # would make you think. If I had to guess they will turn his deal into a 3 year $12,000,000 contract with $8,000,000 or so guaranteed, this will bring his cap hit over the next 3 seasons to around $3-4 million depending on how they structure it. Wilfork will end up with $300,000 more guaranteed money and a chance to earn another $4,300,000 on top of that, which = a win, win.

It isn't win win if he can't play. If he can't then the pats have 8 m on cap hits for the guarantee. They'd have to be incompetent to guarantee 8m to a guy who may never play again at all.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Actually I've given several "logical" reasons that not a single person has disputed yet. I will try once more listing them and maybe....just maybe, someone will answer them without thinking we have "Wilfork 2010" coming through the door.


1.) Wilfork will be 33 years old next season

2.) Wilfork is gravely out of shape

3.) Wilfork played poorly last season

4.) Wilfork is coming off a very serious injury that most people don't come back from.


So yes...."no way in hell".

I hope someone douses you with offensive lineman blood, because.....

 

[RI Patriots fan]

I hope someone douses you with offensive lineman blood, because.....

Um...no he won't.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Which is why you construct and reconstruct deals to try and deal with those issues, however going from " he's the best" "cut him" is borderline idiotic. Vince Wilfork is over 30, and he was before he was injured, he's coming off a serious injury and his contract needed to be restructured before he was even injured, and everyone knew it, however he doesn't suck and he has NEVER had a bad season and in fact has played like HOF NT week in and week out for his entire career. If he can get healthy and be ready fro the season he will in all likelihood continue to be one of the best NT's in football for a few more seasons. Should they redo his deal to reflect their concerns, absolutely, should they simply treat him like trash and cut him, absolutely not. If Wilfork refuses to restructure or refuses a reasonable offer from the Patriots, as Miguel has outlined then i can see releasing him, as the team comes first, but if he will agree to an incentive laden restructure that reflects his value to their team and addresses their concerns then by all means they should have him finish his career here.

The Patriots are the 2nd youngest team in football and much of that youth, including their young DT's and DL is on their defense, and both Belichick and Parcells put a premium on having veteran players with a team first attitude leading their units, and Wilfork fits that perfectly.

That said regardless of what anyone here says Belichick and the Patriots are going to try to get Wilfork to restructure his deal, unless he changes his mind and retires first, they aren't going to treat him like garbage and just discard him because he was injured playing for them.

He's not..."the best"....and after this surgery he might be lucky to be playing at all in the league. He was terrible at the beginning of this past year and if you think that having a ruptured achilles and being a year older (and 33 years old) will somehow make him "better"....well, that's idiotic thinking.

How exactly would you "restructure" his compensation? Pay him what he's not worth and spread it over several years so we can have more dead money on the books. Now that's brilliant!

Cutting someone isn't treating them like garbage...it's life in the NFL. It's happens to the majority of players. The Patriots will not make a single personnel move based upon "feelings". The decision will be cold and heartless and will be based strickly on ROI and that is what I love about the Patriots and why they have been so successful since Bob Kraft took over.

 

[Brady6]

It isn't win win if he can't play. If he can't then the pats have 8 m on cap hits for the guarantee. They'd have to be incompetent to guarantee 8m to a guy who may never play again at all.

Yeah well I'm sure they can insert some type of injury clause. The only win for this team if he is healthy is to restructure otherwise if we cut him we may save $7.5 mil but we're still left with a $4 mil cap hit and getting nothing from him.

 

[kennyb]

Yeah well I'm sure they can insert some type of injury clause. The only win for this team if he is healthy is to restructure otherwise if we cut him we may save $7.5 mil but we're still left with a $4 mil cap hit and getting nothing from him.

The cap hit if they cut him is like 2.8. But that's a sunk cost. Same cap hit if he's cut or restructured.

They'd have to restructure to vet min plus incentives. That would free up about 8m in cap space. He may not go for that as he's probably got 20 million in the bank. Guarantee 8m and extend for 3 years and the cap hit would be 4.8m this year even if cut. Then another 6m next yea if cut. That would be problematic.

Pats can't protect themselves by guaranteeing money to a guy who may not be able to play.

 

[ausbacker]

I don’t think anyone would have a problem overpaying Wilfork to have him remain with the team but right now his cap # is beyond the scope of overpayment and in the realm of ludicrous. Below is a list of the top 20 cap hits for the DTs in the NFL and I can say confidently I don’t think any of the 3 names in front of Wilfork will be entering 2014 with their current contract in tact either.

1. Ndamukong Suh-$22,412,500
2. Haloti Ngata- $16,000,000
3. Gerald McCoy-$15,627,253
4. Vince Wilfork-$11,600,000
5. Geno Atkins-$9,000,000
6. Ahtyba Rubin-$8,175,000
7. Barry Cofield-$7,677,500
8. Marcell Dareus-$6,493,232
9. Kyle Williams-$6,250,000
10. Brodrick Bunkley-$6,112,500
11. Kendall Langford-$6,000,000
12. Brandon Mebane-$5,700,000
13. Ricky Jean-Francois-$5,125,000
14. Letroy Guion-$4,300,000
15. Sen'Derrick Marks-$4,225,000
16. Domata Peko-$4,165,000
17. Tyson Alualu-$4,164,000
18. Sammie Lee Hill-$4,066,666
19. Desmond Bryant-$4,000,000
20. Isaac Sopoaga-$3,500,000

They’re not penny pinching Wilfork AB; I don’t think the Patriots or Wilfork ever anticipated this cap # making it onto the 2014 seasons book, I think the contract was structured in a way that it incented Wilfork to restructure in order to get more guaranteed years of pay and incented the Patriots to restructure in order to free up cap space. For the record Wilfork is only scheduled to receive $7,700,000 during 2014 he is not actually receiving the $11,600,000 that his cap # would make you think. If I had to guess they will turn his deal into a 3 year $12,000,000 contract with $8,000,000 or so guaranteed, this will bring his cap hit over the next 3 seasons to around $3-4 million depending on how they structure it. Wilfork will end up with $300,000 more guaranteed money and a chance to earn another $4,300,000 on top of that, which = a win, win.

When posters say cut Wilfork to save money that is the definition of penny pinching. I don't have an issue with re-working Wilfork's contract but the guy deserves every penny he gets from New England.

Wilfork was ridiculously dominant in 2011 and 2012. Perhaps people have conveniently forgotten how crap the Patriots interior run D was in 2013 minus Wilfork and Mayo. I have my reservations that Wilfork can return to the player he was but I'm willing to see how the cards fall before throwing the contract card in his face.