What up with our front office?

[nashvillepatsfan]

Sadly, my friends, I'm afraid that BB has lost his touch and I don't think Kraft has the stones to fire him.

Seriously???

nah, you must be joking. nevermind

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

I have to agree. When Bruschi could no longer do it he was gone, same with Vrabel and every other Pats player who could no longer perform. If Bill cannot straighten this team out over the next 2 years then he should be the next one that is gone. This is a business, thanks for what you did yesterday, but what are you going to do for me tomorrow.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I have to agree. When Bruschi could no longer do it he was gone, same with Vrabel and every other Pats player who could no longer perform. If Bill cannot straighten this team out over the next 2 years then he should be the next one that is gone. This is a business, thanks for what you did yesterday, but what are you going to do for me tomorrow.

So, you're saying the last 2 years have been bad? That if the team only goes 10-6 next year, and wins the division, that he should be gone?

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

The new season does not really start till March 5th....Its going to be a long month, expect to tag a unhappy Wilfork between now and then... And name a dc, which probably will be Patricia... The team is going to go through some changes, but to expect them now its too soon...

 

[Rob0729]

I think a better question is what's up with the Pats fans? When did they all start to think that Belichick has gone from being a genius to being Matt Millen 2.0?

 

[Kontradiction]

I think a better question is what's up with the Pats fans? When did they all start to think that Belichick has gone from being a genius to being Matt Millen 2.0?

People who compare him to Matt Millen are idiotic. However, Belichick is not above reproach. Personally, I think the crowd who calls anybody out for daring to criticize a move BB has taken are just as idiotic as the crowd that thinks he is the next Matt Millen. Let's face it, BB is capable of mistakes, as he has shown this past season. On top of that, we haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004 and are coming off a season where the majority of fans on this forum seem happy with the result of, "yeah we won the division and went 10-6". Yes, we did win the division and yes, we did go 10-6. However, a lot of people seem to ignore the fact that we were badly blown out in the Wild Card round by a Ravens team playing, essentially, without their quarterback. Things aren't exactly as peachy as people make them out to be. I mean, I've seen people almost crow about this season's results on here and, when I do, I start to laugh a little thinking of how we used to give Colts fans hell for bragging about their regular season accomplishments. Now, it seems, we have taken their place.

This is a strange offseason for us. The Patriots are almost at a fork in the road. An offseason of bad moves essentially closes the window a little bit more for our chances to win the Super Bowl. An offseason of good moves and we're looking at a dominant team again. And yes, it all starts and ends with Brady and his health, but his health can't be good for long if he keeps absorbing shots like he did last year. Personally? I have faith in Belichick to make the right moves this offseason and am looking forward (already) to 2010.

 

[vyrago]

We had the whole Adalius mess during the year which was new for us. That kind of situation never happened when Bruschi was here.

Ty Law calling BB a liar? I believe Bru was here for that and for the Terry Glenn brouhaha as well.

 

[Rob0729]

People who compare him to Matt Millen are idiotic. However, Belichick is not above reproach. Personally, I think the crowd who calls anybody out for daring to criticize a move BB has taken are just as idiotic as the crowd that thinks he is the next Matt Millen. Let's face it, BB is capable of mistakes, as he has shown this past season. On top of that, we haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004 and are coming off a season where the majority of fans on this forum seem happy with the result of, "yeah we won the division and went 10-6". Yes, we did win the division and yes, we did go 10-6. However, a lot of people seem to ignore the fact that we were badly blown out in the Wild Card round by a Ravens team playing, essentially, without their quarterback. Things aren't exactly as peachy as people make them out to be. I mean, I've seen people almost crow about this season's results on here and, when I do, I start to laugh a little thinking of how we used to give Colts fans hell for bragging about their regular season accomplishments. Now, it seems, we have taken their place.

This is a strange offseason for us. The Patriots are almost at a fork in the road. An offseason of bad moves essentially closes the window a little bit more for our chances to win the Super Bowl. An offseason of good moves and we're looking at a dominant team again. And yes, it all starts and ends with Brady and his health, but his health can't be good for long if he keeps absorbing shots like he did last year. Personally? I have faith in Belichick to make the right moves this offseason and am looking forward (already) to 2010.

I understand this season was a disapointment. I understand Belichick has made some mistakes in recent years. He is not above criticism. The problem is the criticism is overboard.

Yes, Belichick has a lot of work to do this offseason. Yes, he has to correct a lot of the mistakes he has made. BUT people act like he is Bobby Grier and doesn't know how to run a team or put together a championship.

The Pats got creamed by the Ravens and, yes, if the Pats do not make moves this offseason they are in for a downward trend. But people are already blasting Belichick for not spending money in the upcoming free agent market five weeks before it starts. People are already blasting him for an ugly divorce with Wilfork eventhough we have no idea how this whole thing will end or even if it is really Belichick's fault the negotiations haven't produced a long term deal. People are already blasting Belichick for his selection of a defensive coordinator before he has even made it.

Yes, on an individual basis, Belichick's decisions can be questioned and criticized. What I don't get is the people criticize virtually everything he has done since 2004 just because the Pats have had a "miserable" run where they only won four division titles, went to two AFC Championship games winning one, went to a Super Bowl, have never won less than 10 games in a season, and had a perfect regular season during that time frame.

No the second half the decade was not anywhere near the first half of the decade, but it was still pretty damn good. Virtually every year the Pats have been legitimate Super Bowl contenders. No they haven't sealed the deal, but neither have 28 other teams.

I'm sorry, but I trust Bill Belichick more than anyone on this board including myself or in the local media to make the right decisions for the Patriots. Yes, he has made mistakes, but he made mistakes during the Super Bowl years too (For example, if the Pats didn't luck out and Eugene Wilson didn't step in at safety week 2 and play a position he had never played before admirably, the Milloy cutting could have been a huge disaster). I don't think the fans should turn on the guy like they have when he had a down season (a down season mind you that was still better than about 20-24 other teams had).

 

[patsfan-1982]

I have to agree. When Bruschi could no longer do it he was gone, same with Vrabel and every other Pats player who could no longer perform. If Bill cannot straighten this team out over the next 2 years then he should be the next one that is gone. This is a business, thanks for what you did yesterday, but what are you going to do for me tomorrow.

Jeff Fisher, has been the HC for the oilers/titans for 15 years with only 6 winning seasons and 0 SB wins and he's not geting fired.


Bill Belichick has been the pats HC for 10 years with 9 strait winning seasons. and 3 SB wins.

he has made some bad trades and FA signings and a long with some of the worst coaching i ever seen. this year. but as long as the pats are a playoff team. BB will be the coach.

 

[mgteich]

Apparently folks think that the talent has been so great in 2008 and 2009, that Belichick should done better than be 11-5 and tie for the division with Cassel under center and better than be a 10-6 division winner with Brady. Belichick did a fine COACHING job. If there are question, it is in his role of acquiring and trading players (especially on the offensive side of the ball).

There are media types out there that consider 2008 and 2009 Belichick's best coaching years. We are in the middle of a total rebuild of the defense, and the offense is starting its rebuilding at a slower rate. We are changing the OL, one starter at a time (although some folks would like this to happen faster). The 2012 season will also see a very different offense with lots of new running backs, and receivers (both wideouts and tight ends).

We have 15 returning free agents and draftees, with lots more coming before Training Camp.

There are those who prefer all-at-once rebuilding. There are those who prefer the high-risk, up-in-flames-one-last-hurrah approach. There are those who think that the 2007 team was the best ever and that Belichick failed in not maintaining the talent to win the Super Bowl every single year, or at least be in it. And then there are those who oh so grateful to be tying for divisions with our quarterback-centered team when our quarterback is out or injured, and all this in the middle of rebuilding the defense!!!!

Yes, mistakes have been made. Belichick is not infallible in his approach to player acquisition or in his choices. While the 2009 draft was a B+ or A- draft by all accounts but those on this board, Belichick could have hit on even more than 15 of 15. He could have drafted Laurinitis intead of Chung (counting on free agency for a backup safety). Belichick went in looking for a CB, LT, backup LB, a backup S, a backup NT, and a developmental WR. He got all that with three solid 2009 contributers, including Edelman (a bonus in the trade down that brought us Belichick's choice at 23 (Butler) plus Tate plus a 2nd this year plus Edleman). Belichick even replaced our all-world snapper with another who didn't have a bad snap all year.
======================

With the free agency money he had to spend, Belichick secured defensive players Bodden, Springs, Banta-Cain, McGowan and Burgess, while re-signing Woods and Sanders. All five new acquisitions contributed to the defense which was top 10 even with so many players gone.

Belichick also secured offensive [players Taylor, Baker, Galloway, Lewis and Smith, while re-signing Kaczur. Clearly the offensive additions were the failed acquisitions.

Yes, we overpaid for Burgess. it took him half a season to learn the defense. I would note that he will likely be back. Belichick judged his performance highly. And yes, we overpaid for Springs (our reasonable STARTER for a third of a season). But as far as acquisitions, Belichick did a fine job on defense.
========================
MY BOTTOM LINE
We have won or tied for the division for the last NINE seasons. This consistency masked just how good the rebuilding and re-tooling has been. As many have indicated that we are near the BOTTOM in terms of cuirrent contributing talent, compared to past few years.

It will definitely take a lot of key acquisitions and re-signings to be division winners in 2010 and compete for the Super Bowl.

However, I have no reason to believe that this will not be done. Belichick has NOT failed in this effort for the past NINE years in a row. However, I also recognize that Belichick's eyes are on 2011 and 2012 and 2013 as well as 2010. We've added 15. We have extra hig picks in 2010 and 2011. Of course, if we don't win the Super Bowl, we will be here again with thread (and the hundred others coming) again next year. Such is the whiney nature of some fans.

For the rest of Patriot Nation, life is good and getting better.

I think a better question is what's up with the Pats fans? When did they all start to think that Belichick has gone from being a genius to being Matt Millen 2.0?

 

[p8ryts]

Seriously???

nah, you must be joking. nevermind

clearly he or she was joking.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

If I remember correctly, BB said after the Raven's game, they were going to take some time off and regroup. I think he's down at the Senior Bowl this week. Seems like the vacation is over for now.

Does anybody know when the Pats can start and sign free agents?

sounds like someone who is getting tired

 

[p8ryts]

So, you're saying the last 2 years have been bad? That if the team only goes 10-6 next year, and wins the division, that he should be gone?

clearly this he or she was joking also.

 

[oldskool138]

L.A. Patriots 2010

Worst. Troll. Ever. (and we had some bad ones around here)

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I understand this season was a disapointment. I understand Belichick has made some mistakes in recent years. He is not above criticism. The problem is the criticism is overboard.

Yes, Belichick has a lot of work to do this offseason. Yes, he has to correct a lot of the mistakes he has made. BUT people act like he is Bobby Grier and doesn't know how to run a team or put together a championship.

The Pats got creamed by the Ravens and, yes, if the Pats do not make moves this offseason they are in for a downward trend. But people are already blasting Belichick for not spending money in the upcoming free agent market five weeks before it starts. People are already blasting him for an ugly divorce with Wilfork eventhough we have no idea how this whole thing will end or even if it is really Belichick's fault the negotiations haven't produced a long term deal. People are already blasting Belichick for his selection of a defensive coordinator before he has even made it.

Yes, on an individual basis, Belichick's decisions can be questioned and criticized. What I don't get is the people criticize virtually everything he has done since 2004 just because the Pats have had a "miserable" run where they only won four division titles, went to two AFC Championship games winning one, went to a Super Bowl, have never won less than 10 games in a season, and had a perfect regular season during that time frame.

No the second half the decade was not anywhere near the first half of the decade, but it was still pretty damn good. Virtually every year the Pats have been legitimate Super Bowl contenders. No they haven't sealed the deal, but neither have 28 other teams.

I'm sorry, but I trust Bill Belichick more than anyone on this board including myself or in the local media to make the right decisions for the Patriots. Yes, he has made mistakes, but he made mistakes during the Super Bowl years too (For example, if the Pats didn't luck out and Eugene Wilson didn't step in at safety week 2 and play a position he had never played before admirably, the Milloy cutting could have been a huge disaster). I don't think the fans should turn on the guy like they have when he had a down season (a down season mind you that was still better than about 20-24 other teams had).

Careful, the miserable kneejerks and spoiled frontrunners and thoroughly disenchanted armchair geniuses will label you a pathetic, delusional homer for being merely a rational, realistic, intelligent poster.

Between all the Kraft is cheap and Belichick's an egomaniac and Brady's lost his fastball posts lately it's probably unfortunate organizatons can't turn over fanbases as easily as they do rosters. This one has sadly lost sight of what goes into building a championship team let alone perrenial contender. It's about a lot more than throwing big money and big names against the wall and hoping they stick like in the Meadowlands where just getting to the playoffs is their Superbowl, even if you back in. Always has been, too. Otherwise guys like Dan Snyder would be shoe ins for the HOF and geniuses like Bill Polian would have won multiple rings in Buffalo (or at least retained his job for coming close to) and John Gruden wouldn't be color commentating on NBC. Can you imagine Cowher's tenure here lasting 15 years when it took him 4 year to get to and lose one and another decade before he finally won one?? LOL

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand this season was a disapointment. I understand Belichick has made some mistakes in recent years. He is not above criticism. The problem is the criticism is overboard.

The criticism is the same as it's always been. The fanbase is the same as it's always been. You've got the irrational homers and haters, the more rational homers and haters, and the vast majority of the people falling in the middle. The difference is that the team struggled more this season, and that undercuts the security and confidence of the homers, making them more testy than they used to be, and the people in the middle shifted from being somewhat more in the direction of the haters than they'd been before.

Yes, Belichick has a lot of work to do this offseason. Yes, he has to correct a lot of the mistakes he has made. BUT people act like he is Bobby Grier and doesn't know how to run a team or put together a championship.

How is this any different from any other year? Captain Stone will give credit to BB when hell freezes over. Emoney will criticize BB 4 years after that.

The Pats got creamed by the Ravens and, yes, if the Pats do not make moves this offseason they are in for a downward trend. But people are already blasting Belichick for not spending money in the upcoming free agent market five weeks before it starts. People are already blasting him for an ugly divorce with Wilfork eventhough we have no idea how this whole thing will end or even if it is really Belichick's fault the negotiations haven't produced a long term deal. People are already blasting Belichick for his selection of a defensive coordinator before he has even made it.

People are noting that Seymour was moved out of town rather than being given his next contract, that Samuel was shipped out instead of being re-signed, that the Wilfork situation had all last season to be resolved while the team opted to sign far less critical players instead, and that Wilfork is now an unhappy camper.

Frankly, the amount of "blasting" for this has probably been less than it should be.

...I'm sorry, but I trust Bill Belichick more than anyone on this board including myself or in the local media to make the right decisions for the Patriots. Yes, he has made mistakes, but he made mistakes during the Super Bowl years too (For example, if the Pats didn't luck out and Eugene Wilson didn't step in at safety week 2 and play a position he had never played before admirably, the Milloy cutting could have been a huge disaster). I don't think the fans should turn on the guy like they have when he had a down season (a down season mind you that was still better than about 20-24 other teams had).

Trusting Belichick more than the others on that list is irrelevant. None of them are the team's coach. This is a message board for talking Patriots football, among other things. That means that some of the talk will, in fact, revolve around moves made, and not made, that some people think are mistakes. If you take away the draft for which it's obviously too soon to give any meaningful grade, Belichick's season was a whole lot closer to the worst in the league than to the best in the league. "Turn on the guy" (a/k/a criticize) is what happens when a coach does his job as poorly as Belichick did his this season.

 

[Rob0729]

The criticism is the same as it's always been. The fanbase is the same as it's always been. You've got the irrational homers and haters, the more rational homers and haters, and the vast majority of the people falling in the middle. The difference is that the team struggled more this season, and that undercuts the security and confidence of the homers, making them more testy than they used to be, and the people in the middle shifted from being somewhat more in the direction of the haters than they'd been before.

Sorry, the criticism is not the same. Granted I will chock it up to typical fandom because it probably would be no different anywhere else. But many of the things people are blasting Belichick for the same things they praised him for in the past. Why? Because some of the things he did in the past failed this past year, they think everything Belichick has done time and time again will not work.

How is this any different from any other year? Captain Stone will give credit to BB when hell freezes over. Emoney will criticize BB 4 years after that.

There are quite a few people on this board who are not Belichick haters and might have even fallen in the homer category just three months ago now blasting Belichick. Since they are not doing in a troll way, I won't call them out by screen name.

People are noting that Seymour was moved out of town rather than being given his next contract, that Samuel was shipped out instead of being re-signed, that the Wilfork situation had all last season to be resolved while the team opted to sign far less critical players instead, and that Wilfork is now an unhappy camper.

Frankly, the amount of "blasting" for this has probably been less than it should be.

And we are only hearing one side of the story in all those cases. The Pats don't talk about contract negotiations so we don't know what really happened only the players' spin. Granted Pats spin would be one sided too, but it would at least give us balance to get to the truth.

The fact of the matter is that the Wilfork thing hasn't even played out. For all we know, Wilfork could have a long term deal come March 5th. It doesn't look good, but it wouldn't be the first time a team and player have reached an impass and not talking only to get a deal done a month later. The Pats have already informed players that they were not going to negotiate contracts until early February.

Trusting Belichick more than the others on that list is irrelevant. None of them are the team's coach. This is a message board for talking Patriots football, among other things. That means that some of the talk will, in fact, revolve around moves made, and not made, that some people think are mistakes. If you take away the draft for which it's obviously too soon to give any meaningful grade, Belichick's season was a whole lot closer to the worst in the league than to the best in the league. "Turn on the guy" (a/k/a criticize) is what happens when a coach does his job as poorly as Belichick did his this season.

First, I think Belichick's offseason has been overblown as how bad it was. Yes, Galloway was a horrible move. So was Greg Lewis. But TBC and Bodden were great moves. I think Burgess would have been a good move if Belichick did it a month or two earlier and allowed Burgess to get acclimated. It took him nearly a season to get acclimated. It is too early to tell how the Seymour trade will work out, short term it was not good. Long term, it could help give the Pats 3 more Super Bowls.

Second, yes Belichick had a bad year. You look at every great coach and they don't hit every year. That doesn't mean this is a trend or that the game has passed him by like many (even some of what I considered before this year more rational fans) have suggested.

 

[pats1]

The new season does not really start till March 5th....Its going to be a long month, expect to tag a unhappy Wilfork between now and then... And name a dc, which probably will be Patricia... The team is going to go through some changes, but to expect them now its too soon...

Right, February will be dominated by Wilfork talk, much like Cassel last year and Samuel before that.

 

[mgteich]

We can certainly talk about Wilfork for the next few weeks. I don't understand the point. He will be franchised. There is no reason to act on a long-term contract (or any other solution) soon unless there is a 2010 cap. Wilfork will certainly be a distraction until the issue is solved, but I see no rush to act before March 5th.

Right, February will be dominated by Wilfork talk, much like Cassel last year and Samuel before that.

 

[Kontradiction]

I understand this season was a disapointment. I understand Belichick has made some mistakes in recent years. He is not above criticism. The problem is the criticism is overboard.

In a lot of cases it is. For example, I do not think Belichick should be fired. He's allowed to have a season of headscratching moves. IMO, he's earned that right after helping to bring this team three more Super Bowls than it had previously had in it's entire existance. However, I do think he should be questioned. Shipping Seymour out as late as he did without a viable back-up plan (the majority of the posters on this board could have told you that Jarvis Green is not good against the run) is just one of those decisions.

Yes, Belichick has a lot of work to do this offseason. Yes, he has to correct a lot of the mistakes he has made. BUT people act like he is Bobby Grier and doesn't know how to run a team or put together a championship.

Not a lot of people around here, outside of the NEPatriot's of the forum, have even come close to comparing him to Grier.

The Pats got creamed by the Ravens and, yes, if the Pats do not make moves this offseason they are in for a downward trend. But people are already blasting Belichick for not spending money in the upcoming free agent market five weeks before it starts.

These people are idiots. I can only speak for myself. The only time I've "bashed" (if you can even call it that) BB and the team for not spending money is this past offseason. Even then I was very careful not to call them cheap. I believe my exact words were, "Kraft is not cheap, however I do believe that the team tried to do things on the cheap this year... to negative results". I followed that up by stating that I'd like to see this team as active in free agency as it was prior to the 2007 season.

People are already blasting him for an ugly divorce with Wilfork eventhough we have no idea how this whole thing will end or even if it is really Belichick's fault the negotiations haven't produced a long term deal.

That's because some people looked at Seymour being traded with focus on what we would have to do this offseason and automatically assumed that unloading his salary a year before we were supposed to would help us sign our most important defensive player to a new contract. So far, that has not happened and, with each passing day, Wilfork sounds more and more disenchanted. In this case, some are "bashing" BB while others are merely putting two and two together.

People are already blasting Belichick for his selection of a defensive coordinator before he has even made it.

This has not been me either. I've blamed the defensive woes more on the personnel available instead of the coaching or the scheme since before midseason.

I don't think the fans should turn on the guy like they have when he had a down season (a down season mind you that was still better than about 20-24 other teams had).

I'm not throwing this all on you, because you're a good poster. However, this is exactly the type of complacency I was speaking of earlier in regards to the team. Was the season itself a success? Sure. We won the division. However, the success of the team has never and should never been what it's done in the regular season. Granted, you need to take care of business in the season to have a shot afterward. However, the success of the team should be what it does in the postseason. In an effort to (I guess) defeat a debate about the team's direction, several posters have taken to this "the season was a success!" attitude. No, it really wasn't. This team had major holes on both sides of the ball that gradually became more and more exposed as it went on until it ultimately culminated in getting outplayed, outcoached, and outclassed in the Wild Card round to the tune of a very embarassing blowout. Bottom line is that, for the first seven years of this decade, this team and it's fans have scoffed about "regular season successes". Remember the days when we all used to call the Colts a "regular season dynasty"? Well, that's where we are now unfortunately. I just hope, like you do, that we can turn the page on that.