Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?

[cmasspatsfan]

The Pats were set at running back. They were never going to take Lamar. He doesn't fit their scheme. He's one of those million dollar arm (or legs or both) and 50 cent head. That's not the kind of QB BB is looking for. (For better or worse).

Theu should have drafted Hurts, he was on their board but Philly took him right before the Pats pick.

 

[Real fan 02]

One of my regrets is that Ozzie Newsome didn't stay with Bill and end up here. He was lights out one of the best at player evaluations.

Trying to draft the correct players is a tough enough job just going for talent. When you throw in that they have to fit a particular system then it's going to be even tougher. I still wouldn't have wanted Jackson here though. I don't want a QB who can't read a defense.

Absolutely true. It's hard enough trying to draft the right guys. But.. I believe you just have to look at what the player has done, and what his potential could be. The only knock on Jackson is his durability. His playing style isn't conducive to a long-term career same with Josh Allen. I'll take a CJ stroud type all day. The issue in NE is everything is beholden to BIll.. as Joe Judge said his job is to do whatever the HC wants, whatever he ask. To make the HC happy. There isn't anyone that will challenge Bills roster decisions.

 

[Real fan 02]

Theu should have drafted Hurts, he was on their board but Philly took him right before the Pats pick.

Howie Roseman the great GM.. and Bill the GM isn't even a fair comparison.

 

[1960Pats]

Not sure I would say that Josh had a better draft history than BB. I mean BB drafted DMac and Gronk in that same draft...Jermaine Cunningham in round 2 (who was so so for us), Brandon Spikes in round 2 (he was a good downhill LB for us for a while), then Taylor Price in round 3 (3-4 picks after Decker, who never worked out for us), then Hernandez in round 4 (that did work for us until he decided to be a gangsta), Mesko in the 5th (he was exciting for a while before flaming out), Ted Larsen in round 6 wasn't bad...good back up OL-man, and then a bunch of guys in round 7 I don't remember.

Nonetheless, just the 2010 draft alone...BB won that draft for damn sure....even if he ONLY drafted Gronk.

And Brady was not happy about the Garopollo pick in 2014....but that sure worked out for us though...and we were still able to get a 2nd back...although that turned out to be Duke Dawson I think....

I mean...BB is not a terrible drafter...he takes multiple shots...hits on some...but no better nor worse than other teams. A lot of it had to do with BB not drafting higher than the #20 spot for years. Look at his body of work for early 1st: Seymour (HOF), Jerod Mayo (one of the best LB'ers we ever had), Ty Warren (a solid starting DL-man for years), Mac Jones (was a Pro-Bowler in his rookie year), and Nate Solder (was a reliable LT for years before flaming out with the Giants), and now Christian Gonzalez (who looks like our #1CB for the next 4 years). That's the list of guys he picked #6, #10, #13, #15, #17, and #17.

He has fared much better in the back end of the 1st too: Logan Mankins, DMac, Merriweather (was good for a while), Wynn/Michel, Hightower/Chan Jones, etc....with some major misses (Harry).

And did some good in round 2: Klemm (starting OT), Matt Light (Pats HOF someday), Deion Branch (key for the 2003 title team), Eugene Wilson (was OK for a while), Marquise Hill (did not contribute much before he passed away), Chad Jackson (big miss), Terrence Wheatley (so so), Chung (big hit especially in the 2nd stint), Brace (miss), Darius Butler (miss, but played OK with the Colts), Vollmer (big hit...reliable RT and even played LT on an ACL tear in 2015), Gronk (best TE of all time), Cunningham/Spikes (OK LBers for a while), Ras-I Downling (miss, but injury related, IMO), Vereen (hit, big part of the 2014 SB team), Tavon Wilson (miss), Jamie Collins (good player, but free lanced a bit too much), Aaron Dobson (miss, but man I liked him!), Jimmy G (he was a NFL starter for a while and even played in a SB), Jordan Richards (big miss), Cyrus Jones (big miss, but decent PR if he didn't fumble), Duke Dawson (ouch, but think he was OK OK with the Broncos), JoeJuan Williams (big miss), Dugger (should be a probowl S), Uche (good #2 pass rusher), Barmore (love the guy and think he's here to stay), Tyquan Thorton (looking like a miss), and Keion White (more active last Sunday).

And there were countless guys that were major contributors from rounds 3-7 and the UDFA pool: Brady (duh), Edelman (7th), Thuney (3), Jack Jones (4, before he was cut), Rham (4), Onwenu (6), Malcolm Mitchell (4, until he got hurt and retired), Elandon Roberts (6), Ted Karras (6), Trey Flowers (4), Shaq Mason (4), Bryant Stork (4, before concussions did him in, IMO), James White (4), Logan Ryan (3), Duron Harmon (3), Vereen (3), Ridley (3, before he fell off a cliff), Cannon (5, because he had NHL), Hernandez (4), Slater (5), Gostkowski (4), Cassell (7, he was a NFL starter for a while), Asante Samuel (4), Dan Koppen (5), Banta-Cain (7), David Givens (7), and J.R. Redmond (3). Then for the UDFAs: Malcolm Butler, Stephen Neal, Ben Jarvus Green Ellis, David Andrews, and a few more I am forgetting.

Dunno...hard to measure a drafter's success or lack thereof...it is an inexact science....but BB for the most part does OK when drafting high and hits enough on the back end because he takes multiple shots....

It does no good to draft or pick up talented, successful players and then dump them when they want to be fairly compensated, only to see them contribute to another team's success. I'm not going to go through that list but there's a lot of good players there, maybe a majority, that are in that category.

 

[1960Pats]

Absolutely true. It's hard enough trying to draft the right guys. But.. I believe you just have to look at what the player has done, and what his potential could be. The only knock on Jackson is his durability. His playing style isn't conducive to a long-term career same with Josh Allen. I'll take a CJ stroud type all day. The issue in NE is everything is beholden to BIll.. as Joe Judge said his job is to do whatever the HC wants, whatever he ask. To make the HC happy. There isn't anyone that will challenge Bills roster decisions.

One of the things that came out about Matt Patricia struck a chord in me and got me to thinking. Patricia threatened to end a player's career if he didn't get in line and it made me think that maybe he learned that attitude from Belichick. He clearly took on the same arrogance as Bill with the media so maybe, just maybe, he learned that type of threat from Bill too.

 

[archstanton543]

One of the things that came out about Matt Patricia struck a chord in me and got me to thinking. Patricia threatened to end a player's career if he didn't get in line and it made me think that maybe he learned that attitude from Belichick. He clearly took on the same arrogance as Bill with the media so maybe, just maybe, he learned that type of threat from Bill too.

Same with Judge and McD. You can be a hardo when you have the record to back it up.

 

[Real fan 02]

One of the things that came out about Matt Patricia struck a chord in me and got me to thinking. Patricia threatened to end a player's career if he didn't get in line and it made me think that maybe he learned that attitude from Belichick. He clearly took on the same arrogance as Bill with the media so maybe, just maybe, he learned that type of threat from Bill too.

Absolutely, I remember hearing about that when he was in Detroit. There is nothing wrong with respecting BB, but you have to be your own man.
You know something.. if and when mayo gets his shot.. I believe he'll be his own man and not BB ass kisser.

 

[archstanton543]

Absolutely, I remember hearing about that when he was in Detroit. There is nothing wrong with respecting BB, but you have to be your own man.
You know something.. if and when mayo gets his shot.. I believe he'll be his own man and not BB ass kisser.

Why? He was drafted by, coached by and hired as a coach by one guy.

 

[Real fan 02]

Why? He was drafted by, coached by and hired as a coach by one guy.

Mayo was a player, the others were coaches. Different pedigree as a player. Mayo is a leader of men. Judge and Patricia couldn't coach up a hotdogs stand. Mayo is his own man. He's not a Bill wannabe.

 

[Real fan 02]

Same with Judge and McD. You can be a hardo when you have the record to back it up.

They likely felt them coming from a winning organization was enough... I'm sure you've heard the stories out about Josh?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Howie Roseman the great GM.. and Bill the GM isn't even a fair comparison.

I agree but Hurts was on their board for the next pick, he just didn't fall as far as they thought he would.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Mayo was a player, the others were coaches. Different pedigree as a player. Mayo is a leader of men. Judge and Patricia couldn't coach up a hotdogs stand. Mayo is his own man. He's not a Bill wannabe.

Being a player gives a whole different perspective on how to treat players to get the most out of them, I wouldn't mind Mayo as the coach next year.

 

[Real fan 02]

Being a player gives a whole different perspective on how to treat players to get the most out of them, I wouldn't mind Mayo as the coach next year.

Spot on. Is why Ryan's is successful in Houston his first season. He can connect with his players and his great young QB. I absolutely would love mayo to be HC. He's charismatic with the media, he's smart he's got a sense of humor as well

 

[archstanton543]

Being a player gives a whole different perspective on how to treat players to get the most out of them, I wouldn't mind Mayo as the coach next year.

No way. They need a innovative, offensive-minded coach. One with connections in the college ranks. Mayo just gives you more of the same that you got with BB.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

No way. They need a innovative, offensive-minded coach. One with connections in the college ranks. Mayo just gives you more of the same that you got with BB.

We don't know that, some of you guys are assuming that but I don't think he'd be anything like BB. I get that you want an offensive minded guy but they could hire a really good Offensive Coordinator for that which they would have to do anyway.

 

[State]

BB is not a terrible drafter.

2015 second-round Jordan Richards says hi.

 

[Hyped]

It does no good to draft or pick up talented, successful players and then dump them when they want to be fairly compensated, only to see them contribute to another team's success. I'm not going to go through that list but there's a lot of good players there, maybe a majority, that are in that category.

It depends man....like for example...should we have paid Chan Jones? Especially after his synthetic weed episode?

We never had a problem with paying Gronk and Brady and even foolishly paid Hernandez.

We have always paid for top tier talent...otherwise, we let guys walk. We aren't the only franchise that does this...

 

[Real fan 02]

No way. They need a innovative, offensive-minded coach. One with connections in the college ranks. Mayo just gives you more of the same that you got with BB.

I don't believe so. As I've said mayo was a PLAYER not a coach not a staffer. Totally different perspective. I believe mayo would bring someone in with pedigree and a modern NFL offensive mind. I don't believe that he'd be a Bill clone.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Josh has a better history of drafting offensive players than Belichick. McDaniels' Tim Tebow draft also produced three offensive studs in DeMaryius Thomas, Zane Beedles, and Eric Decker.

That's a hard no for me and he was only there for two drafts. Thomas and Decker both broke out AFTER McDaniels was fired and they got Manning.

.Jermaine Cunningham in round 2 (who was so so for us)

He was awful. Horrendous pick with his teammate waving his arms at Bill in Dunlap. Golden Tate was also there for the taking.

then Hernandez in round 4 (that did work for us until he decided to be a gangsta),

One of my favorite players before he did what he did. He was a matchup nightmare. The guy had unbelievable guickness and agility for a guy his size.

Jerod Mayo (one of the best LB'ers we ever had),

This is controversial.

Nate Solder (was a reliable LT for years before flaming out with the Giants)

He showed his true ability when he was defending a bad QB's blind side. He chased a lot of whiffed blocks in NE, but it went unnoticed because Tom got rid of it so quickly.

Klemm (starting OT)

He didn't play very much in NE. It was an awful pick.

Terrence Wheatley (so so)

He was awful.

Vollmer (big hit...reliable RT and even played LT on an ACL tear in 2015),

Best RT in the Bill era.

Name me the difference makers he's drafted in the past decade on offense.

There aren't any.

 

[Real fan 02]

That's a hard no for me and he was only there for two drafts. Thomas and Decker both broke out AFTER McDaniels was fired and they got Manning.

He was awful. Horrendous pick with his teammate waving his arms at Bill in Dunlap. Golden Tate was also there for the taking.

One of my favorite players before he did what he did. He was a matchup nightmare. The guy had unbelievable guickness and agility for a guy his size.

This is controversial.

He showed his true ability when he was defending a bad QB's blind side. He chased a lot of whiffed blocks in NE, but it went unnoticed because Tom got rid of it so quickly.

He didn't play very much in NE. It was an awful pick.

He was awful.

Best RT in the Bill era.

There aren't any.

Cunningham never could stay healthy, and when given an opportunity never took advantage. Wheatley I met in market basket one time.. thought he was working there... absolutely agree Vollmer best RT in the BB era. Dunlap a long time vet.. solid pass rusher.. another one of Billy's blunders.. Tate was a nice WR.. injuries slowed his career. Mayo was a great tackler ,Blitzer, run stuffer.. health is what also shortened his great patriots career. This defense was awesome with a prime Vince, McCourty, chung,Hightower, chandler Jones.