What happened in the bye week?

[Ollie]

The defense’s lack of mental toughness and willingness to quit playing hard so early in the game speaks to coaching. They quit after their nose got bloodied.
Also in the previous 4 games not being able to make a stop when they had to speaks to lack of mental toughness

It's not a lack of mental toughness that is making the LBs slow its the fsct that they are slow. They just aren't good enough.

 

[PatsFan2]

Maybe there were some issues with some of the highly paid guys not handling things the way the leaders in the locker room felt they should. Obviously I’m just speculating. I think the bigger factor is during our winning streak we caught a lot of teams with unfavorable circumstances. The Browns didn’t have Chubb. The Titans didn’t have Henry or their top two receivers. The first Bills game had crazy weather. I was happy we were winning but a little worried we were just catching teams at the right time. I think down the stretch the defense got exposed and the offense is far too limited to keep up in a shootout.

Excellent post... you nailed it the Patriots got lucky and beat a couple of beat up Teams. Those Teams weren't playing with their best players. Also the Patriots had a limited Offense all year can't score on one play...and wasn't going to win any shoot outs.

 

[Wozzy]

You are using examples of teams with a strong veteran presence.

You are also bringing up teams with Super Bowl rosters

We heard about the team only meeting after the 2018 Steelers loss. It all changed after that.

Players make mistakes because of poor concentration and falling back to earth because they are inferior to their opponent.

When teams don't have the talent to overcome them the mistakes and penalties become magnified.

You'll notice the # of penalties committed by the team this year was in-line with past of BB coached teams with the exception of 2020 and 2013. 2014 had 120 penalties by far the most of any BB coached team in the 2000s...but since they were loaded with talent and battle-tested they overcame them.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2014

I agree some execution -related mistakes should have been corrected but that is not why they lost to better teams all year and got throttled last night.

Good talent. Rookie QB who did well but lost consistently to more talented teams.

That was the 2021 Patriots

They ranked 17th in turnovers, 23rd in fumbles, they dropped passes, they only had so many penalties but damn they came at the worst times… Mac wasn’t exclusively why they lost, in fact I’d say the team around him more often than not was the problem.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

They ranked 17th in turnovers, 23rd in fumbles, they dropped passes, they only had so many penalties but damn they came at the worst times… Mac wasn’t exclusively why they lost, in fact I’d say the team around him more often than not was the problem.

Agree, but you're talking to an organizational stooge who still argues a dozen crappy bench guys means they drafted great from 2013-2019, or that Jonnu Smith getting 0 targets a game shows the oc knows how to use 2 pass catching tight ends

 

[203Pat]

To be honest this team never really looked like a Bill Belichick coached team all year. The sloppy play, lots of lapses with the fundamentals, and costly, untimely penalties all year long. It would be one thing if this was a young team learning how to win but it really isn't. The defense is old and slow and the offense is made up of almost all veterans. I know there is always going to be a locker room hierarchy and one would imagine McCourty, Andrews, and Hightower were brought back in part, to be the leaders of the team but I still think without that alpha male at quarterback messages may fall on deaf ears. I hope Mac can step into that leadership role and lose some of his "aww shucks!" "geee wiz" type demeanor because the team is going to need him to have the loudest voice in the locker room.

 

[Wozzy]

Agree, but you're talking to an organizational stooge who still argues a dozen crappy bench guys means they drafted great from 2013-2019, or that Jonnu Smith getting 0 targets a game shows the oc knows how to use 2 pass catching tight ends

You guys always blame "talent," or a lack of athleticism... beyond some injuries at CB, that's not why the Pats got progressively worse from the bye week on. Teams don't match up on paper, they actually have to go out and execute.

The 2021 Patriots are one of the more talented teams in the NFL... their execution was crap, total dogsht... that's why they lost. When a wide open receiver drops a pass that hits him in the hands, it didn't happen because said receiver wasn't fast enough or couldn't "get separation." When a fullback or O-Lineman jumps offsides and puts the offense in first and twenty, it's not because said player isn't talented enough.

It's a lack of fundamentals, discipline, coaching and concentration. For cripesakes the Patriots called a timeout in the final game of the regular season against the Dolphins down in the red zone... coming out of the timeout the defensive backfield couldn't decide who to cover and were screaming at each other while the Phins were snapping the ball. We just watched some of the worst coached and executed football of BB's twenty plus years in New England... and people here are blaming "talent." When even your talented players are screwing up and making mistakes, there's a big problem beyond the ability to run fast.

 

[tasmlab]

What I witnessed from the bye week on was a complete breakdown in fundamentals. An extension of the poor play from the first 6 weeks that peppered every game they played this year.

Poor blocking, tackling, knowledge of assignments, fumbles, dropped passes, jumping offsides, false starts, weak scheme and play calling… this team was poorly coached and actually got worse at the end of the season rather than better… which has been a hallmark of BB teams assuming health.

Unfortunately the persons responsible for fixing fundamentals starts with the coaches and ends with the players. We saw them all, great and average player alike, play good for stretches and totally screw up for stretches. Inconsistency in doing something one has clearly shown the proficiency to do is repetition and practice.

Nobody wants to blame the coaches, the only person to point the finger at is the coaches… because they’re most responsible for correcting it.

They lost Scar and then Popovich’s son because he refused to take the jab, now they can’t communicate or know who to block all season. They lost Joe Judge and can’t line up correctly on punt returns. They lost Flores and the defense forgot how to tackle. All of Bills young assistants don’t inherit his wealth of knowledge through osmosis, they often have to learn through mistakes. Much like Flores did in 2018 when he put Gronk back in nickel defense and had to apologize to the entire team after the loss for screwing up. You literally saw Flores grow and improve as that season went on. With Patricia it took years for him to improve, but he did. This was an undisciplined team that started to improve before totally tanking. It was a poorly coached team.

Losing Flores, Judge, Scar and Adams is a lot of coaching experience to lose for a team that appears to have a coaching deficit.

 

[mosi]

Dude the talent on this roster blows away those early 90s teams.

I really don't think so. But what I would say is that the talent of the D, when the were at their prime, was higher. But I look at Hightower in the same way I look at Tippet at the end of his career. The D is old and past their prime. Overall, the talent on this team is terrible and the Pats only got the number of wins it did because of BB and coaching.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I really don't think so. But what I would say is that the talent of the D, when the were at their prime, was higher. But I look at Hightower in the same way I look at Tippet at the end of his career. The D is old and past their prime. Overall, the talent on this team is terrible and the Pats only got the number of wins it did because of BB and coaching.

I'll need to dust off the cobwebs and look at the 1990-1992 Patriots defenses and see if I still disagree.

I will say those teams had a vastly underrated CB in Maurice Hurst and an all-pro in Vincent Brown at MLB. I remember Tim Goad being pretty good. Brent Williams was on those teams I think. Very good pass rusher.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The 2021 Patriots are one of the more talented teams in the NFL... their execution was crap, total dogsht... that's why they lost. When a wide open receiver drops a pass that hits him in the hands, it didn't happen because said receiver wasn't fast enough or couldn't "get separation." When a fullback or O-Lineman jumps offsides and puts the offense in first and twenty, it's not because said player isn't talented enough.

That would be, 1) on the refs for making a 5 yd penalty into a 10 yard penalty and 2) on the Head Coach being in dotage and not objecting

Otherwise you make some good points

 

[Marko]

I said this in late October - before the Pats wen't on their win streak but think it is valid:

"The lack of talent on this team reminds me a lot of the early 90's teams. Anybody remember Hart Lee Dykes?The fact that Brady won with this group is almost crazy unbelievable and really and truly highlights his greatness.

BB is a great coach. But coaches don't play and talent is talent. If this team wins half its games over the next 3-5 years I will be impressed."

The D is old and the depth is not there. The receivers are JAGS and nobody on offense scares anyone.

The Pats draft class this year could be considered "good" if Mac and Barmore and Stevenson continuing being productive. 2020 draft? Dugger. 2019 draft Harris? Just go back and look how many busts there have been. The Pats drafting has been terrible.

Not saying that BB is not a great coach - I think he is and the fact that he won 7 games last year with Newton is an example of that - but the poor drafting has really impacted this team.

I loved Brady as much as anyone but the tess as ms he played with were miles from this group. The defense won the Rams SB, and to compare Edelman, Gronk, Amendola and White to what Mac throws to is just wrong.

 

[Marko]

I think thats just Mac's thing, going back to practice and that's where they need to start. We are going to hear a lot about practice for the next decade.

I agree, but he probably also heard that people questioned this response, which is weird that he doubled down.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Hookers and Blow is my guess...

Those 90's teams put a fight everytime they played the Bills. That was the Jim Kelly 4-straight AFCC wins Bills. This 2021 team gave up. Did not force a punt in 8-quaters of football. I still can't wrap my head around that. Is the talent gap that big? Is it coaching? Is it the wear and tear of a 17-game season? Even the Steelers put a bit of a fight. Even the Eagles tried. This team did not even put in the work.

And this current lot of receivers couldn't hold Hart Lee Dykes jock. An injury ended his promising career.

 

[doesntmatter1]

We have many problems that have been addressed numerous times. I believe the main problem on display was it was too cold. I truly feel the players just wanted to get out of the freezer and didn't have the heart to compete once we were down 14.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Before the season most of us thought they could win 9-10 games and make the playoffs and probably get knocked out quick. That's what happened, the 7 game win streak skewed some opinions on here but in the end they did what most of us thought, now they just need to build on that.