Patriots Pregame Thread Week 4 discussion: Pats @ Niners

[mgteich]

We were the 3rd worse in the NFL last year. Last year I don't remember looking as bad as we did in the JETS game. Being in a rebuild is no excuse for going backwards. Hope is not a football strategy.

First, you have a poor memory. I recall a game in Germany

Is having your starting LT and LG out on injuries a terrible excuse. Is losing Barmore and Bentley a terrible excuse? perhaps.
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I do NOT expect our probably 4-6 win team to look good in every game. I expected (as we all did) us to go 1-3 or 0-4 in the first quarter.
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I refuse to judge our progress after every game. Let's see where we are at the half, after the bye and at the end of the season. I expect to see development and improved play at QB, WR and OL. Perhaps that will happen. Perhaps I'll be disappointed.

Many will be disappointed no matter what happens in the next 14 games. For them, the staff has already failed. They signed the wrong veteran LT and drafted the wrong OL's. The team will likely meet the expectations of the bettors, 4 or 5 wins, but that won't change anything.

 

[mgteich]

We don't need solid guys. We need 8 core All Pro types. Maye, Barmore, White, Gonzo, and????? Strange has the athleticism to continue to grow but you can't count him. When the team is picking at #3, only Maye as a core guy is a fail.

To be clear. We drafted an all-pro type at 3. Not draft another in the 2nd round is a fail? OK, they failed.

 

[upstater1]

Your optimism is good. I am optimistic about Maye. He looks great and seems to process fast. His comments are on point which indicates knowledge and understanding.

I am not optimistic about Wolf. His FA was a joke. His OL rebuild is a disaster. His comments about the OL and Okorafor and Wallace playing LT were dumb.

If I listen to Maye I think "this guy gets it". When I listen to Wolf I think "this guy is an idiot".

I honestly like Mayo, Maye and all our defensive coaches.

I am a little bit of a doubter on the offensive coaches but I certainly will give them a chance.

I am decidedly down on Wolf. This year's draft was the biggest missed opportunities in ages. And I'm thinking he has a thing for metrics that is leading him astray.

 

[sb1]

Dallas and NO... any questions?

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The finale… Jets 17 Pats 3… that wasn’t Aaron Rodgers that beat us it was Trevor Siemian. Lol

Shut out at home vs the worst defense in football (Chargers)

Giants game was also horrendous.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

To be clear. We drafted an all-pro type at 3. Not draft another in the 2nd round is a fail? OK, they failed.

Yes, an All Pro type in R1 #3 is a layup. You and I could have done that. It takes a special talent to screw up that pick.

Now I am hearing the balance of the 2024 draft is "solid". That is a fail. We got Barmore and White early on R2 in 2022 and 2023. Gonzo and White in 2023 is a success.

Strange is solid. How many times did we hear that Strange is a fail?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I honestly like Mayo, Maye and all our defensive coaches.

I am a little bit of a doubter on the offensive coaches but I certainly will give them a chance.

I am decidedly down on Wolf. This year's draft was the biggest missed opportunities in ages. And I'm thinking he has a thing for metrics that is leading him astray.

Great post.

The defense was poor against the JETS because they did not recognize and adjust fast enough. BB was like that sometimes too - frustrating because I do not understand why we do that. In this case it lost the game. So I am still looking at Mayo and Covington.

The offense is so rudimentary that the JETS knew what we were doing. Back to the Patricia offense - same thing. AVP looks like a bust to me.

Wolf should not do public speaking. It is embarrassing.

 

[pctronics0072]

My prediction for Brisket this game.

 

[Ross12]

I honestly like Mayo, Maye and all our defensive coaches.

I am a little bit of a doubter on the offensive coaches but I certainly will give them a chance.

I am decidedly down on Wolf. This year's draft was the biggest missed opportunities in ages. And I'm thinking he has a thing for metrics that is leading him astray.

I don’t think the draft in and of itself was bad. They got their QB of the future, a pretty good possession WR who will probably do well behind a “true number 1” that they’ve been trying to acquire and will continue to try to acquire, a guard who shows promise, a tackle who can probably be a solid RT and maybe a shot at a swing tackle, another WR with some future potential, and the rest is mostly gravy.

The issue is really just how left tackle was handled, which was managed very strangely. The management of the interior OL is pretty sensible, and Onwenu was signed to be the starting RT - so overall all those positions make sense. But LT just doesn’t. They collected a bunch of “maybe” guys in Lowe, Okorafor, and Wallace and said “well, one of these guys will probably be good enough…” Then when that didn’t really look that good they claimed Jacobs too which just looks desperate.

To me, it seems like Wolf and company knew that they had a big hole at LT but didn’t want to throw a bunch of money at an old guy to fill it when they’d probably just be spending their top pick on the position in 2025 anyway. So instead they just threw a bunch of dart throws at it to try to kick the can down the road 1 year until they can fix it in the next draft.

In theory this makes some sense but in practice when all those dart throws suck it makes the product blow and really ****s over the team. So I do have to kind of hold Wolf accountable because it’s negligent - paying an older guy wasn’t ideal but it is what it is. You do it for now and move on next year if you have to.

Let’s hope that they get everyone back healthy by week 5 and things start to look a little more steady, if not spectacular.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don’t think the draft in and of itself was bad. They got their QB of the future, a pretty good possession WR who will probably do well behind a “true number 1” that they’ve been trying to acquire and will continue to try to acquire, a guard who shows promise, a tackle who can probably be a solid RT and maybe a shot at a swing tackle, another WR with some future potential, and the rest is mostly gravy.

The issue is really just how left tackle was handled, which was managed very strangely. The management of the interior OL is pretty sensible, and Onwenu was signed to be the starting RT - so overall all those positions make sense. But LT just doesn’t. They collected a bunch of “maybe” guys in Lowe, Okorafor, and Wallace and said “well, one of these guys will probably be good enough…” Then when that didn’t really look that good they claimed Jacobs too which just looks desperate.

To me, it seems like Wolf and company knew that they had a big hole at LT but didn’t want to throw a bunch of money at an old guy to fill it when they’d probably just be spending their top pick on the position in 2025 anyway. So instead they just threw a bunch of dart throws at it to try to kick the can down the road 1 year until they can fix it in the next draft.

In theory this makes some sense but in practice when all those dart throws suck it makes the product blow and really ****s over the team. So I do have to kind of hold Wolf accountable because it’s negligent - paying an older guy wasn’t ideal but it is what it is. You do it for now and move on next year if you have to.

Let’s hope that they get everyone back healthy by week 5 and things start to look a little more steady, if not spectacular.

Good post.

I do not think a possession WR at the top of R2 is acceptable. Barmore and White are two top of R2 guys and could be All Pro. That is the target for the top of R2. A swing tackle in R3 is a miss as well.

If we keep drafting 1 All Pro in R1, and #2s and #3s in R2 and R3, we will never get back to the top. We need to expect and demand more.

Posters hated the Strange pick. If Strange was healthy he would be our best OLman.

We will never get back if the front office does not do better in FA and drafting.

 

[Edelmania]

Good post.

I do not think a possession WR at the top of R2 is acceptable. Barmore and White are two top of R2 guys and could be All Pro. That is the target for the top of R2. A swing tackle in R3 is a miss as well.

If we keep drafting 1 All Pro in R1, and #2s and #3s in R2 and R3, we will never get back to the top. We need to expect and demand more.

Posters hated the Strange pick. If Strange was healthy he would be our best OLman.

We will never get back if the front office does not do better in FA and drafting.

Strange would almost certainly not be our best olineman. We don't really know how he'd look but id think Onwenu, Sow, and Andrews would all be better than him.

Also it is way to early to make judgements on this years draft class. Polk looks like a promising rookie, for all we know he could end up being a #1. "Possession WR" is a style not a ceiling. Robinson has lots of promise too, he can move people, just because he's made a decent bit of mistakes in his first few games his rookie season doesn't mean he cant become a special player. Plenty OL (or any position really) don't even play in their rookie year and turn out great. Same goes for Wallace (though I admit he's not been as promising)

 

[Edelmania]

I don’t think the draft in and of itself was bad. They got their QB of the future, a pretty good possession WR who will probably do well behind a “true number 1” that they’ve been trying to acquire and will continue to try to acquire, a guard who shows promise, a tackle who can probably be a solid RT and maybe a shot at a swing tackle, another WR with some future potential, and the rest is mostly gravy.

The issue is really just how left tackle was handled, which was managed very strangely. The management of the interior OL is pretty sensible, and Onwenu was signed to be the starting RT - so overall all those positions make sense. But LT just doesn’t. They collected a bunch of “maybe” guys in Lowe, Okorafor, and Wallace and said “well, one of these guys will probably be good enough…” Then when that didn’t really look that good they claimed Jacobs too which just looks desperate.

To me, it seems like Wolf and company knew that they had a big hole at LT but didn’t want to throw a bunch of money at an old guy to fill it when they’d probably just be spending their top pick on the position in 2025 anyway. So instead they just threw a bunch of dart throws at it to try to kick the can down the road 1 year until they can fix it in the next draft.

In theory this makes some sense but in practice when all those dart throws suck it makes the product blow and really ****s over the team. So I do have to kind of hold Wolf accountable because it’s negligent - paying an older guy wasn’t ideal but it is what it is. You do it for now and move on next year if you have to.

Let’s hope that they get everyone back healthy by week 5 and things start to look a little more steady, if not spectacular.

Our LT situation is certainly unfortunate but I don't think there were many alternatives.
Sure you could've paid Tyron Smith 21M+ for a year but is that really worth it in a year when we aren't ready to compete anyway?
Sure we could've given Jonah Williams a multi-year 15M+/year contract but do you really want to pay that much and make a multi year commitment for a player who is still below average?
Those were the only decent tackles available in free agency. I am also against the idea of forcing a tackle in round two because of need. We needed a WR too and a good WR was there. The R2 tackles don't look like anything special so far, and expecting a R2 tackle to come in and be a solid starter right away would have been just as negligent anyway.
You cant rebuild an entire team in one year without hitting the lottery, and the way the cards fell tackle had to be the spot to wait. Sure this year may be painful but it was never going to be pretty, I personally have no problem with being patient and getting Maye that true long-term stud tackle in the 1st round next off season.

 

[TommyD4207]

Wallace and Robinson can become solid players.

Based on what, exactly? Their ability to be turnstiles and not charge a fare? Not needing matador capes to ole' the defensive lineman in front of them?

Neither of them can play. Even a little. Neither of them. Here's one excellent example:



Wallace and Jordan, beaten instantly, on a very basic stunt. Robinson, completely overpowered, needed Onwenu AND Andrews to help TRIPLE TEAM the DT just so Brissett wouldn't die.

The only player who held his block for more than a second on this play was Rhamondre Stevenson, and he was on a block-and-release.

 

[TommyD4207]

Strange would almost certainly not be our best olineman. We don't really know how he'd look but id think Onwenu, Sow, and Andrews would all be better than him.

Cole Strange, as poorly as he was playing hurt last year, would be the Patriots best offensive lineman by a pretty good margin if he came back at just that level.

Onwenu's been terrible at right tackle. David Andrews has lost two steps, and looks like he's in quicksand.

Also, this contention that Sidy Sow is somehow good is laughable. What..are we even doing anymore, if this is the cope?

 

[Toofy]

Tbh, the putrid play and non compete has made watching the games a big stinker. No longer looking forward to the weekend from an NFL perspective. Really happy that I have other hobbies , activities and interests to look forward to the weekend .

Right now just waiting for April 2025 to see how we can trade down, get starting LT of future and also another starting linemen while getting tee Higgins to Sigb here .

I don't want us to play Maye till week 9 . 1 million per game for Jacoby. And I think we cheated Jacoby and are underpaying him for the hits he is taking .

Essentially 8 million for a career killing , hit absorbing contract .

 

[Real fan 02]

Based on what, exactly? Their ability to be turnstiles and not charge a fare? Not needing matador capes to ole' the defensive lineman in front of them?

Neither of them can play. Even a little. Neither of them. Here's one excellent example:



Wallace and Jordan, beaten instantly, on a very basic stunt. Robinson, completely overpowered, needed Onwenu AND Andrews to help TRIPLE TEAM the DT just so Brissett wouldn't die.

The only player who held his block for more than a second on this play was Rhamondre Stevenson, and he was on a block-and-release.

Look.. we know the line is a problem. I'm simply saying they are rookies. They will have to play and get better. They are playing out of need. The first round pick stranger is out. The back up Sow is out. So here we are. The line is what it is. Whoever is out there will simple have to man up and block the man in front of them. I mean I really don't know what more Peter's can do. We probably have the most distorted line in the NFL.

 

[ALP]

Based on what, exactly? Their ability to be turnstiles and not charge a fare? Not needing matador capes to ole' the defensive lineman in front of them?

Neither of them can play. Even a little. Neither of them. Here's one excellent example:



Wallace and Jordan, beaten instantly, on a very basic stunt. Robinson, completely overpowered, needed Onwenu AND Andrews to help TRIPLE TEAM the DT just so Brissett wouldn't die.

The only player who held his block for more than a second on this play was Rhamondre Stevenson, and he was on a block-and-release.

this may be the worst single pass protection play I've ever seen in my life by any team

 

[Real fan 02]

Yes, an All Pro type in R1 #3 is a layup. You and I could have done that. It takes a special talent to screw up that pick.

Now I am hearing the balance of the 2024 draft is "solid". That is a fail. We got Barmore and White early on R2 in 2022 and 2023. Gonzo and White in 2023 is a success.

Strange is solid. How many times did we hear that Strange is a fail?

I see your point. Your saying we need all pro caliber players. Your right we do. Going back to the offseason. When this defense was healthy and had a judon that was optimistic about a new deal. We had a formidable defense. Even still I would have liked to add a bit more at LB and DL.. personally I would have liked wolf with his green bay ties to trade for jahire Alexander a all pro to pair with gonzo. Our current CB group I had expected more from Austin, Wilson. Instead 5'10 and 5'9 Marcus are having to take on guys 6'5.

To summize... we are a team that has to play dam near perfectly to have a chance in any game. Even AVP alluded to the fact due to the line play it's limiting what he can call on offense. There is no savior coming Wallace and Robinson if they are out there are going to have to become men fast.

 

[PatsFan2]

Lol

Nice upgrade there Patriots who's running this ship.

 

[archstanton543]

Essentially 8 million for a career killing , hit absorbing contract .

Career killing? He's going to be a backup somewhere next year. He's been a career backup until he "won" the starting job here.

 

[PatsFan2]

I really want to see how the defense responds here. They showed poor tackling and questionable scheming. If the strength of our team isn’t a strength anymore, then we have bigger questions than who our backup offensive linemen are.

I wasn't happy when we Traded Judon but many here felt like we will get a Hofer with that Third Rounder. At least we're not on National Television.