Vinatieri 17th(kickers) on Patriots Internal Scouting Report

[IcyPatriot]

Like my Willie post...this again supposedly came from Mike Lynch on a news show. Anyone see this show(news)...please fill in with what you saw...Thanks.

That's really low...seems too low really...not sure if what i heard was true.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

It seems to low although we don't know things like hang time on kickoffs, etc, which could drastically affect coverage but not to our eyes. If it's true I'm sure there's some basis to it especially with Belichick passing up lots of FG last year. And I bet Ernie Adams is behind some of the research.

 

[IcyPatriot]

It seems to low although we don't know things like hang time on kickoffs, etc, which could drastically affect coverage but not to our eyes. If it's true I'm sure there's some basis to it especially with Belichick passing up lots of FG last year. And I bet Ernie Adams is behind some of the research.

Hopefully...someone here saw the show.

 

[Miguel]

Like my Willie post...this again supposedly came from Mike Lynch on a news show. Anyone see this show(news)...please fill in with what you saw...Thanks.

That's really low...seems too low really...not sure if what i heard was true.

And yet they were willing to make Adam the highest paid kicker in the league and contacted Adam the day he signed with the Colts. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[marty]

BB knows what stat's are worth. He'd be the first one to say that the intangibles will never show up on a stat sheet. That being said, I'm sure the Pats use stats frequently when scouting, drafting, negotiating, and overall personel decisions.

 

[Chris]

i dont buy this report one bit.. Holley was on EEI talking about it yesterday,... He was basically saying even if BB had a list like that he would never make it public.. ANd he couldnt even name 16 other better kickers..

 

[NE39]

I saw it. Lynch did say that.

He also brought up the Cornrich/Belichick connection and says it effected Adam's feellings on negotiations.

 

[Pats726]

I heard that, but...I just do not think it holds water. If the Pats leaked it..not smart at all. I am sure they have many ratings for kickers, but making it public?? Maybe it is in one category or?? A future projection..who knows at all!!

 

[Dank Franklin]

Who knows about the validity of a "list" like that, but personally I'm getting tired of all the fans and media out there that consider AV the BEST kicker in the league. He's NOT. Plain and simple. Granted, he's made some of the best clutch kicks in the history of the game, but he is NOT the best kicker in the league!

 

[Ring 6]

And yet they were willing to make Adam the highest paid kicker in the league and contacted Adam the day he signed with the Colts. Actions speak louder than words.

Miguel,
What is your opinion here?
Did AV want to leave? Did the Pats just get uotbid? Did they refuse to up the ante? Was that wrong?

I see that you are against the 20/20 hindsight bashing, which is admirable.
Im not sure though if you mean this as criticism of the Pats, of Vinatieri, of both or neither.

Not a challenge to your post, I'd really like to know your insight on this.

It is hard to reconcile not upping the offer when it may not have been much more needed.
My feeling is that the issue was in the signing bonus, and while the Pats were willing to make him the highest paid, they were uncomfortable committing as big a signing bonus fearful of decline during the deal. But you have better insight to these issues than me

 

[Miguel]

Miguel,
What is your opinion here?
Did AV want to leave?

Yes.

Did the Pats just get uotbid?
Did they refuse to up the ante?
Was that wrong?

Yes.
Yes.
What happens on the field will provide the most accurate answer.

I see that you are against the 20/20 hindsight bashing, which is admirable.
Im not sure though if you mean this as criticism of the Pats, of Vinatieri, of both or neither.

I happen to believe that in the Patriots' ideal offseason plan Adam would be on the Patriots' 2006 roster. If the reports are true that the Patriots gave Adam an offer that would make him the highest-paid kicker, then they must not have given their internal rankings that much weight.If the reports are true that the Patriots try to contact Adam yesterday, then they must not have given their internal rankings that much weight.

It is hard to reconcile not upping the offer when it may not have been much more needed.My feeling is that the issue was in the signing bonus, and while the Pats were willing to make him the highest paid, they were uncomfortable committing as big a signing bonus fearful of decline during the deal.

The Colts gave Adam a $3.5 million signing bonus. Let's presume that the Patriots' last offer actually had a signing bonus in it. How much less did Adam's signing bonus have to be to address the Patriots' concern?? The Pats have been willing to eat large amounts of dead money in the past (Bledsoe, Milloy, Law). Why not with Adam when the cap is so much larger??

I just happen to feel that this should have been an amicable divorce. I find it distasteful when there are whispers about a player after he is gone when if the player has signed with the Patriots there would be none. I do not think for a second that we would have heard about these internal rankings if Adam had resigned with the Patriots.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I see a trend in all of BB's "Business Dealings".

For every signing, resigning or renegotiating, he has a number (a budget if you will). That number is somewhat negotiable, but within reason. If a player takes the number, (Light, Bruschi, Vrabel, Brady, T Brown, Davis etc.) everything is fine.
If the player does not take the number (Law, Milloy, Willie, Andruzzi and now apparently Ashworth, Viniteri and Neal, etc.) then BB moves on to the next option.
Occasionally you hear of BB moving off his number. (He reportedly came back and upped the offer to Givens, but not the guaranteed dollars.)

Because BB doesn't disclose any of his business dealings, this strategy appears very cold and impersonnel to us fans and no doubt hurts the feelings of his players. But at the end of the day, his discpline will either make or break us in the long run.

 

[spacecrime]

And yet they were willing to make Adam the highest paid kicker in the league and contacted Adam the day he signed with the Colts. Actions speak louder than words.

I agree, but not the way you mean.

Polian paying AV big money is not action, it is merely another from of words. Paying money does not prove worth. Polian is merely putting his money where his mouth is, and showing us he believes his OPINION of AV.

Actions prove worth, sure.

BB going for it on fourth down instead of FG is action, I suppose, but it still doesn't prove worth (or lack), either. It just shows BB;s opinion.

ACTIONS are the deeds done and not done by AV, Longwell, AKers, etc etc that resulted in PK stats. And that leaves AV in hte middle of the pack.

I think the AV's 45-yarder in the snow is the best kick in the history of the NFL.

EVER.

I STILL can hardly believe it went through. It changed the team internally, changed their luck, if you will. They have been different ever since. Yeah, they'vde been different since Brady and BB and all, but that kick changed impressions, from choke team to clutch team. Not just clutch kicker or clutch QB, but clutch TEAM.

But AV still isn't worht 3.5 mill this year.

Let's not confuse past worth with current worth, else we sign Sammy Baugh to a 7 year contract.

 

[rookBoston]

BB doesn't pay for past performance, and he isn't sentimental. He doesn't buy into the media hype, and he's willing to make an unpopular call.

As Pats fans, we should be used to this, by now. After Slade, Eaton, Spires, Bledsoe, Milloy, Woody, Washington, Law... is there any doubt that everyone has their pricetag?

 

[Miguel]

Let's not confuse past worth with current worth, else we sign Sammy Baugh to a 7 year contract.

Trust me. I do not.

 

[Pats726]

To me....this whole internal deal leaking is just odd and not something I think the Patriots wished to get out in the public..I don't know..seems odd though...but without seeing it or knowing much..it just seems like a chance at a cheap shot.
I see a few things that may have helped...besides the money. Obviously the dome..something any kicker likes...but also the guaranteed money..and the fact it ties him to the team because of the salary cap to the Colts. I also wonder about his back..if that is more of an issue of concern. Not that it is, but potentially could be.
I also heard that the Colts deal was done in a way the Patriots could not match...I don't know it seemed he was hell bent on never coming back here...I wonder why??