Greatest I am
Third String But Playing on Special Teams
- Joined
- May 31, 2013
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Said like a true gnostic, if there is such a thing But you're simply wrong about the traditional Jewish notion of Eden: The disobedience to God (eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), despite the clear hazard that God presents the mortals with, and despite many other mitigating factors, is still considered a sin. The story still answers questions like "why do we have to die?", "why do it hurt to give birth?" and "why I gotta work all the time?"
However, Christians use this and every other story in the Hebrew bible as a bulwark for the principle of salvation through belief in the man-god.
For a Jew hearing the story in David's time, it would be like "ohhhhhhh that makes sense, if you don't ask too many questions. Well, guess I'll go back to some more brow-sweaty work."
For a Christian using the story thousands of years later, it's like "This one thing right here done at the dawn of mankind makes you guilty from birth, so surprise - you need Jesus!" I mean, right there, from the get-go, before you even do anything, if you don't agree with these guys about your salvation, boom, hell.
I don't know how purveyors of "rugged individualism" also purvey the notion that a long-dead man-god has forgiven them their sins. Seems a bit off to me. I mean, I could see people who say "We're all in this together, let's help the poorest among us, etc." saying such a thing... they'd be admitting (really admitting) that they're as bad as the next guy and acting accordingly.
I just can't understand someone pointing at the "evil illegals," or "evil Muslims," or "evil anybody," if they in fact believe that they're bad from birth themselves.
I don't think many people really believe this, unless it is asked in a theological context - and even then, I think most take it as an opportunity to shout how saved they are and how you need to be saved too.
I'm interested to read up on some of the Jewish commentary on the expulsion from the garden. It seems like pretty fertile ground, no pun intended. That's another nice thing about Judaism: despite the names of the branches, there is no official orthodoxy. Even within the "Orthodox" they argue day and night about such things.
I wonder if there's an interpretation that it's more a "test" than a "sin." After all, they were right there with the trees. We have to assume that God hid himself from his own knowledge of the outcome, as in any theological cliff-hanger. Having done so, is he considering what is the best way for Man to be, by determining how vulnerable we are to temptation?
Is it as simple as "If you do it, meh, you should live this kind of life; if you don't do it, I'll be your "provider" forever"?
I wonder which if any of the commentators took this position.
I do not have much on the Jewish view of Eden but do see this as representative.
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/
Seems, orthodox or not, Jews think much better than Christians on this issue.
Not surprising that they chose to educate themselves instead of obeying a stupid command that says stay stupid and blind.
We all do as much as we can in seeking knowledge. The problem for unfortunate Christians is the perception of the terms knowledge and truth.
The idea of Jesus dying for us was created to produce a sense of indebtedness that the population is supposed to feel. Manipulation of the sheeple.
The idea of the fall was created to have people interpret the scripture in a way that makes them think that seeking knowledge is a sin. Manipulation of the sheeple.
This makes it easier for Christians to be pushed to become unthinking sheeple that can be easily manipulated, --- just as the re-writers of the bible and interpretation biased preachers want.
Christianity can thus profit from fear and indebtedness in this manner.
In the end, knowledge and truth are for our own enlightenment. Seeking untruth is a form of transgression and that is what priests and imams try to produce. Priests and imams are quite skilled in helping people lie to themselves.
Conditioning that some would call indoctrination or brainwashing when pushed to it's present extreme.
Regards
DL