What are we going to do with the $$$?

[Iron Helmet]

I don't know where all the talk about currently fielding a team that is Super Bowl caliber is coming from. I would have to say that the team, as of right now, is worse than last years team.

What is going to determine the fate of this team is the play of unprovens, namely: Biesel--though he had a few decent performances at the end of last season, TBC, Jackson, Caldwell, our kickers.

Frankly, I am not 100% comfortable with the roster as is. I would like to see another QB on the depth chart, another veteran starting OLB, perhaps another ILB, and the Branch situation resolved. Then I'd be a bit more willing to buy the hype about a Super Bowl team at this stage of the game.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I don't know where all the talk about currently fielding a team that is Super Bowl caliber is coming from. I would have to say that the team, as of right now, is worse than last years team.

What is going to determine the fate of this team is the play of unprovens, namely: Biesel--though he had a few decent performances at the end of last season, TBC, Jackson, Caldwell, our kickers.

Frankly, I am not 100% comfortable with the roster as is. I would like to see another QB on the depth chart, another veteran starting OLB, perhaps another ILB, and the Branch situation resolved. Then I'd be a bit more willing to buy the hype about a Super Bowl team at this stage of the game.

That talk is coming from right here.

This team, healthy, is better than last year's team.

I would be not only satisfied with this roster, but with the rest of the available money being left in the coffers.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots whether I agree with FO decisions or not. I support the team through 1-15 seasons and SB Championship seasons.

I also support your right to an opinion, even when I disagree with it.

This team is playoff-bound.

 

[maverick4]

This team, healthy, is better than last year's team.

This team is playoff-bound.

I think this past draft and upcoming year will set the table for another 5 years of glory. I'm not sure if this year's team is a championship team, though.

I have no worries about the Ghost or the offensive line, but I don't like the linebacker situation and its ability to stop the run. I also don't like how we are counting on a rookie and a reclamation project as our #2 and #3 receivers.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't know where all the talk about currently fielding a team that is Super Bowl caliber is coming from. I would have to say that the team, as of right now, is worse than last years team.

What is going to determine the fate of this team is the play of unprovens, namely: Biesel--though he had a few decent performances at the end of last season, TBC, Jackson, Caldwell, our kickers.

Frankly, I am not 100% comfortable with the roster as is. I would like to see another QB on the depth chart, another veteran starting OLB, perhaps another ILB, and the Branch situation resolved. Then I'd be a bit more willing to buy the hype about a Super Bowl team at this stage of the game.

Nice to know you want things. Unfortunately, we live in reality here. The things you want just aren't available.

Now, would you care to explain how this team is worse than last year's?

Also, the fate of every team generally rests on the unprovens. Because every year, there is turnover and the unprovens have to step up. Mankins and Kaczur stepped up last year and helped this team to a 10-6 records despite all the injuries the Pats had.

This team has had questions every year. Even last year going into the season, there were questions about ILB, CB, depth at safety, the O-line.

The receivers this team has are better than the team in 2001. Even if Deion Branch holds out for any length of time into the season.

As for OLB, who is available who can play OLB in the 3-4?

 

[mgcolby]

I don't know where all the talk about currently fielding a team that is Super Bowl caliber is coming from. I would have to say that the team, as of right now, is worse than last years team.

What is going to determine the fate of this team is the play of unprovens, namely: Biesel--though he had a few decent performances at the end of last season, TBC, Jackson, Caldwell, our kickers.

Frankly, I am not 100% comfortable with the roster as is. I would like to see another QB on the depth chart, another veteran starting OLB, perhaps another ILB, and the Branch situation resolved. Then I'd be a bit more willing to buy the hype about a Super Bowl team at this stage of the game.

Let's see..here...where to begin..hmm alright, we will in all likely hood have the following people starting for us in week 1, Light, Koppen(?), Healthy Dillon, healthy Watson and Graham, and Harrison. Biesel will have an entire season under his belt in our Defense and he will have the benefit of playing along side Bruschi. All of them were either on the IR or banged up for most of the season last year. Having those guys coming back makes both the offense and defense championship caliber.

We drafted Maroney who will have an impact on the offense if for no other reason than spelling Dillon in some tough yardage situations, Jackson should be atleast the #3 receiver at the start of the season, Caldwell has the potential to be a solid #2 if he can stay healthy. Our OL will be outstanding with Light\Mankins\Koppen or Hochstein\Neal\Kaczur. Our QB situation is irrelivent if we lose Brady for the season, name a back up QB that you think would bring us to the SB? Cassell has as good a shot as any.

The Pats DL is the best in the business. Our LB situation isn't as bad as you seem to think. We will have Vrabel who is an upgrade over Willy, Biesel with experience and aided by Bruschi calling the plays and adjustments, finally a fully healthy Colvin. The only place we have question marks at the LB position is depth and I think the young guys and Banta-Cain will be fine. The DB situation is vastly improved over last year, Gay should be back and healthy, Hobbs will have a year under his belt, Samual should be his steady self, Hawkins is a great utility DB, Wilson will not have to carry the load and Harrison will be back.

This football team with all of the injuries listed above was clearly capable of winning the SB last year (oh that reminds me Brady was playing with a sports hernia) they just shot themselves in the foot with all of their turnovers. Now with all of the players that will be returning from the IR, in addition to those that were on the field last January, how can you say that this isn't a SB contender? Name a team that vastly improved themselves out of the AFC elites? I don't think any of them did and I definitly don't think any of them brought in as much talent as we have returning from the IR!

Just my $0.02

 

[BruschiOnTap]

Word out of the Patriots front office is that Robert Kraft has set that money aside for a massive party. Three prostitues per player. All you can eat steak and lobster and all you can smoke crack.

Poor Fred Smoot had to pay out of his own pocket... I guess that's why we're a dynasty!

 

[Iron Helmet]

First off, don't question my loyalty to the team because I bring up a point that you consider negative. I am a loyal fan and know this team better than most, so called, fans.

How is this team worse than last years team? No Willie, no Givens, no Adam. That's how. 3 PROVEN NFL players, replaced by UNPROVEN players. Replaced by rookies, maybes, and dusty-azz veterans (Gramatica?).

Though I agree that this team might be better than last years, I don't see how you can say that it is better, especially at this point in the season.

If I remember correctly, I felt pretty good about last years team at this time of the year. Better than I do right now about our current team.

I think we passed on several good players over the free agency period. We showed interest in serveral quality players, J Peterson, J Walker, L Arrington, T Law, and others, but we came up short in all situations. It seems we are now waiting for training camp casualties and scraps. Was this by accident or by design? We can only guess.

In reality, we don't know the motivations of the upper management of the Pats organization, but, based on history, my money is on them to succeed. However, as a football observer, I've been more comfortable with the state of the team than I am right now, 2 days before camp.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Folks are assuming no injuries to starters (unrealistic) and that Kop and Harison are ready to play at the season opener. BB never comments on the year's team at the start of camp. It's way too early and the lineup that will start the season is too fluid. The time to evaluate a team's potential is a week before the season starts. Even then, they've not played a game that counts.

 

[mgcolby]

Folks are assuming no injuries to starters (unrealistic) and that Kop and Harison are ready to play at the season opener. BB never comments on the year's team at the start of camp. It's way too early and the lineup that will start the season is too fluid. The time to evaluate a team's potential is a week before the season starts. Even then, they've not played a game that counts.

From everything that has been reported or speculated Koppen is more likely to start the regular season on the PUP than Harrison.

I am not assuming that there won't be injuries to starters but the law of averages has to be on the Pats side this year when it comes to injuries. I mean you can only have so many years in a row where you use 40+ starters due to injuries before your luck changes.

One thing I am interested to see is how the ILB's play in pre-season and what BB would do if no one emerges. I wonder if he would pull the trigger on an Edward's deal?

Training camp won't start soon enough.

 

[mgcolby]

How is this team worse than last years team? No Willie, no Givens, no Adam. That's how. 3 PROVEN NFL players, replaced by UNPROVEN players. Replaced by rookies, maybes, and dusty-azz veterans (Gramatica?).

This is where people lose sight of everything, they focus on the 3 subtractions but don't give much thought to who is returning from a season ending injury. We have more talent coming back from the IR than any AFC contender signed in the off season.

Steelers - Lost their number 2 receiver and one of their best DL. And their QB did a face plant off of a car's windshield and they drafted a turd receiver.

Bengals- didn't do much either way (except spend a lot of time in jail)

Colts - Lost a starting DL, starting LB and their All pro RB

Denver - picked up a good receiver, Kenard Lang and lost Pryce, Anderson and Putzier.

KC - has a new HC, signed Law but that won't solve all of there defensive woes (re-watch the Giants game from last year)

SD- Lost there starting QB and will be relying on an unproven QB.

We lost an aging OLB who is replaced by a better OLB, a number 2 receiver who had 59 receptions last season and a clutch PK who hasn't kicked a 50+ yard FG in over 3 years and who the hell remembers the last time he put a kickoff in the back of the end zone.

Someone on our current roster (Biesel-most likely) will have to step up and prove he can start at ILB.

Between Caldwell and Jackson they have to catch 59 receptions to replace givens.

Gost has to prove he can handle the mental aspects of kicking in the NFL or else they will give the job to Gramatica or bring in another vet to compete.

I like our odds on all 3 of those situations.

 

[DaBruinz]

First off, don't question my loyalty to the team because I bring up a point that you consider negative. I am a loyal fan and know this team better than most, so called, fans.

How is this team worse than last years team? No Willie, no Givens, no Adam. That's how. 3 PROVEN NFL players, replaced by UNPROVEN players. Replaced by rookies, maybes, and dusty-azz veterans (Gramatica?).

Though I agree that this team might be better than last years, I don't see how you can say that it is better, especially at this point in the season.

If I remember correctly, I felt pretty good about last years team at this time of the year. Better than I do right now about our current team.

I think we passed on several good players over the free agency period. We showed interest in serveral quality players, J Peterson, J Walker, L Arrington, T Law, and others, but we came up short in all situations. It seems we are now waiting for training camp casualties and scraps. Was this by accident or by design? We can only guess.

In reality, we don't know the motivations of the upper management of the Pats organization, but, based on history, my money is on them to succeed. However, as a football observer, I've been more comfortable with the state of the team than I am right now, 2 days before camp.

My suggestion to you is to log off, get in your car and go to your Barnes & Noble or Borders and get yourself Management Secrets of the New England Patriots.

As for the players you mentioned, None of them are Patriots Type Players. Not even Law. And you didn't answer the question asked of you. I asked you who you wanted to add NOW.

Also, in the future, use the QUOTE button. That way people will know WHO you are replying to.

The REALITY is that Caldwell is a good receiver who was buried out in San Diego. Caldwell was a starting receiver for them before he tore his ACL. When he got back last year, he was behind Gates, McCardell, Parker, and Tomlinson.

In a perfect world, yes, we would want a veteran starting OLB like we've had the luxury of having the last 5 years who can come off the bench. We'd also be 3 deep at ILB the way we were in 2003 and 2004. The REALITY is that neither of those things are going to happen this year. Why? Because I think that BB seriously wants to try and develop Mincey, Roach and Claridge. Those are 3 players who I think WILL have an impact on this team in the very near future.

As for the kicker. Unless Gostkowski becomes a drunk like Janikowski, I think that he will be as better than Adam on kick-offs. If his kick-offs can get another half-second to second of hang time over what Vinatieri did and get some more distance, it would allow the coverage unit to get down the field better and limit the kick returns. One of the biggest problems with Vinatieri was the distance on his kicks offs. Gostkowski has a much stronger leg and his learning curve should be a LOT less since he kicked his entire college career off a pro-tee (only 1" high) vs a college tee (2" high).

Now, about the 3 proven players. You do realize that McGinest was 34 going on 35, right. And that McGinest wasn't visible much of the season. Not until both Bruschi and Seymour got back. I love Willie, but it was time to move on if he still wanted big money. Vinatieri we've already discussed. Givens got severely over-paid. Givens got paid like a #1 receiver, but he's only shown he can be a capable #2.

The Patriots added Chad Jackson, David Thomas (who, by all accounts, should see action in games early in the season), Garrett Mills, and Jeremy Mincey. I honestly believe that Thomas and Jackson will surprise people. I think that Mincey will be pushing TBC for playing time, though primarily on special teams.

BTW, a quick question. Why are you so worried about the team when TC hasn't even started yet? If we were 3 weeks into TC and things were looking bad, I might agree with your pessimism.

 

[Iron Helmet]

My suggestion to you is to log off, get in your car and go to your Barnes & Noble or Borders and get yourself Management Secrets of the New England Patriots.

As for the players you mentioned, None of them are Patriots Type Players. Not even Law. And you didn't answer the question asked of you. I asked you who you wanted to add NOW.

Also, in the future, use the QUOTE button. That way people will know WHO you are replying to.

The REALITY is that Caldwell is a good receiver who was buried out in San Diego. Caldwell was a starting receiver for them before he tore his ACL. When he got back last year, he was behind Gates, McCardell, Parker, and Tomlinson.

In a perfect world, yes, we would want a veteran starting OLB like we've had the luxury of having the last 5 years who can come off the bench. We'd also be 3 deep at ILB the way we were in 2003 and 2004. The REALITY is that neither of those things are going to happen this year. Why? Because I think that BB seriously wants to try and develop Mincey, Roach and Claridge. Those are 3 players who I think WILL have an impact on this team in the very near future.

As for the kicker. Unless Gostkowski becomes a drunk like Janikowski, I think that he will be as better than Adam on kick-offs. If his kick-offs can get another half-second to second of hang time over what Vinatieri did and get some more distance, it would allow the coverage unit to get down the field better and limit the kick returns. One of the biggest problems with Vinatieri was the distance on his kicks offs. Gostkowski has a much stronger leg and his learning curve should be a LOT less since he kicked his entire college career off a pro-tee (only 1" high) vs a college tee (2" high).

Now, about the 3 proven players. You do realize that McGinest was 34 going on 35, right. And that McGinest wasn't visible much of the season. Not until both Bruschi and Seymour got back. I love Willie, but it was time to move on if he still wanted big money. Vinatieri we've already discussed. Givens got severely over-paid. Givens got paid like a #1 receiver, but he's only shown he can be a capable #2.

The Patriots added Chad Jackson, David Thomas (who, by all accounts, should see action in games early in the season), Garrett Mills, and Jeremy Mincey. I honestly believe that Thomas and Jackson will surprise people. I think that Mincey will be pushing TBC for playing time, though primarily on special teams.

BTW, a quick question. Why are you so worried about the team when TC hasn't even started yet? If we were 3 weeks into TC and things were looking bad, I might agree with your pessimism.

Not to bash you, but you really need a dose of reality. How close do you really think this book gets to the actual management strategies of the Patriots? Just because the title says so? Come ON. I could write a book with that title, and be closer to the truth of the matter. Frankly, until BB writes a book, I'll pass on going to Barnes and Noble.

Are you saying Willie was NOT a Patriots type player? The man was considered the Godfather of the locker room, and made more critical plays during crunch time than anyone other than Brady and Adam. Givens is not a Patriots type player? Worked his azz off from the depths of oblivion to command #1 reciever cash? Wake UP. BB would take guys like him ALL DAY.

Yes, they both went their separate ways, but that doesn't make them Patriot type players. Per your definition, a Patriot type Player would be a good football player who is a fool off the field. Who is a "Patriots type player"? Seymour? Brady? Branch? Take off the glasses. These guys are good players looking out for themselves, and I don't blame them.

You are making my point for me...rookies and unprovens replaced PROVEN players. Bottom line, none of the rookies have shown us they can play a snap of NFL football. Kicker included. When they do, come and talk. Until then, take a seat, and see what happens.

Like I said in my original post...I just feel that at this point in time, the team is weaker than the team fielded at the end of last season, sans injuries. Period.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not to bash you, but you really need a dose of reality. How close do you really think this book gets to the actual management strategies of the Patriots? Just because the title says so? Come ON. I could write a book with that title, and be closer to the truth of the matter. Frankly, until BB writes a book, I'll pass on going to Barnes and Noble.

You do realize that the book, though written by James Lavin, was done by interviewing Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli, right? Well, obviously not. Here's a hint for you. Not every book has to have 36 Point font and comic book pictures for people to understand it. Maybe you need that, but most adults don't.

Are you saying Willie was NOT a Patriots type player? The man was considered the Godfather of the locker room, and made more critical plays during crunch time than anyone other than Brady and Adam. Givens is not a Patriots type player? Worked his azz off from the depths of oblivion to command #1 reciever cash? Wake UP. BB would take guys like him ALL DAY.

What is it with you? Do you have a hard time reading what is said? Or do you just enjoy putting words in people's mouths and speculating haphazardly? Please show me ANYWHERE that I said McGinest wasn't a Patriots type player. You CAN'T so don't even try. What I was saying was that McGinest will be 34 and he was nearly invisibile last year until Seymour and Bruschi returned to the line-up. That means he wasn't his dominant self.

As for Givens, Yes, he worked so hard that he disappeared for games on end and then dropped a couple easy passes in critical situations. If BB would take guys like him ALL DAY, then why isn't he still with the Patriots. I'll tell you why. He's not worth the money he got. That's why.

Yes, they both went their separate ways, but that doesn't make them Patriot type players. Per your definition, a Patriot type Player would be a good football player who is a fool off the field. Who is a "Patriots type player"? Seymour? Brady? Branch? Take off the glasses. These guys are good players looking out for themselves, and I don't blame them.

I never said McGinest and Givens weren't Patriots-Type players. Not once. My quote, had you actually bothered to read it properly, referred to the players you mentioned. Players like Javon Walker, J. Peterson, L. Arrington etc, etc. They are NOT Patriots-Type players. Why do you insist on making garbage up?

And, where did I give the definition of a "Patriots-Type" player? I didn't. So I don't know why you would claim that I said McGinest and Givens weren't Patriot-Type players.

Maybe YOU need to put some glasses on. Or hit a remedial comprehension class or something because you seem to have a hard time understanding plain english.

You are making my point for me...rookies and unprovens replaced PROVEN players. Bottom line, none of the rookies have shown us they can play a snap of NFL football. Kicker included. When they do, come and talk. Until then, take a seat, and see what happens.

Listen, you are the one who needs to take a seat because you haven't shown JACK to support your claims. All you have shown is that you can sit there like a child with your fingers in your ears saying "NAH NAH NAH" I'm not listening to you because I'm right and YOU'RE wrong.

Reche Caldwell is a proven player. So is Mel Mitchell. They are replacing Givens and Matt Chatham respectively.

Like I said in my original post...I just feel that at this point in time, the team is weaker than the team fielded at the end of last season, sans injuries. Period.

Well, you can have that opinion, that is your right. But don't expect people to agree with you when you can't even offer up decent rebuttals or you can't read what people said without putting words into their mouths.

 

[pats1]

You are making my point for me...rookies and unprovens replaced PROVEN players. Bottom line, none of the rookies have shown us they can play a snap of NFL football. Kicker included. When they do, come and talk. Until then, take a seat, and see what happens.

Like I said in my original post...I just feel that at this point in time, the team is weaker than the team fielded at the end of last season, sans injuries. Period.

And what the hell would you do? Keep on signing 30-year old free agents, or better yet, keeping on re-signing players until they're 50 years old, just because they're proven? And just let the rookies ride the bench for the duration of their contracts?

I can't see how you believe the team right now is worse than it was at the end of last season. I've watched the tape - and agonized. Dillon nor the offensive line couldn't have gotten worse. It was INJURIES. They heal with TIME. Light will be back on the field Friday. Kaczur missed a few games down the stretch. The RT spot has some great competition between Kaczur, Gorin, and O'Callaghan (if he doesn't move to G). Koppen will eventually be back, but Hochstein is an ample replacement. There's a whole slew of good backup linemen, and many will be cut come September - that's a good thing.

The running game, which will already got a boost when Dillon and the line had an offseason of rest, got some big help in the form of Maroney.

Good. He's unproven. Great. Woohoo. So was Seymour. So was Wilfork. So was Warren. So was Watson. So was Mankins. So was Wilson. So was Branch. So was Givens. So was Brady. So was Graham. So was Kaczur. So was Koppen. So was Green. So was Samuel. So was Hobbs.

Sure, there's always the chance of a draft pick or two turning into a Bethel or Klecko or Reid or Sam. There's always that chance.

But the overwhelming odds are, Maroney, Jackson, and the others will make a big impact with the Patriots, some coming this very year. That's the undeniable truth.

I'm sick and tired of hearing the constant ****-spouting about McGinest, Givens, Vinatieri - or how Ashworth was a "staple" on our offensive line. I swear the Patriots could lose a ballboy and some loathing member of the media would add it to one of their "prediction" columns ("predictions are bull****") and say it was a major loss to the Patriots that could hurt their chances.

The front seven was certainly the strong-point of the Pats down the stretch. And only ONE piece has departed - and McGinest was FAR FROM the best piece of the said 7. In fact, he was more like the 3rd or 4th - maybe even 5th best piece.

One uncharateristic loss in Denver, and suddenly Belichick has lost his touch. We all know Belichick. We all know what he can do. We all know what he and Pioli in unision (henceforth "Beioli") with this team. I can't fathom how some have the audacity to drop everything they've learned and start questioning their judgement again.

Knowing the Patriots and knowing Belichick, I'm sure we'll see one - that's right - ONLY ONE - all that's needed - replacement emerge. Beisel, Banta-Cain, Klecko, Claridge, or Mincey could all be the rabbit that is pulled out of BB's hat. If Beioli didn't have full confidence in at least one replacement, you can bet your ass they would have gone out and found something. The fact that they didn't tells the story.

The secondary had taken so many hits by season's end that we all knew the shape it's depth was in. Artrell Hawkins. Michael Stone. A rookie in James Sanders. Hank Poteat. Bam Childress. That's it!

Along with an overhaul of the special teams (killed us in Denver), Beioli shored up the depth at DB once and for all (Shawn Mayer, Je'Rod Cherry, Antwan Harris, or Earthwind Moreland anyone?). Tebucky's in. Harrison's back. Gay's back. Both Scotts are back. Hawkins is relegated to top level depth. Sanders has a year under his belt. Mitchell is a special teams ace. Poteat is at the bottom of the chart instead of nickel, as he was in late 2005. Hobbs, Samuel, and Wilson have yet to reach their primes and have another year under their belts.

Not to bash you, but you really need a dose of reality. How close do you really think this book gets to the actual management strategies of the Patriots? Just because the title says so? Come ON. I could write a book with that title, and be closer to the truth of the matter. Frankly, until BB writes a book, I'll pass on going to Barnes and Noble.

Actually, why don't you read them before making completely moronic statements like that? As the preface states, the book isn't supposed to expose secrets of the Patriots' system. It's not insider, but it's without a doubt the most comprehensive analysis of the organization you will see. The books mesh together quotes, facts, and figures into some excellent points of emphasis. Many Patriot fans already are familar with, but the extreme about of content only reinforces our sentiments.

You are making my point for me...rookies and unprovens replaced PROVEN players. Bottom line, none of the rookies have shown us they can play a snap of NFL football. Kicker included. When they do, come and talk. Until then, take a seat, and see what happens.

Again, we've gone through this. How did you feel before 2005 about Mankins, Kaczur, Hobbs, or Sanders? What about in 2004? Did you feel that Wilfork, in July 2004, would replace Washington?

 

[Kdo5]

First off, don't question my loyalty to the team because I bring up a point that you consider negative. I am a loyal fan and know this team better than most, so called, fans.

How is this team worse than last years team? No Willie, no Givens, no Adam. That's how. 3 PROVEN NFL players, replaced by UNPROVEN players. Replaced by rookies, maybes, and dusty-azz veterans (Gramatica?).

Though I agree that this team might be better than last years, I don't see how you can say that it is better, especially at this point in the season.

If I remember correctly, I felt pretty good about last years team at this time of the year. Better than I do right now about our current team.

I think we passed on several good players over the free agency period. We showed interest in serveral quality players, J Peterson, J Walker, L Arrington, T Law, and others, but we came up short in all situations. It seems we are now waiting for training camp casualties and scraps. Was this by accident or by design? We can only guess.

In reality, we don't know the motivations of the upper management of the Pats organization, but, based on history, my money is on them to succeed. However, as a football observer, I've been more comfortable with the state of the team than I am right now, 2 days before camp.

. Three losses, they arent going to kill us. BB has built another team, all around filled of solid players. Thats just what you need a group of solid, smart players all around then a few great players to eat away at most of your cap room. If anything they have imrpoved from last year. Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, Brady. They are all great veterans and leaders. We havent lost all of our leaders just yet, so I still smell another playoff birth, if not a SB. But I cant get ahead of myself before training camp!

In the end Iron Helmet, you will be the one embarassed if(problably) we win the division and make the playoffs again. Let alone championship talk. But its you that needs a dose of reality. The Pats have been the best team during the salary cap era, under BB. And the reason why is simple, he doesnt give superstars huge contracts. Like the Colts have done with Harrison, Wayne, Peyton and now Adam Vinatieri. But thats cool with me, they can let big parts of their defense leave because the Colts are unwilling to not give their stars gaudy contracts. So they will end up with many mediocore defensive players.

I mean cmon, did most of us believe David Givens would develope into a very good solid starter? It was BB/Charlie Weiss who developed him, he got a big head and took a ridiculously high paying offer from the Titans. But thats another example of stupid teams, giving decent players at best huge, enormous contracts. BB doesnt, BB and Pioli are known to be the best at managing the cap in the NFL.

 

[Iron Helmet]

And what the hell would you do? Keep on signing 30-year old free agents, or better yet, keeping on re-signing players until they're 50 years old, just because they're proven? And just let the rookies ride the bench for the duration of their contracts?

Replace proven quality with proven quality. I will buy the arguement that we did just that with the WRs, assuming Branch is back in the fold. However, we didn't with our LBs, as no one mentioned is proven...GEE...the PATS JUST SIGNED C BROWN...I guess they weren't satisfied with LB depth either.

But the overwhelming odds are, Maroney, Jackson, and the others will make a big impact with the Patriots, some coming this very year. That's the undeniable truth.

Agree, partially. I think we would be supremely lucky if 2 draft picks take over starting positions this year. Saying that "several" will make a "big impact" is a rediculous.

The front seven was certainly the strong-point of the Pats down the stretch. And only ONE piece has departed - and McGinest was FAR FROM the best piece of the said 7. In fact, he was more like the 3rd or 4th - maybe even 5th best piece.

Disagree. If you include his knack for big plays, and locker room leadership, he would be a top 2 piece of the front 7.

I am not knocking BB. I think he is one of the best coaches in the NFL. My concerns are we lack depth at key positions, making this team worse than last years. No depth at kicker, QB and LB. I am fine with everywhere else. If people step up, we could be better, however, all you are doing is ASSUMING people can and will step up to make this team better. This may very well happen, but taking a snapshot of the teams, and looking at them, I have to say last years team, to me looks stronger.

Actually, why don't you read them before making completely moronic statements like that? As the preface states, the book isn't supposed to expose secrets of the Patriots' system. It's not insider, but it's without a doubt the most comprehensive analysis of the organization you will see. The books mesh together quotes, facts, and figures into some excellent points of emphasis. Many Patriot fans already are familar with, but the extreme about of content only reinforces our sentiments.

I'll check it out, but you really need to check the Kool Aid at the door!

 

[pats1]

Replace proven quality with proven quality. I will buy the arguement that we did just that with the WRs, assuming Branch is back in the fold. However, we didn't with our LBs, as no one mentioned is proven...GEE...the PATS JUST SIGNED C BROWN...I guess they weren't satisfied with LB depth either.

The only way you're going to have proven depth at a position is by paying for 30-something proven players. The only way you're going to give the team a future at the position is by adding relatively unproven players with more potential. That exists in Mincey, Claridge, TBC, and even Klecko.

Agree, partially. I think we would be supremely lucky if 2 draft picks take over starting positions this year. Saying that "several" will make a "big impact" is a rediculous.

Several WILL make an impact SOMETIME down the road. For SOME of those, that IMPACT will begin THIS year. We saw that in Mankins/Kaczur/Hobbs this year, and Wilson/Wilfork/others in years past. For other picks, it may take a year or two before they start to make their impact.

Disagree. If you include his knack for big plays, and locker room leadership, he would be a top 2 piece of the front 7.

Seymour is #1, hands down. Bruschi is #2, if you so value on and off-field leadership. McGinest's play last year surpassed neither Vrabel nor Colvin. That's why he's #5, ahead of #6 (Wilfork), and #7 (Warren).

This year, McGinest is taken out of that equation, but Warren and Wilfork's continuing development will bump them up a few places, making room for another young guy (TBC, Mincey, Claridge, etc.) to step it at the back end and work their way up. That's how you continually improve your team - an eye on the future.

I am not knocking BB. I think he is one of the best coaches in the NFL. My concerns are we lack depth at key positions, making this team worse than last years. No depth at kicker, QB and LB. I am fine with everywhere else. If people step up, we could be better, however, all you are doing is ASSUMING people can and will step up to make this team better. This may very well happen, but taking a snapshot of the teams, and looking at them, I have to say last years team, to me looks stronger.

In terms of depth right now compared to January, the team is without a doubt deeper.

When the hell are you going to have DEPTH at kicker? Carry 3 or 4 kickers just for the depth? What the hell? QB? The Pats only need to keep 2. Brady has started every game since Week 3 of 2001. Just like what the Colts did with Manning, there comes a time when it's a waste to carry a 3rd QB. The Pats look like they love Cassel, too.

 

[Iron Helmet]

The only way you're going to have proven depth at a position is by paying for 30-something proven players. The only way you're going to give the team a future at the position is by adding relatively unproven players with more potential. That exists in Mincey, Claridge, TBC, and even Klecko..

You make my points for me...Players emerge. You are ready to throw Mincey and Claridge in the mix WITHOUT even minimal prepatory work. TBC is the only one ready, in my opinion. You think Klecko is ready for a spot rotating as an LB? YOUR NUTS. I would run at him all day if I was the opposing team. Signing Chad Brown proves my point.

Several WILL make an impact SOMETIME down the road. For SOME of those, that IMPACT will begin THIS year. We saw that in Mankins/Kaczur/Hobbs this year, and Wilson/Wilfork/others in years past. For other picks, it may take a year or two before they start to make their impact.

Once again, you make my point. It can take 2+ years for "impact" players to emerge.

Seymour is #1, hands down. Bruschi is #2, if you so value on and off-field leadership. McGinest's play last year surpassed neither Vrabel nor Colvin. That's why he's #5, ahead of #6 (Wilfork), and #7 (Warren).

This year, McGinest is taken out of that equation, but Warren and Wilfork's continuing development will bump them up a few places, making room for another young guy (TBC, Mincey, Claridge, etc.) to step it at the back end and work their way up. That's how you continually improve your team - an eye on the future.

I would argue that Big Mac is higher up on your chain. Bruschi was gone, and though he may not have "out played" Vrabel or Colvin, he certainly made as many, if not more, pivotal plays last year. I would also put his locker room leadership above both.

When the hell are you going to have DEPTH at kicker? Carry 3 or 4 kickers just for the depth? What the hell? QB? The Pats only need to keep 2. Brady has started every game since Week 3 of 2001. Just like what the Colts did with Manning, there comes a time when it's a waste to carry a 3rd QB. The Pats look like they love Cassel, too.

Man, you are foolish. How about ONE proven kicker? Thats depth enough. And if you are hanging your hat on Cassel to carry us if Brady goes down, you make my point again.

 

[14thDragon]

I mean cmon, did most of us believe David Givens would develope into a very good solid starter? It was BB/Charlie Weiss who developed him, he got a big head and took a ridiculously high paying offer from the Titans.

I aggree with you on almost all your points, except this one. David Givens did not so much get a big head, as another team went gaga over him. That he took the money and left town, hey, would you have turned down that kind of cash? I wouldn't and I figure it is just an example of someone knowing what they can get for themselves on the open market.

As for the doom and gloom outlook, Iron Helmet, go back to last season. Was David, Willie, or Adam the lynch pin in winning games. Wether they were hurt or not, the team kinda played the same. Where we were hurting last year on defense was the loss of Bruschi and Harrison. Not so much because we couldn't find guys with physical tools to replace them, but with them and Seymour gone, the defense was absolutly leaderless. Bruschi is back, Rodey will be back and hopefully some of the new kids have learned a thing or two.

ETA: On topic - The money will undoubtdly go to players on the team right now. Seymour will get a large slice, Brady will get some of it (I think), Koppen if he is healthy, Graham if he wants to stay probably a few more. No reason to over spend on FA if there is no one really worth going after. Better to protect the squad you have from other teams.

On offense, the comlpete and utter lack of a running game was killer. We did not even have a paper tiger of a running game. Now we have a healthier Dillon and a newly minted Patriot in Maroney. Givens was a good possesion reciever, a good part of the offense, but not irreplaceable. Ashworth was a back-up tackle on a team that can build O-lineman in the basement.

 

[pats1]

You make my points for me...Players emerge. You are ready to throw Mincey and Claridge in the mix WITHOUT even minimal prepatory work. TBC is the only one ready, in my opinion. You think Klecko is ready for a spot rotating as an LB? YOUR NUTS. I would run at him all day if I was the opposing team. Signing Chad Brown proves my point.

Once again, you make my point. It can take 2+ years for "impact" players to emerge.

I would argue that Big Mac is higher up on your chain. Bruschi was gone, and though he may not have "out played" Vrabel or Colvin, he certainly made as many, if not more, pivotal plays last year. I would also put his locker room leadership above both.

Man, you are foolish. How about ONE proven kicker? Thats depth enough. And if you are hanging your hat on Cassel to carry us if Brady goes down, you make my point again.

Your philoshopies are the exact opposite of spacecrime's. He personally believes draft picks with potential should take higher priority (that might not be the best way to put it) over veterans.

You believe that proven players should take supreme priority over "unproven" rookies.

I'm somewhere in-between.