Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

[Toofy]

I don't think tom would have stuck around anyways. The cap situation, lack of talent, tom ambitions were all at crossroads. Really doubt that tom left because of money or two year contract . Tom complained of weapons, Bill tried to address through Sanu, Harry and Ab.

Everything spectacularly flopped. Murphys law when everything you touch turns rotten. We had the rub of green for a good part in last 2 decades and for 2 years in a row it stunk.

We are not used to pats playing like the jets and the fact that we continued with cam just irritated the hell out of all fans including myself. When Cassell, brissett,Jimmy all backups were decent, it was really impossible to think that stidham the backup qb could stink so much.

So that frustration along with the usual irritation of drafting second round bust DBs has compounded this year on the last men standing i.e. bill and Josh. Is it legitimate to blame them. Maybe 20%.

But next season will tell us how they do.. when Brian flores can do it in 2 seasons , hoping Bill can do the same . If we hit another sub .5 season, Bill is walking on thin ice and I wouldn't be surprised if he hangs his boots...

 

[Biffins]

1. The Pats had about fifty bucks of cap space.

2. The Pats did try to get Brady weapons. They signed Antonio Brown. They drafted a WR in the first round. They traded for Sanu ( Brady's choice).

3. They went to four of the last six Super Bowls and won three.

4. Because of cap space management, free agent signings, coaching and etc etc... the Pats have had a unprecedented twenty year run resulting in 13 AFCCG appearances, 9 Super Bowl appearances and Six wins.

5. Belichick and Brady were together Six years longer than the next successful tandem. Six years. They got tired of each other?

6. For whatever reason, and I don't care what the reason was, their relationship soured. They got divorced.

7. The cap space was a factor. Did BB have some poor drafts? Yes. But did he try to surround Brady with weapons? Yes he did.

Not aiming this at the OP but WTF.

What a bunch of whiny sniveling twits.

If you're *****ing and are.....

Over 40 - phuck off. You've never had a better twenty year ride in your life. And half of you probably got married and divorced during the ride.

30 - 40 - phuck off. You're too young to realize that you had the best ride of your life. And half of you are probably filing for divorce after ten years of marriage.

20-30. -. Phuck off. You were born into a dynasty and was fed great moment after great moment with the proverbial golden spoon. What a bunch of spoiled pink hats.

10-20. - There's still hope for you. Slap your pink hat dad a couple of times for me. Will you?

BB built a playoff team in Cleveland. He built the Patriots into a Dynasty and he'll build them up again. No doubt in my mind.

I truly don't understand this "who was more valuable" bull shyt because the answer is they both supplied us an incredible twenty year run.

I love both Brady and BB. I'm enjoying watching Brady do his thing down in Tampa and I'm enjoying watching BB rebuilding the Pats.

Will he rebuild the Pats to what they were over the last twenty years? No. It's impossible. The BB/TB dynamic has only happened once in NFL history. It was special. Will BB rebuild the Pats into playoff contenders? Absolutely.

WTF is this. Are we supposed to grovel before King BB and kiss his feet no matter how he fcks up in future and no matter what mistakes he makes. He's an arrogant sonofa***** and he's going to soon find, as are you, that this is League is all about "what have you done for me lately". Fans or ownership won't tolerate another 2 losing seasons without repecussions.

Yes BB helped us win Championships.

YES BB ROYALLY FCKED UP BY JETTISONING BRADY 2-3 YEARS TOO EARLY.

Both the above statements are true.

 

[1960Pats]

The whole NFL system is set up to prevent dynasties from happening. Worst teams draft first, cap space, scheduling etc etc. A ten year run is incredible. A twenty year run is unbelievable. A bad couple of years to reset is not too much to ask for.

I think there's no reason why the Pats couldn't have reset with Brady and that all he may have needed was a nudge to stay. Losing because we have no QB at all makes it worse.

 

[Wozzy]

I dobt think tom would have stuck around anyways. The cap situation, lack of talent, tom ambitions were all at crossroads. Really doubt that tom left because of money or two year contract . Tom complained of weapons, Bill tried to address through Sanu, Harry and Ab.

Everything spectacularly flopped. Murphys law when everything you touch turns rotten. We had the run of green for a good part in last 2 decades and for 2 years in a row it stunk.

We are not used to pats playing like the jets and the fact that we continued with cam just irritated the hell out of all fans including myself. When Cassell, brissett,Jimmy all backups were decent, it was really impossible to think that stidham could stink so much.

So that frustration along with the usual irritation after draft has compounded this year on the last men standing i.e. bill and Josh. Is it legitimate to blame them. Maybe 20%.

But next season will tell us how they do.. when Brian flores can do it in 2 seasons , hoping Bill can do the same . If we hit another sub .5 season, Bill is walking on thin ice and I wouldn't be surprised if he hangs his boots...

The cap space accumulated and snowballed until 2019, after that it became an untenable situation.

They couldn't afford to sign Tom, veteran weapons and free agents.

He didn't want to start over with two rookie TE's, rookie and sophomore WR's, rookie LB'ers... and there would have been more untested rookies had they used that money on Brady because the guys they did keep (Thuney, DMC and more) would be gone.

There was nowhere to go but to start over.

I'm sure all the geniuses in the media will tell you it was easy to figure out, but all they do for a living is come to sites like these to steal things to talk about and create clickbait.

 

[Wozzy]

 

[Toofy]

The cap space accumulated and snowballed until 2019, after that it became an untenable situation.

They couldn't afford to sign Tom, veteran weapons and free agents.

He didn't want to start over with two rookie TE's, rookie and sophomore WR's, rookie LB'ers... and there would have been more untested rookies had they used that money on Brady because the guys they did keep (Thuney, DMC and more) would be gone.

There was nowhere to go but to start over.

I'm sure all the geniuses in the media will tell you it was easy to figure out, but all they do for a living is come to sites like these to steal things to talk about and create clickbait.

No I get that..

The lack of talent overall in the team and no qb and doubts in our ability to draft anybody half decent in first two drafts are what are making people jittery and angry with Bill.

I think we need to see few breakout stars this season either through free agency or rookie player improvement...

Harry is probably the butterfly effect for peoples anger on Bill and Josh. Its luck of the draw , but it just coincided with brady leaving and him having poor seasons than udfa ...

We rarely draft first rounders and when they just keep turning into average players and duds it has reached a simmering point this year . And let's not get started on the defensive backs...

And belichicks arrogance this year in wake of a losing season is not sitting well on a perception front... you can strut a steve jobs personality only if you keep rolling apple products, not when you are rolling out Motorola products...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Evans is an overrated WR. Check out his catch rates. He’s a volume player.

Judging by the other names you’ve listed you are being dishonest. The RBs are JAGs. Gronk is a blocking TE. Antonio Brown is arguably a shell of himself.

I’m all about the concept of Tom elevating the offense and the Bucs not being the super spectacular offense they’re made out to be. They’re really good, but it’s not like the totality of their skill players is clearly better than a handful of other teams.

They’re lacking a pass catching running back which really hurts their offense. Jones sucks in space and Fournette is below average; both are bad at catching passes and lack quickness for YAC. Vaughn is their best option, but they don’t use him since he’s a rookie and Arians stubbornness.

I also was disappointed in Evans for awhile, thinking he was more of a low efficiency deep pass guy who wasn’t going to mesh with Brady.

But if you look at the last 5-6 games, Evans has been absolutely spectacular. He‘s been running every type of route and succeeding. Evans is the closest WR to Calvin Johnson at 6’5” and not being a skinny guy like Moss. He is a really tall guy with exceptional jumping ability and wingspan; he has phenomenal hands; most unique is his ability to adjust to routed quickly. Brady has thrown to him numerous times where the ball is at his feet and he’s able to get to his knees, scoop it up, and make it look easy. His smoothness is really remarkable. I think he’s been used inefficiently in the past.

 

[Tony2046]

I like Brady and was rooting for him to put up video game numbers this year and maybe win a ring. But the Brady-only fans with a weird agenda to somehow ultimately make Belichick look bad, makes it less fun to fully root for Brady if idiots are going to make this some sort of stupid binary competition.


.

There's only a few yahoos on both sides doing that. I'd say most like both.

 

[Tony2046]

Couldn't agree more. I love Tom like the brother I never had.

The idea that there could be Patriot fans who "hate" Tom is absurd... the reality is the fanboys are making it difficult to enjoy watching the final chapters of his career. The separation was the best thing for both sides, but in these psycho's minds somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. It's childish...

I also don't dismiss the likelihood of a large media presence here and the other Patriot's board who have been waiting forever to get back at Bill.

I'm enjoying both stories. BB's rebuild and Brady's last few years. The yahoos be damned.

 

[1960Pats]

Go back and read the thread over again, repeating myself to another cheerleader is exhausting.

3 rings/4 appearances = blatant missteps

BB sucks, but you're really smart... got it.

C'mon, nobody's saying that Bill sucks. No Pats fan in his right mind would want him replaced as the HC. But he isn't perfect.

Let's look at the overall picture.
1 - After the Pats had their first run Brady got injured at the last days of that awesome defense that ended around 09
2 - Then they had their version of a drought (two SB losses) while they replenished the team again.
3 - The next run started to show up with the more complete team you're describing from 2014-2018.
4 - And now the problems seem to be mounting because the Pats drafts haven't been as strong, the cap has caught up with them and Brady is gone.

Then we all thought that the Pats would have a poor team this year and lo and behold, they actually looked pretty damn good this year. Their only problem was they didn't have a pro-level QB, and after letting the GOAT walk, many of us got frustrated at the situation. And some of us were just plain saddened by Brady's departure because we wanted him to finish his career here, no matter the record.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I’m all about the concept of Tom elevating the offense and the Bucs not being the super spectacular offense they’re made out to be. They’re really good, but it’s not like the totality of their skill players is clearly better than a handful of other teams.

They’re lacking a pass catching running back which really hurts their offense. Jones sucks in space and Fournette is below average; both are bad at catching passes and lack quickness for YAC. Vaughn is their best option, but they don’t use him since he’s a rookie and Arians stubbornness.

I also was disappointed in Evans for awhile, thinking he was more of a low efficiency deep pass guy who wasn’t going to mesh with Brady.

But if you look at the last 5-6 games, Evans has been absolutely spectacular. He‘s been running every type of route and succeeding. Evans is the closest WR to Calvin Johnson at 6’5” and not being a skinny guy like Moss. He is a really tall guy with exceptional jumping ability and wingspan; he has phenomenal hands; most unique is his ability to adjust to routed quickly. Brady has thrown to him numerous times where the ball is at his feet and he’s able to get to his knees, scoop it up, and make it look easy. His smoothness is really remarkable. I think he’s been used inefficiently in the past.

Agreed. They are using Evans more efficiently as 109 targets is the fewest in a season in his career. His usage & production is similar to Lafell in 2014 except Evans is more talented. He's been awesome in the redzone.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Agreed. They are using Evans more efficiently as 109 targets is the fewest in a season in his career. His usage & production is similar to Lafell in 2014 except Evans is more talented. He's been awesome in the redzone.

I don’t know where I posted it, but it was a stat breakdown of Evans this year compared to other years in his career. His yards per catch is down, but his yards per target is up, both by quite a bit. Completion percentage up.

You win games by moving the chains and picking up first downs, and by converting those red zone opportunities into touchdowns. Deep plays are great, but not if they cost you a lot of incompletions (and interceptions obviously.)

And a lot of the season was a chemistry building, trial by error process, as well as a bad high ankle sprain. Post-bye the Brady-Evans connection is averaging like 14.5 yards per attempt, which off the charts good, I’m almost certain it is the best in the league - by a comfortable margin - over that timeframe.

I suspect during the bye week, Brady spent a lot of time with the receivers.

 

[Wozzy]

C'mon, nobody's saying that Bill sucks. No Pats fan in his right mind would want him replaced as the HC. But he isn't perfect.

Let's look at the overall picture.
1 - After the Pats had their first run Brady got injured at the last days of that awesome defense that ended around 09
2 - Then they had their version of a drought (two SB losses) while they replenished the team again.
3 - The next run started to show up with the more complete team you're describing from 2014-2018.
4 - And now the problems seem to be mounting because the Pats drafts haven't been as strong, the cap has caught up with them and Brady is gone.

Then we all thought that the Pats would have a poor team this year and lo and behold, they actually looked pretty damn good this year. Their only problem was they didn't have a pro-level QB, and after letting the GOAT walk, many of us got frustrated at the situation. And some of us were just plain saddened by Brady's departure because we wanted him to finish his career here, no matter the record.

Yes, they are saying Bill sucks and only won because of Brady. They couch it by saying he's a good coach when confronted or "I wouldn't want anyone else," but he's bad at drafting and everything else. It's horsesht and frankly I'm sick of all the moaning.

Also this idea that there's a cult of Belichick who rubber stamp every move is garbage. In 2019 I slammed him for not taking a TE in that draft, first when he passed on Dawson Knox, then I really let him have it when he passed on Foster Moreau. I hated the Duke Dawson, Dominique Easley and numerous other picks. I said Kony Ealy was weak and a waste of time.

There is no cult of Belichick. There certainly and absolutely is a gaggle of Brady zealots who think he walks on water and can do no wrong.... they're the ones getting angina over the Patriots realizing it was time to move on. There's also a large contingent of media members who have waited two decades to dance on Bill's grave for being aloof and tight lipped. They are playing on the emotions of the weak willed and emotional cripples. F them, F em all... I'm out.

 

[ashley]

Super bowl 53 vs the Rams.

BB yells , "intercept it" right when Goff releases the ball. I've always been curious if that was something they had worked on as well.

Yeah, forgot about that one Tony, that's another great example....

 

[chasa]

I remember at this time last year, we were talking about if Brady had regressed passed a point of no return. The answer is a resounding no, the roster in 2019 was full of scrubs on offense with an injured Edelman. Brady now has AB,Evans, Godwin and Gronk back and his completion percentage rose from 60% to 65% and he has thrown 40 touchdown passes this year. Colin Cowherd said it best, Rivers Brees and Ben look old but Brady is still playing great and defying time. If Bill had agreed to try and get some more weapons on offense, maybe TB would have accepted less money to stay in NE.

Brady had ZERO intention of resigning with the patriots.
there was ZERO chance he was coming back. He no longer was going to non mandatory otas, he spent the whole season complaining, including when we were 8-0
he made no effort to gel with the rookies.

The team wasted a ton of cap money on antonio brown, drafted a #1 receiver, traded mid season for a receiver. nothing was good enough for Tom.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Brady had ZERO intention of resigning with the patriots.
there was ZERO chance he was coming back. He no longer was going to non mandatory otas, he spent the whole season complaining, including when we were 8-0
he made no effort to gel with the rookies.

The team wasted a ton of cap money on antonio brown, drafted a #1 receiver, traded mid season for a receiver. nothing was good enough for Tom.

It was mutual. BB was moving on from him
too.

 

[crawhammer]

The separation was the best thing for both sides, but in these psycho's minds somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. It's childish...

You were saying?

 

[pazrul72]

Look you hate Brady so much that you're blaming their 2019 downfall on his injuries which you're totally embellishing. Brady didn't miss a snap in 2019 due to injury. So he was fine, if he wasn't then he wouldn't have played, that's a fact. What's next?... You're going to say the offense struggled in December because Brady skipped OTA's in April?

Totally embellishing? Brady had a grapefruit sized lump on his throwing elbow. He might not have missed a snap but he missed multiple practices every week for a month. Not to mention the 18 pounds of wrap on his toe. Honestly your inconsistency hurts my head. You would think Brady playing thru injuries would make you admire him more but instead you down play one of Brady’s biggest strengths, just how freakin tough he is. Now if you seriously can’t see how Brady’s injuries affected his play then you clearly know nothing about evaluating QB‘s. For the longest time when people were saying Brady couldn’t make all the throws I had no idea what they were talking about. He still had the same zip, the accuracy, great footwork, and a beautiful spiral.

Last year was the first time I had to question if it was age or the injury but he definitely looked off. Brady lost about 5% of his zip on out routes which doesn’t sound like much but in the NFL that’s the difference of a tight window catch and a pick 6. He had multiple of those. I don’t have the exact stats but I remember a graph showing how deadly it was to blitz Brady most years, to the tune of a 100+ passer rating, but in 2019 he was dead last. Yes his weapons last year weren’t great but I remember plenty of times he would hit guys down low and away on crossers. Too many times those throws ended up in the dirt 5 yards in front of his guys even when they were open.

I love Tom Brady, all the respect in the world for the man, I wish my kids turn out 1/4 as classy and genuinely good as he is, but the honest truth of the 2019 offense is he was part of the problem. This year clearly shows it was injuries but the question of if a 42 year old man can come back from that, or if he wouldn’t have those kind of injuries every year from now on, was not an unreasonable one and I do not blame BB one bit for moving on.

 

[carmelo15]

I like Brady and was rooting for him to put up video game numbers this year and maybe win a ring. But the Brady-only fans with a weird agenda to somehow ultimately make Belichick look bad, makes it less fun to fully root for Brady if idiots are going to make this some sort of stupid binary competition.


.

haha we have fools in here calling brash a system qb

 

[luuked]

They did something no other team had done since 2001-2004.

Wild unprecedented success is not "mismanagement," no matter what some media hacks or misanthropic Negative Nancy's say.

I honestly think that many of the posters that don't understand why it was impossible to keep Brady and built around him at the same time really don't understand the price of sustained success and its cumulative effect on cap space and access to highly talented cheap players through the draft.

As with most things in life it is the cumulative effect that really makes a difference (for the better or the worse). That's why most teams operate in windows where they: built, compete, rebuilt. The constant churn of talented players because of the salary cap just makes sustained success extremely difficult even if you have a HoF-level QB. Otherwise Rodgers, Brees & co would have had much more success in the past decade.

And this also makes you take chances in the draft whether that is picking someone with huge medical flags like Easley or Gronk, trading down to obtain more picks or players like with Kony Ealy or Trent Brown. Since our team doesn't have infinite cap space and rarely access to rookies that are ready to start you have to be more creative in roster building and find ways to close FA related holes in different ways.