UDFA''s

[patfanken]

I would opine that the reason SO many UDFA's have flourished here, regardless of if they were brought here from other organizations or if the FO initially brought them here; is because of the excellent teaching program that imbues this organization.

The fact is EVERYONE who makes a 53 man roster is an extraordinary athlete who,for the most part is at the peak of physical their potential. We don't mention it much, but the real reason the the Pats keep on winning is their coaching staff, who continually get the most out of the players who play for them, and are superb at developing players.

That's why players who leave here ever exceed their production they had here.

 

[kennyb]

All teams have udfas and some have great success. To what extent the pats are more or less successful than average I do not know.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

Having spent quite a few years as a cab driver, I'd drive a bunch of Downs Syndrome people about as part of an account. They are pretty much the nicest people you'll ever meet - loved having them in my car and was always a fun journey. I think they'd laugh at your pic.

You had the Manning account?

 

[Claremonster]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/djcamus/******edsuperman.jpg

jooperman?

 

[Brady6]

Agreed. But I wonder who the bastid is that sneaks in and makes the Round 2 picks?

In Belichick’s defense he did appear to make a concerted effort to make his “Huh” pick in the 3rd round this year..

 

[DocHoliday]

Not to poop on this parade, but the Patriots pretty consistently bring in quality UDFAs to begin with.

It's not because we're finding diamonds in the rough, it's because UDFAs pick out "Patriots" from their list of suitors. Post-Brady this might be more difficult.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Not to poop on this parade, but the Patriots pretty consistently bring in quality UDFAs to begin with.

It's not because we're finding diamonds in the rough, it's because UDFAs pick out "Patriots" from their list of suitors. Post-Brady this might be more difficult.

It is counterintuitive to think this because anUDFA might have a better chance of making a roster with lesser talent than one as loaded as the Pats.

 

[DocHoliday]

It is counterintuitive to think this because anUDFA might have a better chance of making a roster with lesser talent than one as loaded as the Pats.

This would be true if the Patriots were stacked all around. That's not really the case.

It's a top heavy team carried by Brady, a few key players, and starters that do their job. Match it with great coaching and you have a perennial playoff team.

In terms of pure talent I'd say the Pats are average really.

Look at the roster. The only positions a UDFA would think he has no shot at competing at is LB, QB, and CB (not for quality but in terms of recent draftees that they probably wouldn't displace). Appropriately these positions got few quality (if any) UDFAs.

Every other position has questionable depth. Even RB, which has two question marks behind Ridley and Vereen.

Agents know these things. It's why we picked up so many DT UDFAs. It's an open race there.

 

[Urgent]

A couple data points here:

Comparable performance:
We are familiar with our own record of udfa's making the roster, but less familiar with other teams' results. It would be interesting to see those results for comparison. If the stat below, one in five starters is originally undrafted, then it's not so rare.

Numbers:
It's not shocking that one or two udfa's make it each year, and it's easy to compare the performance of udfa's with second rounders. However, recognize that the Pats only need to go 1 or 2 for 20 to be successful with udfa's, and need to go 3 for 4 to be successful with second rounders. We can rattle off the names of the second rounders who have failed (or not - the list is getting long), but we cannot keep track of the multiple udfa's who pass through. Especially now that rosters were increased to 90 in the offseason while the salary cap has been flat.

 

[Jimke]

Not to poop on this parade, but the Patriots pretty consistently bring in quality UDFAs to begin with.

It's not because we're finding diamonds in the rough, it's because UDFAs pick out "Patriots" from their list of suitors. Post-Brady this might be more difficult.

According to Great Blue North, the Patriots brought in the #31 (Grissom),
#32 (Allen), #72 (Stankiewitch), #73 (Harrison), #83 (Sudfeld), #84
(White), and #94 (Kline) rated UDFAs. Moe was also highly rated but was
omitted from their list.

Where BB seems to go off the wall is when he ignores his own scouts and goes
by Urban Meyer's, Steve Belichick's and Josh McDaniel's brother's judgement.

 

[SacPete1]

Interesting topic and I would like to add that no team works the back end of the roster like BB. Although the standard roster size is 53, the patriots seem to have an additional 5-10 players available in the event of injury throughout the season. Also, a few pros of UDFA:
1.less cap impact
2.younger with potentially greater upside
3.may be more desperate from year to year and therefore their dedication is greater

this last point relates to a friend of mine who was an UDFA and played for the Eagles. He stuck around for 4-5 years but he's mentioned to me that he felt more so than the draft picks that his employment was 50/50 from year to year and this fear was the ultimate motivator.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Ken,

I refuse to accept the becoming conventional wisdom that BB sucks as a drafter.

The world is full of self-delusional drafniks who think they are much better than Beeichick is in stocking a team. He finds away, between veteran FA signings, new draftees, and a selection of collegiate UDFAs and marginal UDFAs who have a year or two of training with another club, so they are less raw.

I can't think of any other Coach who won while rebuilding his club, except Paul Brown after WW II. Even then everybody else was faced with assembling a team too.

The sainted Vince Lombardi inherited a team with ten years of #1 picks and merely re-organized the talent there, someimes moving players around, like Hornung etc. When the team got old, Vince milked it as long as possible then got out of town, leaving Bengston to face "le Deluge". Shula went to Miami after George Wilson had assembled a winner only to lose his QB for a season.

His winner there was already pre-crafted.

 

[Deus Irae]

Rather than getting accused of being a big meanie, I'll avoid the conversation generally.

I think, though, that a true measure of the BBUDFA era would require a list of all players and the positions they made it at, a look at how strong said positions were at the time, a look at how many of the UDFAs became starters (and why), and a look at how many went on to become true stars, because churning over the bottom of the roster with UDFAs instead of low round picks really isn't anything special.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Rather than getting accused of being a big meanie, I'll avoid the conversation generally.

I think, though, that a true measure of the BBUDFA era would require a list of all players and the positions they made it at, a look at how strong said positions were at the time, a look at how many of the UDFAs became starters (and why), and a look at how many went on to become true stars, because churning over the bottom of the roster with UDFAs instead of low round picks really isn't anything special.

What would that prove?

No, the proof of the pudding is in the only list that means anything. BB managed to assemble enough talent to consistently win. The list of continuous season records of 11+ plus wins every year and making a SB appearance, even during the re-building, is the ONLY list that matters.

 

[ausbacker]

Rather than getting accused of being a big meanie, I'll avoid the conversation generally.

I think, though, that a true measure of the BBUDFA era would require a list of all players and the positions they made it at, a look at how strong said positions were at the time, a look at how many of the UDFAs became starters (and why), and a look at how many went on to become true stars, because churning over the bottom of the roster with UDFAs instead of low round picks really isn't anything special.

Turning over the list from any position isn't special given the myriad of ways a football list is constructed. The goal is to fill your team with the best players possible in a manner accommodated by the salary cap.

 

[Deus Irae]

What would that prove?

No, the proof of the pudding is in the only list that means anything. BB managed to assemble enough talent to consistently win. The list of continuous season records of 11+ plus wins every year and making a SB appearance, even during the re-building, is the ONLY list that matters.

This thread is about UDFAs, not about SB appearances, so I don't really see what your point is, in context.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Rather than getting accused of being a big meanie, I'll avoid the conversation generally.

I think, though, that a true measure of the BBUDFA era would require a list of all players and the positions they made it at, a look at how strong said positions were at the time, a look at how many of the UDFAs became starters (and why), and a look at how many went on to become true stars, because churning over the bottom of the roster with UDFAs instead of low round picks really isn't anything special.

I agree to a point. I'm not sure how special it was that the Pats found a guy like Gary Guyton as an UDFA, when another team might have simply taken a comparable player in the 6th/7th round. Realistically, even though he started a number of games, Guyton's tenure was most notable for being an example of how bad the linebacker situation was for a few years. When you get a Stephen Neal or Ryan Wendell, on the other hand, that's definitely a big deal.

If an UDFA ends up being above replacement level, then accolades are absolutely in order. If he's basically a JAG who is a bit better than the sub-JAGs that he's competing against, then all that really says to me is that roster-building actually is a meritocracy to BB.

I also think it's important to acknowledge that it *should* be the case that fewer UDFAs make the Pats roster than the average team's, since the Pats are consistently good. Teams like the Browns should see more UDFAs on their roster purely because the bar isn't set very high. They're competing against worse players. Given how consistently good the Pats are and how much emphasis Belichick puts on depth, the 53rd spot on the Pats' roster is probably harder to earn than it is anywhere else.

 

[fnordcircle]

This thread is about UDFAs, not about SB appearances, so I don't really see what your point is, in context.

One might think that roster building and team success might be related, somehow.

 

[GIF Man]

Rather than getting accused of being a big meanie, I'll avoid the conversation generally.

I think, though, that a true measure of the BBUDFA era would require a list of all players and the positions they made it at, a look at how strong said positions were at the time, a look at how many of the UDFAs became starters (and why), and a look at how many went on to become true stars, because churning over the bottom of the roster with UDFAs instead of low round picks really isn't anything special.

 

[ATippett56]

I think, though, that a true measure of the BBUDFA era would require a list of all players and the positions they made it at, a look at how strong said positions were at the time, a look at how many of the UDFAs became starters (and why), and a look at how many went on to become true stars, because churning over the bottom of the roster with UDFAs instead of low round picks really isn't anything special.

With regard to undrafted free agents originally signed from the collegiate ranks and on the current New England Patriots roster, Ryan Wendell replaced Dan Koppen as the starting center for the New England Patriots offense. Ryan Wendell is the only starter that meets the aforementioned criteria.