We Could Trade Givens, I'd Franchise Him

[BelichickFan]

bingo husker. What team would give up $6 mil + 2 #1 picks for Givens? There is no way he is worth that. This whole thread is based on the idea that the draft picks can be negotiated. They cannot. A team must give up 2 #1 picks. That aint happening.

The draft picks can be negotiated. We franchised Tebucky. Once the Saints and he agreed on a long term deal. the Saints and Pats agreed on compensation and we traded him while tagged and the Saints and Tebucky signed the new contract.

 

[BelichickFan]

If all else fails, who says you can't remove the Franchise Tag from him.
Atleast you tried.

Once he's signed the franchise deal I don't think it can be removed unless the player agrees to it (by agreeing to a long term contract). If he signed it and we couldn't trade him we would potentially be stuck with him for the franchise tag amount but just for one year.

 

[spacecrime]

If your answer is anything other than "none of the above" you are an idiot.

You don't replace kickers "cheap" if you want to go far in the playoffs.

Replacing Vinatieri would be much more difficult than replacing Givens.

Yeah we went real deep into the playoffs with him. You ask who we would want to kick a 47 yarder, and say it ought to be the guy that missed the 43 yarder. There is an idiot involved here, but I think he is the guy in yur mirror

He was the 17th rated kicker in the NFL last year. You can cherry pick wierd stats all you want to try to prove something, but he wasn't that good. He was the highest paid kicker, and finished in the bottom half of the kicker standings.

AV is good, but we will not live or die depending on whether or not he is signed.

 

[Alk]

Rackers
Phil Dawson
Joe Nedney
Todd Peterson
Vanderjerk
Stover
Shane Graham
Nate Kaeding
Jeff Wilkins
John Hall
Matt Bryant
Jay Feeley
Olindo Mare
Lindell
Jeff Reed
Tynes

Which one of these kickers with a better FG % than Vinatieri would you want to line up for a 47 yarder with the game on the line in the playoffs more than Vinatieri?

If your answer is anything other than "none of the above" you are an idiot. Statistics for kickers need to be looked at more closely than simply reciting a kicker's ranking. At least 9 of those kickers make the majority of their kicks indoors or in nice weather. Also, Vinatieri only had 17 ATTEMPTS under 40 yards. Most of those kickers had many more opportunities in that range to pad their %. He missed 5 FG's all year and 2 of those were from over 50 yards.

You don't replace kickers "cheap" if you want to go far in the playoffs.

Replacing Vinatieri would be much more difficult than replacing Givens.

You left out Ryan Longwell. I'll take him thank you very much.

 

[Patriot Games]

Yeah we went real deep into the playoffs with him. You ask who we would want to kick a 47 yarder, and say it ought to be the guy that missed the 43 yarder.

Umm, we won 3 Super Bowls and in each the difference was 3 points. 2 of them ended with a Vinatieri field goal. You cannot simply replace that with another kicker who had a higher % in one year.




There is an idiot involved here, but I think he is the guy in yur mirror


Here's a piece of free advice: When calling someone an idiot, or any other name implying a lack of intelligence, try not to mispell the word "your." It makes you look stupid.



He was the 17th rated kicker in the NFL last year.

No he wasn't. He had the 17th highest field goal %. That may be how you "rate" a kicker, but there are many other things that go into it that you've omitted.


You can cherry pick wierd stats all you want to try to prove something, but he wasn't that good.

Yeah, those are really weird stats, field goals under 40 yards. Considering that the majority of field goals that are attempted are under 40 yards, I can see where you would consider that weird.



He was the highest paid kicker, and finished in the bottom half of the kicker standings.


Again, based on what? Field Goal %? You need to look inside the numbers. If you think that AV is in the bottom half of league kickers, then I will respectfully disagree. Actually, I will not respectfully disagree, but rather, I will disagree and think that you are a complete moron.


AV is good, but we will not live or die depending on whether or not he is signed.

Wow, what a bold statement. Do you mean to tell me that you think football is a team effort and one player doesn't determine the fate of the whole team? You're a genius. But I would still prefer to have the best clutch kicker in the league on my team instead of matt bryant or shane graham. Call me crazy.

 

[fgssand]

Wow, what a bold statement. Do you mean to tell me that you think football is a team effort and one player doesn't determine the fate of the whole team? You're a genius. But I would still prefer to have the best clutch kicker in the league on my team instead of matt bryant or shane graham. Call me crazy.

Your not crazy, you are 100% right. I cannot believe the short memories around here, before AV - when every single kick was an adventure. Was anyone a Pats fan in 2001, 203 or 2004?? Can anybody else understand clutch? Did anyone watch the Colts game this year? Idiots all, if you think we should let AV leave while he can still kick. Unreall....

 

[Alk]

Your not crazy, you are 100% right. I cannot believe the short memories around here, before AV - when every single kick was an adventure. Was anyone a Pats fan in 2001, 203 or 2004?? Can anybody else understand clutch? Did anyone watch the Colts game this year? Idiots all, if you think we should let AV leave while he can still kick. Unreall....

You're misreading most of us. I don't think there is a single one of us who wouldn't love to see Vinatieri finish his career here. For over $3 million a season though? No thanks. 2001 was the only time Vinatieri had an out of this world kick. The kick in the Raiders game is stuff that legends are made of and that's the only reason everyone talks about him being a clutch kicker. The rest of those kicks were just pretty average kicks indoors no less. There are plenty of the kickers in the league that I would be comfortable making those kicks and they're not getting paid $3 million to do it.

 

[Patriot Games]

You're misreading most of us. I don't think there is a single one of us who wouldn't love to see Vinatieri finish his career here. For over $3 million a season though? No thanks. 2001 was the only time Vinatieri had an out of this world kick. The kick in the Raiders game is stuff that legends are made of and that's the only reason everyone talks about him being a clutch kicker. The rest of those kicks were just pretty average kicks indoors no less. There are plenty of the kickers in the league that I would be comfortable making those kicks and they're not getting paid $3 million to do it.

When the score is tied in the Super Bowl and the outcome of the game is dependant upon a field goal, that is not even close to a "pretty average kick."

Ask Indianapolis about average kicks indoors and see how they turn out sometimes, even with one of the best kickers in the league in Vanderjerk.

Or go back a bit further and see if Buffalo wished they had Vinatieri instead of Norwood.

We have an unusual commodity in that we have a good kicker who when the game is on the line becomes an exceptional kicker. The best in the league. Until he starts missing game-winners, he's worth every penny.

 

[fgssand]

You're misreading most of us. I don't think there is a single one of us who wouldn't love to see Vinatieri finish his career here. For over $3 million a season though? No thanks. 2001 was the only time Vinatieri had an out of this world kick. The kick in the Raiders game is stuff that legends are made of and that's the only reason everyone talks about him being a clutch kicker. The rest of those kicks were just pretty average kicks indoors no less. There are plenty of the kickers in the league that I would be comfortable making those kicks and they're not getting paid $3 million to do it.

I understand what you mean when he gets to 3MM or more per year it is steep. I am just saying that overpaying for AV is probably only 500M-750MM per year above and beyond what we would pay for a top kicker other than AV - it's not that much money to take the risk.

However, I think you will see a nice 3-4 year deal put together at 2MM - 2.25MM per year with a nice signing bonus and some of the contract guaranteed. Remember, endorsement opportuniy and hall of fame potential is in AV's best interest to stay here.