We Do Not Need Any More Receivers

[Kdo5]

I dont want some superstar to sign. A solid WR who can put up the same numbers as Caldwell or Gaffney. 50-60 catches around there. I'd rather have a group of solid hard working recievers than paying tons and tons of money for a stud WR. Caldwell & Gaffney came very cheap I think, so that is a lot better than spending too on one guy.

Caldwell, Gaffney, (solid FA or draft pick), Jackson and maybe Brown will even come back. That wouldnt be too bad as long as Chad takes a bigger role next year and the new WR is productive enough to get around 40-50 catches.

 

[maverick4]

I think PFnV and Kdo have it right: our offense is based on getting the ball to whoever is open, or to exploit the defensive matchups. To this end, it makes more sense to have 3-4 guys who are solid versus 1 superstar receiver who the defense can key on.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

It depends on how they feel about Chad Jackson.

If they think he's close now and will take a big step up with a full offseason/training camp then we probably just need to use a 3rd-5th round pick on a 5th WR.

If they think Jackson is going to be a bust we need more talent in here at WR. Badly.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I think PFnV and Kdo have it right: our offense is based on getting the ball to whoever is open, or to exploit the defensive matchups. To this end, it makes more sense to have 3-4 guys who are solid versus 1 superstar receiver who the defense can key on.

ya we saw what happened when the offense was keyed on watson.

the entire pats team is focused on overall depth, they are sold across the board.

 

[upstater1]

Isn't this idea that the Patriots don't want a #1 top flight receiver, that they won't devote the big $$ to such a guy, already undercut by the fact that Belichick told Branch he would give him his money if he agreed to fire his agent?

Clearly, the Patriots have no aversion to having a #1, and paying him big time bucks.

 

[Kdo5]

Have the Pats under Belichick EVER signed a superstar WR or drafted a WR in the first round? I dont think he has and therefore dont see any reason as to why he and Pioli will now.

All I can expect from Caldwell, Gaffney and Jackson is improvement.

 

[upstater1]

This kind of talk happens every year. I think that WR can be among the most hyped up positions in all of football, they get lots of attention, and I don't think high WR draft picks translate into wins very often.

By the way, I watched a Calvin Johnson clip, and he does not seem very quick to me. He will have trouble separating in the NFL beyond pure sprint patterns. At best, he will become something like Michael Irvin or Plaxico (at best).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0BPsx77TkqA

That clip was amazing. But I've seen him play about 12 games over his career. Not quick? he's a burner. He's very fast, runs crisp routes, adjusts his body, and has incredible hands. Not to mention the fact he was playing with one of the worst QBs in college ball. That clip showed him separating easily with great moves multiple times. At best Plaxico Burress? I think you're severely underrating the kid.

And I'm not sure you hear such kudos about a kid every year. I didn't hear this stuff about Braylon Edwards. Even Larry Fitzgerald didn't have the college career that Johnson had.

As I said, the last WR to play this well in college was Terry Glenn, and Johnson seems to have more physical attributes than Glenn. Plus, he comes from a great background and is a high character kid. Very unlike the prima donna WRs we've gotten used to.

 

[Kdo5]

That clip was amazing. But I've seen him play about 12 games over his career. Not quick? he's a burner. He's very fast, runs crisp routes, adjusts his body, and has incredible hands. Not to mention the fact he was playing with one of the worst QBs in college ball. That clip showed him separating easily with great moves multiple times. At best Plaxico Burress? I think you're severely underrating the kid.

And I'm not sure you hear such kudos about a kid every year. I didn't hear this stuff about Braylon Edwards. Even Larry Fitzgerald didn't have the college career that Johnson had.

As I said, the last WR to play this well in college was Terry Glenn, and Johnson seems to have more physical attributes than Glenn. Plus, he comes from a great background and is a high character kid. Very unlike the prima donna WRs we've gotten used to.

Just looked at that clip and was very impressed but I dont think there is any shot we would be able to get him.

We need a LB and to give up two first rounders in hopes that if we somehow got him or another early first round WR I think that would be too risky of a move to take.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Isn't this idea that the Patriots don't want a #1 top flight receiver, that they won't devote the big $$ to such a guy, already undercut by the fact that Belichick told Branch he would give him his money if he agreed to fire his agent?

Clearly, the Patriots have no aversion to having a #1, and paying him big time bucks.

You know, I'd like to have the actual quotes surrounding that drama. I doubt he promised Branch a set amount of money, in a set structure, if Branch fired his agent -- since such a deal would only be done through that agent, until he is got rid of.

There would be a big difference between saying "I know we can work this out, if you fire Chayut -- we'll deal with anyone but this guy..." and saying "We're paying $6M APY, structured thus and such, with a signing bonus of X in 2006, if you make the playing time incentives of $100K, $200K, and $500K at..." and expect him to agree without talking to his agent.

Just saying, I'd love to see the story recapped from sources, rather than the talk about the talk about the headline a year ago. Hey, maybe you're right... but I'll just give you the ol' burden of proof. I mean, what did they make, an "offer to make an offer"?

PFnV

 

[upstater1]

Have the Pats under Belichick EVER signed a superstar WR or drafted a WR in the first round? I dont think he has and therefore dont see any reason as to why he and Pioli will now.

All I can expect from Caldwell, Gaffney and Jackson is improvement.

I don't expect them to do it this year either since there is no one at #24 who is worth that pick.

 

[upstater1]

You know, I'd like to have the actual quotes surrounding that drama. I doubt he promised Branch a set amount of money, in a set structure, if Branch fired his agent -- since such a deal would only be done through that agent, until he is got rid of.

There would be a big difference between saying "I know we can work this out, if you fire Chayut -- we'll deal with anyone but this guy..." and saying "We're paying $6M APY, structured thus and such, with a signing bonus of X in 2006, if you make the playing time incentives of $100K, $200K, and $500K at..." and expect him to agree without talking to his agent.

Just saying, I'd love to see the story recapped from sources, rather than the talk about the talk about the headline a year ago. Hey, maybe you're right... but I'll just give you the ol' burden of proof. I mean, what did they make, an "offer to make an offer"?

PFnV

It's been heavily sourced. In fact, Chayut filed a grievance with the NFL stating that Belichick had said this precisely. It was in all the Boston papers. Belichick even went on record with his defense when he said that he didn't call Branch and say that, but that they had this conversation when Branch called him. Jeffrey Kessler, Belichick's former attorney, represented Branch in this matter. This is actually a well-known fact, and many thought that Branch would lose this grievance because he was the one who called Belichick. But it is against the rules for such an offer to be made.

 

[RayClay]

No different than other positions...if we have a chance to upgrade -- we'll do it.

Either way, with a healthy Jackson, the addition of the now experienced Gaffney and Caldwell, and the hopeful return of Troy, we'll field a more impressive group than the three who dressed on opening day (Caldwell/Brown/Childress).

Thanks, I'm lazy. Pretty much what i was going to post.

 

[stcjones]

Receiver is not an area of need for this team. We almost reached the Superbowl with what we had, and came up short in that game mostly due to a tanked/injured defense, a missed Caldwell catch, and two bad penalties (Troy Brown PI and Ellis Hobbs PI). We can win with our receivers, and they are not as big a liability as people here seem to think.

Among our receivers...Reche Caldwell out-performed Branch this year. Jabar Gaffney came in and immediately produced for us. Chad Jackson, as his HS and college history have shown, always comes back strong in his second year after learning a new system. We still have Troy as well.

We have stacked our offense with talent over the past two years, and they just need an off-season to gel. Our primary needs this year in free agency and the draft, in order of importance, are:
- Inside Linebacker: a run-stuffer who can also cover tight ends
- Safety: a Rodney replacement
- Cornerback: only if Asante isn't coming back
- Get Josh McDaniels in the film room and have him scout his own tendencies and faults

Disagree respectfully overall......I think that Caldwell is a #3 receiver for us at best.....He "overperformed" this year, but I am not confident (especially after watching his shaky performance in AFCC) in him at #1 or 2......Gaffney is worth more looks....HUGE catch in that game.....and stepped up big in the other playoff games......Hopefully, Jackson will come around......but may be traded prior to TC ...or cut...if BB doesn't think he will catch on....or can stay healthy....I think overall we DO need to pick up a top shelf WR in FA and draft a few as well.......One man's opinion

Oh...and PS......McDaniels needs to GO......

 

[Kdo5]

Disagree respectfully overall......I think that Caldwell is a #3 receiver for us at best.....He "overperformed" this year, but I am not confident (especially after watching his shaky performance in AFCC) in him at #1 or 2......Gaffney is worth more looks....HUGE catch in that game.....and stepped up big in the other playoff games......Hopefully, Jackson will come around......but may be traded prior to TC ...or cut...if BB doesn't think he will catch on....or can stay healthy....I think overall we DO need to pick up a top shelf WR in FA and draft a few as well.......One man's opinion

Oh...and PS......McDaniels needs to GO......

Caldwell is definitley a #2 reciever for us. He played well this year, very good in the second half of the season. He put up respectfull numbers for a guy who never came close to that type of production in his Chargers days. I wont be suprised to see Caldwell get anywhere from 70-75 catches and 800-850 yards. It would be totally pointless at this point to stick Brady's #1 target as a backup.

And Jackson needs to be given more time in games, we'll see hopefully in preseason. He cant do much without experience. And he didnt get a lot of it in 2006. And he was injured early on but that doesnt mean he is a very injury prone players. Most everyone gets injured at some point for a small amount of time.

 

[stcjones]

actually i take back about WR not being 1 of the top needs

if Chad doesnt get it together..what happens? Gaffney and Caldwell aint stretching the field...teams still wont play off us..they will stack the box again. but then again..not all rnd 1 WRs are sucessfull..waiting to late 2nd-3rd might be good

note to BB: do not run suprise 40 yard dashes this year..we know Chad is fast

this is the true "sanity" on this board....good post....

 

[maverick4]

this is the true "sanity" on this board....good post....

I disagree. Stretching the field, and keeping the safety from crowding the box, is more about X's and O's than it is about one speed burner.

If we set up in the proper formation, the safeties will have to respect the deep threat and will play accordingly.

If you think the safeties are cheating too much against us, then your beef is with McDaniels, or with the fact that the Pats have so many offensive formations that are bunched up (receivers set so close to the O-line formation).

 

[stcjones]

Yes. We would. Would we think we didn't need to increase speed at LB if we don't have 12 men in the huddle and convert that last drive into a first down? Of course we would. Even championship teams have holes and spots they can improve.

Our offense struggled at times this year because our WRs couldn't get open. At other times, teams were able to crowd the line of scrimmage and stuff our running game because our WRs aren't downfield threats. There is no denying that. Why would we not want to improve what is clearly a position of weakness?

And where does the idea come from that a team with our cap room and our draft picks has to pick between LB, S, CB, or WR? We have the opportunity and means to improve all of them. Why would we not try to do that?

Great points here...the inability of our WR's to get open or find a seam ....or get on the same page consistently....hurt us (and Brady this year). Now don't get me wrong.....I was PLEASANTLY surprised by Caldwell this year.....I give him alot of credit for coming in here and learning the O and putting together a great year. But,If you ask...."could we do better than Caldwell at WR for next year?".....I think we can all answer that and Reche would not be the answer at the 1 or 2 spot. HE COULD still be valuable at the #3-4 spot for us........I just see us having SOME better options out there in FA...and also to hopefully score another good prospect that can step in (ala Colston) and be productive right from the start....one man's opinion

 

[stcjones]

Aren't you guys tired of Brady having to make lemonade out of lemons? We b*tch that Brady has never had the surrounding cast that Manning's had, yet we want to continue with Gaffney & Caldwell? Let's get this guy a top flight receiver already for crying out loud!

Amen.....and make the move EARLY so BB, Brady and them can work together this offseason/preseason to establish that timing, rythm and trust.......GO PATS!!!!

 

[stcjones]

The Patriots could use another wide receiver as an upgrade to Childress and Kight. Supposedly, New England Patriots scout(s) were seen talking to following wide receiver during Senior Bowl practices:

Name: Chris Davis
College: Florida State Number: 5
Height: 5-10 Weight: 180
Position: WR Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2007
40 Time: 4.50 40 Low: 4.48 40 High: 4.53
Projected Round: 7 Stock:
Rated number 34 out of 289 WR's

Analysis

Positives: Has a lean frame, but shows well-defined muscles…Has the foot quickness to get in and out of his cuts…Demonstrates effective change of direction agility and the second gear to separate coming out of his breaks…Very alert to defensive coverages and is slippery enough to avoid the crowd…Times his leaps well and despite his lack of size, his jumping ability lets him win most battles when attempting to get to the pass at its high point…Generates the body control and ability to sink his weight to adjust to the ball in flight…Builds his acceleration quickly coming off the snap and has the balance and flexibility to run sharp routes…Short strider who can reach top speed well, if given a free lane…While not explosive, he flashes good initial quickness and shows the avoidance agility to get past the jam…Also utilizes his change of direction agility to get into his routes when releasing off the line…Puts the defensive back on his heels with Chris' ability to run quick, clean routes.

Shows very good field vision (former prep quarterback) and is alert to the blitz, working back to the line quickly when the pocket is pressured…Knows where the soft spots in the zone are and is quick to anticipate the opponent's coverage… Does a good job of uncovering and detach from the cornerback to separate after the catch…Has the stride to run away from that coverage…Gets into and out of his break point with no wasted motion…Best when used on deep routes, as he doesn't have the size to take on defenders in a crowd, but will not hesitate to settle underneath…Natural hands catcher who looks the ball in well and shows the arm extension to catch away from his frame…Can adjust to the ball on contact due to his good feel for the ball in flight…Shows good concentration and leaping ability…Has the functional speed to stretch the defense and the maneuverability to break away from a lethargic defender in the open field…Even though he lacks bulk, he shows true courage laying out and going vertical to secure the ball…More of a pester type cut blocker, but takes good angles when operating in space.

Negatives: Has a thin frame that might be close to maximum growth potential…Despite showing lean muscle tone, he doesn't have the leg drive to break tackles or maintain position when asked to block along the line…Does not show the hand explosion to shock a defensive back and get a clean release vs. a physical press (best when he avoids and gets a clean release rather than pushing off the defender)…Has good timed speed and acceleration, but doesn't show the suddenness or explosion to leave tacklers grabbing at air…Has adequate moves to get a release, but needs to use head and shoulder fakes more often…Even when he finds the seam on short routes, he will generally be brought down by the initial tackle vs. the larger defenders (needs to avoid rather than attack his opponent)…Elusive, showing very good acceleration after the catch, but he is not going to break many tackles and is easy to knock down once a defender gets a hand on him…. Good team leader, but struggles with academics and has gotten into the coaches' dog house for missing classroom work…Needs to do a better job of securing the ball before running with it, as he leaves it too exposed, resulting in costly fumbles.

Compares To: TROY WALTERS-Indianapolis-Davis is a slippery runner with good acceleration in the open, but once a defender gets a piece of him, the battle is usually over. He is a fearless sort, though, who will go vertical to make the tough catch. Like Walters, he shows some adequate return skills and is capable of gaining positive yardage on the reverse due to his cutback ability.

Too little.......Pats need bigger/taller receivers......

 

[Seneschal2]

It depends on how they feel about Chad Jackson.

If they think he's close now and will take a big step up with a full offseason/training camp then we probably just need to use a 3rd-5th round pick on a 5th WR.

If they think Jackson is going to be a bust we need more talent in here at WR. Badly.

Problem is, they don't KNOW about Jackson YET -- it's too soon. All BB knows at this point in time is Jackson needs a full TC and pre-season under his belt in order to grasp the offense. Reportedly, he's a hard worker who when healthy, has shown some flashes of physical ability during practice and games. The coaches obviously know more than we do behind the scenes...especially regarding his learning curve.

BB, the OC, and position coach all did their homework on Jackson. His lack of pre-season reps, limited in-season reps, and two separate injuries have undoubtedly slowed his progress. If he's healthy throughout this pre-season, and still doesn't see much game action once the season begins, I'd start scratching my head over this pick. But I doubt we'll be disappointed -- IF he's healthy.

The addition of another WR may have more to do with Troy's status and evaluation of Kight and Childress than a concern about Jackson. If we have a chance to upgrade from Bam and Kight or find a replacement for Troy -- we will. And besides...competition is healthy. JMO.