Two-round Trade-apalooza

[MaineMan]

1. CAR - QB, Newton - Other needs: DT - Next picks: (no 2nd), #65
- Newton puts fannies in the seats, but maybe can also provide an imediate offensive spark.

2. DEN - OLB43, Miller - Other: DT, DE43, TE - Next: #36, #46, #67
- Can't pass on "impact" at a position of need, especialy with so much ammo for other needs later.

*TRADE* - SFO trades #7, #76, #115, and 2012 3rd to the Bills.
- CREDIT to KDPPatsfan 85 for this great idea. Bills missed Miller, so can trade down for more ammo to trade back in later.

3. SFO(h) - QB, Gabbert - Other: CB, OG/OC - Next: #45, #108
- Harbaugh lied about liking Smith. They jump ahead of Cinci here.

4. CIN - QB, Locker - Other: WR - Next: #35, #66
- They were desperate, but seem happy enough with Locker.

5. ARZ(h) - DE/OLB, Kerrigan - Other: QB, DT - Next #38, #69
- Covers two bases for their hybrid 34/43 scheme.

6. CLE - WR, Green - Other: DE43, CB - Next: #37, #70
- McCoy's 2010 leading receivers were Ben Watson and Peyton Hillis.

7. BUF(#)(from SFO) - OT, Castonzo - Other: OLB34 - Next: #34, #68, #76 (SFO)
- Sane choice, especially with Kerrigan gone.

*TRADE* - DET trades #13 and #75 to TEN

8. DET - OT, Tyron Smith - Other: CB, OC, 43LB - Next: #44, #107
- They go for the glam, trying to look smart. IOW, same old Lions.

9. DAL(#) - CB, Peterson - Other: OT, 34DE - Next: #40, #71
- Thanking SFO for their QB desperation.

*TRADE* - SDG trades #18, #61, #89 to WAS for #10 + #155

10. SDG(#) - 34DE, Watt - Other: WR, ILB - Next: #50, #82
- Somewhat unusual move for them, but they have the ammo to jump ahead of HOU & NE.

11. HOU(#) - CB, Amukamara - Other: NT, OT - Next: #42, #73

*TRADE* - JAX trades #16, #80 to MIN for #12

12. JAX - WR, Julio Jones - Other: QB?, CB, MLB? Next: #49, (no 3rd now)
- Jumping ahead of STL.

13. TEN (from DET) - QB, Kaepernick - Other: 43DE, 43LB - Next: #39, #75 (from DET), #77
- Desperation + no further likely trade partners = REACH

14. STL - DT, Fairley - Other: WR, OG, 43OLB, DB - Next: #47, #78
- Not buying the "bad attitude" rumor.

*TRADE* - TBY trades #20 + #51 to MIA for #15 + #79

15. TBY - 43DE, Jordan - Other: CB, RB - Next: (no 2nd), #79 (from MIA), #84
- Jumping ahead of Minny.

16. MIN - DT, Dareus - Other: QB?, 43DE, WR - Next: #43, #80 (from JAX)
- Refilling the Williams Wall and now have their 3rd back.

*TRADE* - Patriots trade #17 + #74 to IND for #22 + #53
- Possible risky move for the Pats to trade behind KC, but they have assurances (wink).

17. IND - OG/OC, Pouncey - Other: OT, DT, SS - Next: (no 2nd), #74, #87
- Jumping ahead of the Giants

18. WAS(#) (from SDG) - NT, Taylor - Other: 34DE, CB, 34LB, WR - Next: #41, #61(from SDG)
- REACH, but not as bad as it would have been at #10, plus they now have a 3rd.

19. NYG - OT, Carimi - Other: 43OLB - Next: #52, #83

20. MIA(#) - RB, Ingram - Other: QB? - Next: #51 (from TBY), (no 3rd)
- They get their RB plus a better chance at a QB.

21. KCY - WR, Hankerson - Other: NT, 34OLB, 34DE - Next: #55, #86
- Shock, but Cassel gets another target he won't have time to hit.

*TRADE* Patriots trade #22 to CHI for #29 + #93

22. CHI - OT, Solder - Other: DT, OC - Next: #62, (now no 3rd)
- Jumping ahead of PHL.

23. PHL - OT, Sherrod - Other: 43OLB, SS - Next: #54, #85, (two 4ths)

24. NOL - 43DE, Quinn - Other: DT? - Next: #56, #72, #88
- Middle of D-line is soft, but they try Quinn to fix their anemic pass-rush.

25. SEA - DT, Paea - Other: 43DE, RB, OG - Next: #57, (no 3rd)

26. BAL(#) - WR, Torrey Smith - Other: OC, CB, RB - Next: #58, #90
- Their only WR under the age of 30 that you've ever heard of.

27. ATL - TE, Rudolph - Other: WR - Next: #59, #91
- Hoping he's a fine Tony Gonzalez protegee.

## 28. Patriots - 34DE, Heyward
- This far, no further.

*TRADE* - Patriots trade #29 (from CHI) to BUF for #34 + #100

29. BUF - OLB34, Houston - Next: #68, #115

30. NYJ - 34OLB, Sheard - Other: NT, ILB - Next: (no 2nd), #94

31. PIT - NT, Ellis - Other: CB, 34DE, ILB - Next: #63, #95
- REACH, but their NTs are ancient and they get him before KC at #55.

32. GBY - 34DE, Wilkerson - Other: OT, OG, WR - Next: #64, #96

-------- ROUND TWO --------

*TRADE* - Patriots trade #33 to MIN for #43, #106, #172

33 MIN - QB, Ponder - Prev: DT, Dareus - Other: 43DE, WR - Next: #80(JAX), (no fourth)
## 34 Patriots - RB, Leshoure
35 CIN - RB, Williams - Prev: QB, Locker - Other: WR - Next: #66, #101
36 DEN - DT, Austin - Prev: OLB, Miller - Other: DE43, TE - Next: #46, #67
37 CLE - DE43, Aldon Smith --- CB, OG - Prev: WR, Green - Next: #70, #102
38 ARZ - QB, Dalton --- DT, OG - PrevE/OLB, Kerrigan - Next: #69, #103
39 TEN - 43LB, Martez Wilson --- DE43, - Prev: QB, Kaepernick - Next: #75(DET), #77
40 DAL - OT, Orland Franklin --- 34DE - Prev: CB, Peterson - Next: #71, #110
41 WAS - 34DE, Christian Ballard --- CB, 34LB, WR - Prev: NT, Taylor - Next: #61, #89
42 HOU - OT, James Brewer --- NT - Prev: CB, Amukamara - Next: #73, #105
## 43 Patriots - RT/OG, Carpenter
44 DET - CB, Jimmy Smith --- OC, 43LB - Prev: OT, Smith - Next: #107
45 SFO - CB, Brandon Harris --- OC/OG - Prev: QB, Gabbert - Next: #108
46 DEN - TE, Lance Hendricks --- DE43 - Prev: XXX - Next: #67, (no 4th or 5th)
47 STL - OG, Ijalana --- WR, 43OLB, DB - Prev: DT, Fairley - Next: #78, #112
48 OAK - OT, Marcus Cannon --- OC, TE, WR, DT, CB - NO PREV - Next: #81, #113
49 JAX - CB, Aaron Williams --- QB, MLB - Prev: WR, Jones - Next: (no 3rd), #114
50 SDG - WR, Jon Baldwin --- ILB - Prev: 34DE Watt - Next: #82, (no 4th)
51 MIA (TBY) - QB?, Mallett --- Prev: RB, Ingram - Next: (no 3rd), #111
52 NYG - OG/OC, Danny Watkins --- 43OLB - Prev: OT, Carimi - Next: #83, #115
## 53 Patriots (COLTS ) - CB/FS, Dowling
54 PHL - 43OLB, Bruce Carter --- SS - Prev: OT, Sherrod - Next: #85, #104, #120
55 KCY - 34OLB, Ayers --- NT, 34DE - Prev: WR, Hankerson - Next: #86, #118
56 NOL - DT, Liuget - Prev: DE, Quinn - Next: #72, #88, (no fourth)
57 SEA - RB, Vereen --- 43DE - Prev: DT, Paea - Next: (no 3rd), #99
58 BAL - 34DE, Jenkins --- OC, CB, RB - Prev: WR, Smith - Next: #90, #123
59 ATL - WR, Cobb - Prev: TE, Rudolph - Next: #91, #124
## 60 Patriots - OLB, Acho
61 WAS (SDG) - 34DE, Bailey --- CB, 34LB, WR - Prev:
62 CHI - DT, Jurrell Casey --- OC - Prev: OT, Solder - Next: (no 3rd), #127
63 PIT - OT, Marcus Gilbert -- CB, 34DE, ILB - Prev: NT, Ellis - Next: #95, #128
64 GBY - OG, Clint Boling --- WR, OT - Prev: 34DE, Wilkerson - Next: #96, #129

------- REMAINING PATS PICKS --------
92 - WR Austin Pettis
93 - plus #189 to DET for 2012 2nd
---
100 - OG/OC John Moffitt
106 - CB Cortez Allen
125 - FB Anthony Sherman
---
159 - RB Alex Green
172 - OC Brandon Fusco

 

[Dufflebagz]

Wow, looks like you put a lot of work into this. Not really a big fan of who you have us drafting but thanks for the interesting read

 

[serifyn]

3. things significantly hurt your theory.

1. a 14-2 team only has so much room for improvement, the patriots have drafted a significant number of player over the past 2 years, and without an offseason thus far, it will be difficult to gauge their progress since the end of last season, meaning they really have no idea who has made great strides since then, it would be more difficult to draft over these players as alot of them are still projects who dont really have alot of game experience, players like Price, Cunningham, Brace, Butler and Tate are all players who could play significantly better in 2012, but if you draft over them, you create a problem where if they come into camp with someone else who you just drafted at that position and both play well, you need to keep both or trim what you know is talent, furthermore drafting a player high means you pretty much reserve a spot on the roster for them, a similor thing happened to the jets last year and the patriots got danny woodhead because the jets had foolishly drafted and held onto the inferior joe Mcknight.

2. The 2011 Draft is the last official draft scheduled, there is a scenario where the draft is abolished altogether and the NFL goes into a system similor to baseballs with no salary cap and complete free agency. with all of thing trading down i suspect you are thinking the patriots will adopt their previous philosophy of trading into the next years draft, without assurances no one can make, any patriots close lose all of their future draft picks, which would be a devastating blow obviously.

3. Without a rookie salary structure (which is about the only thing the NFLPA and the NFL owners have been able to agree upon) the patriots can focus on drafting talent rather than draft position, it makes less sense to trade back into the second round if you see someone with talent and have the ammunition, you can go get them, the patriots certainly do this year.

 

[patfanken]

Wow, looks like you put a lot of work into this. Not really a big fan of who you have us drafting but thanks for the interesting read

Great effort. You have a vivid imagination and a great work ethic.....HOWEVER I question its logic. If you think BB is going to be totally passive and wait for the draft to drop to him all the while watching all the players who seem to fit best be aggressively taken by others,....then your 2 trade downs make sense. OK so far. Then you get too cute. You pick up your DE at 28, not my cup of tea, but there are those who like him, THEN when you have a chance at one of the better outside rushing prospects on the board (Houston, Sheard) you decide to get too greedy and trade again and get RB????????

So the Pats started the day with 3 picks in the top 33 and after all your machinations we wind up with a single pick LATE in round one and FOUR 2nd round picks Not the greatest idea in a thin draft for impact players.

You picked the Alabama OLman over Watkins (about a round and a half too high) and grabbed Acho as well about a round too high like you suddenly realized you hadn't addressed the pass rush issue and had to pick "some" OLB

So now we have 12 picks to absorb into a roster that is ALREADY very full of very young players. This might be a great draft for a team that is rebuilding, not for a team that is fine tuning for a series of championship runs

The way you've done it, we've traded Richard Seymour for two 2nd round picks 2 years down the road, which some thinking is like trading him for 2 3rd rounders

If you were going to end up with only one first round pick, wouldn't it had been better to trade the 17 and 28 to move up to #6 and be sure to get an IMPACT player of some kind???? Instead we get the last quality DE on the board and 4 players who would have gone in the 3rd and 4th round in any other draft...if not this one.

Congratulations you just made it easier on the rest of the league to sign half this draft after the Pats have to waive them at the end of training camp

Again, great effort, great imagination, but poor execution. I just wish you have give the pats some of that same wisdom you bestowed on the likes of SD et al all who made moves to get THEIR man, rather than just "settle" for who is left.

 

[MaineMan]

3. things significantly hurt your theory.

Theory? Didn't really have any "theory" in mind as I wrote this up. But, okay, I'll bite.

1. a 14-2 team only has so much room for improvement,

See, now, THAT'S what I'd call a "theory."

the patriots have drafted a significant number of player over the past 2 years, and without an offseason thus far, it will be difficult to gauge their progress since the end of last season, meaning they really have no idea who has made great strides since then,

Couldn't agree more.

it would be more difficult to draft over these players as alot of them are still projects who dont really have alot of game experience, players like Price, Cunningham, Brace, Butler and Tate are all players who could play significantly better in 2012,

Not sure where exactly I draft "over" any of the guys you list, except maybe Butler. But, we'll soldier on.

but if you draft over them, you create a problem where if they come into camp with someone else who you just drafted at that position and both play well, you need to keep both or trim what you know is talent,

Maybe I'm misreading this, but it appears that you're saying that having more talent on the 80-man camp roster than you can keep on the final 53-man roster is a BAD thing? Huh! Learn something new everyday, I guess.

furthermore drafting a player high means you pretty much reserve a spot on the roster for them, a similor thing happened to the jets last year and the patriots got danny woodhead because the jets had foolishly drafted and held onto the inferior joe Mcknight.

Not sure from the above where exactly your cutoff between drafting "high" and "not so high" is. McKnight was drafted in the mid-4th "over" UDFA Danny Woodhead. So, mid-4th and above is "high"? See, I was thinking that 1st and 2nd rounds were "high", 3rd and 4th "sorta middle" and after that "pretty low". In that regard, this mock drafts an RDE, OG/OT, RB, CB/FS and OLB "high". All of them are intended to either patch a hole or upgrade something that appears to need it (e.g., 2nd/3rd OLB spot, nickel-back). That also applies to most of the "middle" and "low" picks, although a couple are admittedly designed to provide competition for the bottom of the roster and the P/S guys.

Perhaps the JETS do reserve spots on their roster for higher picks, regardless of other circumstances. AFAIK, BB seems to go the other way - the guy who PLAYS better stays over the guy who doesn't, regardless of draft position. Could be why UDFA Dane Fletcher is on the roster and 3rd-rounder Tyrone McKenzie isn't, or why UDFA Arrington started over 2nd-rounder Butler. Also, isn't it fortunate that BB picked up UDFA Woodhead BEFORE Kevin Faulk got hurt, even though they have very similar skillsets.

2. The 2011 Draft is the last official draft scheduled, there is a scenario where the draft is abolished altogether and the NFL goes into a system similor to baseballs with no salary cap and complete free agency. with all of thing trading down i suspect you are thinking the patriots will adopt their previous philosophy of trading into the next years draft, without assurances no one can make, any patriots close lose all of their future draft picks, which would be a devastating blow obviously.

Actually, if you look closely (or maybe even not so closely), the only pick I'm risking a trade into 2012 with is an "extra" late 3rd-rounder (#93) which we (I) picked up in an earlier trade down. That's the ONLY trade into 2012 in this mock. If there's a draft in 2012, we've made out like bandits. If not, it's a very "middle pick" just like the #92 immediately adjacent and, as you imply, the Pats can only draft "so many" guys. It's very low-risk, high-reward, IMHO.

3. Without a rookie salary structure (which is about the only thing the NFLPA and the NFL owners have been able to agree upon) the patriots can focus on drafting talent rather than draft position, it makes less sense to trade back into the second round if you see someone with talent and have the ammunition, you can go get them, the patriots certainly do this year.

Really? You speak for the Pats and KNOW this to be true? And here I thought you were just "theorizing", much like everyone else here - and based on the same amount of hard information (or lack thereof). But, y'know, I will admit that I'm blind - I just don't see anyone worth trading up for in this draft, regardless how much ammo the Pats have (I mean, I don't usually fire my sidearm just because it's loaded. Well, sometimes.) See, I have this very odd idea that "talent" that doesn't appear to fit the scheme isn't worth as much as it might appear in terms of draft ammo. "Rookie salary structures" probably wouldn't be a consideration, considering how low the Pats' payroll likely is at this point.

Anyway, trading up for the sake of drafting a guy who is (according to free market forces) somehow intrinsically "more talented" strikes me as more ideological than practical. It's like insisting that I SHOULD ALWAYS blow my grocery budget on a pound of flilet - BECAUSE IT'S FILET - than to spend the same amount getting a 4lb pot roast, a sack of spuds and enough veggies for a week's worth of salads.

But, of course, all of this is highly "theoretical".

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Are you in one of the violent wards who aren't allowed to visit the garden?

 

[MaineMan]

Great effort. You have a vivid imagination and a great work ethic.....HOWEVER I question its logic. If you think BB is going to be totally passive and wait for the draft to drop to him all the while watching all the players who seem to fit best be aggressively taken by others,....then your 2 trade downs make sense. OK so far. Then you get too cute. You pick up your DE at 28, not my cup of tea, but there are those who like him, THEN when you have a chance at one of the better outside rushing prospects on the board (Houston, Sheard) you decide to get too greedy and trade again and get RB????????

So the Pats started the day with 3 picks in the top 33 and after all your machinations we wind up with a single pick LATE in round one and FOUR 2nd round picks Not the greatest idea in a thin draft for impact players.

You picked the Alabama OLman over Watkins (about a round and a half too high) and grabbed Acho as well about a round too high like you suddenly realized you hadn't addressed the pass rush issue and had to pick "some" OLB

So now we have 12 picks to absorb into a roster that is ALREADY very full of very young players. This might be a great draft for a team that is rebuilding, not for a team that is fine tuning for a series of championship runs

The way you've done it, we've traded Richard Seymour for two 2nd round picks 2 years down the road, which some thinking is like trading him for 2 3rd rounders

If you were going to end up with only one first round pick, wouldn't it had been better to trade the 17 and 28 to move up to #6 and be sure to get an IMPACT player of some kind???? Instead we get the last quality DE on the board and 4 players who would have gone in the 3rd and 4th round in any other draft...if not this one.

Congratulations you just made it easier on the rest of the league to sign half this draft after the Pats have to waive them at the end of training camp

Again, great effort, great imagination, but poor execution. I just wish you have give the pats some of that same wisdom you bestowed on the likes of SD et al all who made moves to get THEIR man, rather than just "settle" for who is left.

The odd thing is, those are the players that I WANT for the Pats and who (roughly) BB likely wants (IMHO). IOW, I didn't "wait" for anyone or trade down for the sake of trading down. I got the guys I targeted while I portrayed other teams trading up (and down) for guys who will "impact" their own situations, though not necessarily be the best for ours.

So, feel free to disagree with my selections. Just understand that they didn't happen at random somehow.

 

[MaineMan]

Are you in one of the violent wards who aren't allowed to visit the garden?

Actually, perennial gardening is my profession nowadays. In fact, I should be outside doing some right now.

 

[mcsully]

WOW.. What an interesting draft.. Locker going at #4 followed by Kerrigan..

& We don't address the pass rush!!

Take it the end game in your scenario isn't to win the SB.. hmm

 

[MaineMan]

WOW.. What an interesting draft.. Locker going at #4 followed by Kerrigan..

& We don't address the pass rush!!

Take it the end game in your scenario isn't to win the SB.. hmm

Winning the SB certainly is my endgame. But, then, we already know that you believe there's only one way to draft in order to make that happen and that I believe there are alternatives.

So, there we go!

 

[manxman2601]

1. CAR - QB, Newton - Other needs: DT - Next picks: (no 2nd), #65
- Newton puts fannies in the seats, but maybe can also provide an imediate offensive spark.

2. DEN - OLB43, Miller - Other: DT, DE43, TE - Next: #36, #46, #67
- Can't pass on "impact" at a position of need, especialy with so much ammo for other needs later.

*TRADE* - SFO trades #7, #76, #115, and 2012 3rd to the Bills.
- CREDIT to KDPPatsfan 85 for this great idea. Bills missed Miller, so can trade down for more ammo to trade back in later.

3. SFO(h) - QB, Gabbert - Other: CB, OG/OC - Next: #45, #108
- Harbaugh lied about liking Smith. They jump ahead of Cinci here.

4. CIN - QB, Locker - Other: WR - Next: #35, #66
- They were desperate, but seem happy enough with Locker.

5. ARZ(h) - DE/OLB, Kerrigan - Other: QB, DT - Next #38, #69
- Covers two bases for their hybrid 34/43 scheme.

6. CLE - WR, Green - Other: DE43, CB - Next: #37, #70
- McCoy's 2010 leading receivers were Ben Watson and Peyton Hillis.

7. BUF(#)(from SFO) - OT, Castonzo - Other: OLB34 - Next: #34, #68, #76 (SFO)
- Sane choice, especially with Kerrigan gone.

*TRADE* - DET trades #13 and #75 to TEN

8. DET - OT, Tyron Smith - Other: CB, OC, 43LB - Next: #44, #107
- They go for the glam, trying to look smart. IOW, same old Lions.

9. DAL(#) - CB, Peterson - Other: OT, 34DE - Next: #40, #71
- Thanking SFO for their QB desperation.

*TRADE* - SDG trades #18, #61, #89 to WAS for #10 + #155

10. SDG(#) - 34DE, Watt - Other: WR, ILB - Next: #50, #82
- Somewhat unusual move for them, but they have the ammo to jump ahead of HOU & NE.

11. HOU(#) - CB, Amukamara - Other: NT, OT - Next: #42, #73

*TRADE* - JAX trades #16, #80 to MIN for #12

12. JAX - WR, Julio Jones - Other: QB?, CB, MLB? Next: #49, (no 3rd now)
- Jumping ahead of STL.

13. TEN (from DET) - QB, Kaepernick - Other: 43DE, 43LB - Next: #39, #75 (from DET), #77
- Desperation + no further likely trade partners = REACH

14. STL - DT, Fairley - Other: WR, OG, 43OLB, DB - Next: #47, #78
- Not buying the "bad attitude" rumor.

*TRADE* - TBY trades #20 + #51 to MIA for #15 + #79

15. TBY - 43DE, Jordan - Other: CB, RB - Next: (no 2nd), #79 (from MIA), #84
- Jumping ahead of Minny.

16. MIN - DT, Dareus - Other: QB?, 43DE, WR - Next: #43, #80 (from JAX)
- Refilling the Williams Wall and now have their 3rd back.

*TRADE* - Patriots trade #17 + #74 to IND for #22 + #53
- Possible risky move for the Pats to trade behind KC, but they have assurances (wink).

17. IND - OG/OC, Pouncey - Other: OT, DT, SS - Next: (no 2nd), #74, #87
- Jumping ahead of the Giants

18. WAS(#) (from SDG) - NT, Taylor - Other: 34DE, CB, 34LB, WR - Next: #41, #61(from SDG)
- REACH, but not as bad as it would have been at #10, plus they now have a 3rd.

19. NYG - OT, Carimi - Other: 43OLB - Next: #52, #83

20. MIA(#) - RB, Ingram - Other: QB? - Next: #51 (from TBY), (no 3rd)
- They get their RB plus a better chance at a QB.

21. KCY - WR, Hankerson - Other: NT, 34OLB, 34DE - Next: #55, #86
- Shock, but Cassel gets another target he won't have time to hit.

*TRADE* Patriots trade #22 to CHI for #29 + #93

22. CHI - OT, Solder - Other: DT, OC - Next: #62, (now no 3rd)
- Jumping ahead of PHL.

23. PHL - OT, Sherrod - Other: 43OLB, SS - Next: #54, #85, (two 4ths)

24. NOL - 43DE, Quinn - Other: DT? - Next: #56, #72, #88
- Middle of D-line is soft, but they try Quinn to fix their anemic pass-rush.

25. SEA - DT, Paea - Other: 43DE, RB, OG - Next: #57, (no 3rd)

26. BAL(#) - WR, Torrey Smith - Other: OC, CB, RB - Next: #58, #90
- Their only WR under the age of 30 that you've ever heard of.

27. ATL - TE, Rudolph - Other: WR - Next: #59, #91
- Hoping he's a fine Tony Gonzalez protegee.

## 28. Patriots - 34DE, Heyward
- This far, no further.

*TRADE* - Patriots trade #29 (from CHI) to BUF for #34 + #100

29. BUF - OLB34, Houston - Next: #68, #115

30. NYJ - 34OLB, Sheard - Other: NT, ILB - Next: (no 2nd), #94

31. PIT - NT, Ellis - Other: CB, 34DE, ILB - Next: #63, #95
- REACH, but their NTs are ancient and they get him before KC at #55.

32. GBY - 34DE, Wilkerson - Other: OT, OG, WR - Next: #64, #96

-------- ROUND TWO --------

*TRADE* - Patriots trade #33 to MIN for #43, #106, #172

33 MIN - QB, Ponder - Prev: DT, Dareus - Other: 43DE, WR - Next: #80(JAX), (no fourth)
## 34 Patriots - RB, Leshoure
35 CIN - RB, Williams - Prev: QB, Locker - Other: WR - Next: #66, #101
36 DEN - DT, Austin - Prev: OLB, Miller - Other: DE43, TE - Next: #46, #67
37 CLE - DE43, Aldon Smith --- CB, OG - Prev: WR, Green - Next: #70, #102
38 ARZ - QB, Dalton --- DT, OG - PrevE/OLB, Kerrigan - Next: #69, #103
39 TEN - 43LB, Martez Wilson --- DE43, - Prev: QB, Kaepernick - Next: #75(DET), #77
40 DAL - OT, Orland Franklin --- 34DE - Prev: CB, Peterson - Next: #71, #110
41 WAS - 34DE, Christian Ballard --- CB, 34LB, WR - Prev: NT, Taylor - Next: #61, #89
42 HOU - OT, James Brewer --- NT - Prev: CB, Amukamara - Next: #73, #105
## 43 Patriots - RT/OG, Carpenter
44 DET - CB, Jimmy Smith --- OC, 43LB - Prev: OT, Smith - Next: #107
45 SFO - CB, Brandon Harris --- OC/OG - Prev: QB, Gabbert - Next: #108
46 DEN - TE, Lance Hendricks --- DE43 - Prev: XXX - Next: #67, (no 4th or 5th)
47 STL - OG, Ijalana --- WR, 43OLB, DB - Prev: DT, Fairley - Next: #78, #112
48 OAK - OT, Marcus Cannon --- OC, TE, WR, DT, CB - NO PREV - Next: #81, #113
49 JAX - CB, Aaron Williams --- QB, MLB - Prev: WR, Jones - Next: (no 3rd), #114
50 SDG - WR, Jon Baldwin --- ILB - Prev: 34DE Watt - Next: #82, (no 4th)
51 MIA (TBY) - QB?, Mallett --- Prev: RB, Ingram - Next: (no 3rd), #111
52 NYG - OG/OC, Danny Watkins --- 43OLB - Prev: OT, Carimi - Next: #83, #115
## 53 Patriots (COLTS ) - CB/FS, Dowling
54 PHL - 43OLB, Bruce Carter --- SS - Prev: OT, Sherrod - Next: #85, #104, #120
55 KCY - 34OLB, Ayers --- NT, 34DE - Prev: WR, Hankerson - Next: #86, #118
56 NOL - DT, Liuget - Prev: DE, Quinn - Next: #72, #88, (no fourth)
57 SEA - RB, Vereen --- 43DE - Prev: DT, Paea - Next: (no 3rd), #99
58 BAL - 34DE, Jenkins --- OC, CB, RB - Prev: WR, Smith - Next: #90, #123
59 ATL - WR, Cobb - Prev: TE, Rudolph - Next: #91, #124
## 60 Patriots - OLB, Acho
61 WAS (SDG) - 34DE, Bailey --- CB, 34LB, WR - Prev:
62 CHI - DT, Jurrell Casey --- OC - Prev: OT, Solder - Next: (no 3rd), #127
63 PIT - OT, Marcus Gilbert -- CB, 34DE, ILB - Prev: NT, Ellis - Next: #95, #128
64 GBY - OG, Clint Boling --- WR, OT - Prev: 34DE, Wilkerson - Next: #96, #129

------- REMAINING PATS PICKS --------
92 - WR Austin Pettis
93 - plus #189 to DET for 2012 2nd
---
100 - OG/OC John Moffitt
106 - CB Cortez Allen
125 - FB Anthony Sherman
---
159 - RB Alex Green
172 - OC Brandon Fusco

As I'm currently in the process of doing my own mock atm, I'd appreciate your thoughts on why you drafted some of your picks as high (or low as you did).

1. Jake Locker @4 - The consensus seems to be that he's slipping right now, and whilst the Bungals might be aptly named, with a high second rounder, might it make more sense to wait until then (or trade up from there for a second first round pick). They're passing up a lot of talent to draft a college passer with less than 60% comp. % at 4 overall.

2. I'd argue Arizona taking Kerrigan over Quinn @5, but I'm a big Kerrigan fan and could see why a team like the Cards might be too.

3. You have Detroit trading up above Dallas but then not picking Patrick Peterson. Isn't CB a bigger need for the Lions than LT

4. You have Dareus falling to 16. I'd be amazed if a 3-4 team doesn't trade up to grab him before then.

5. Kaepernick mid first, Hankerson mid to late first and Costanzo at 7 are at variance to most mocks out there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly critical of this mock, I admire anyone who does one and is prepared to put it up to public critique, but I'd love to get your reasoning behind some of those picks.

 

[Water Boy]

Dareus falls to 16???

 

[patsfanboy]

First of all, if we trade down, it will be for a high pick for next draft or future draft, not for this one, and without a new CBA, trading up still implies the old rules, so no Rookie Salary cap.

I think you nailed the buffalo trade, they won't take a qb, well last year i never imaged them picking up C.J Spiller, but i think they like him for now. Cam or Blaine are worthy of a top 10 so i can see the 49rs, Titans, Washington trying to get ahead of the Cardinals to get either guy.

Locker is not a top 10, i like him tho.

I also think that the Charges, will trade up to get their guy, the always done it and i won't be surprised if they took Watt.

Kerrigan is not a top 10.

Tyron Smith is better than Castonzo plus they will take a DE.

If they Lions trade up, they will try to get Perterson not Tyron Smith.

Kaepernick is not a 1sr rounder.

Fairley is a top 10.

Miami trade makes sense they don't have a second rounder.

You just trade us down with Quin and Aldon in the board, why are they still on the board?

 

[MaineMan]

Good questions.

As I'm currently in the process of doing my own mock atm, I'd appreciate your thoughts on why you drafted some of your picks as high (or low as you did).

1. Jake Locker @4 - The consensus seems to be that he's slipping right now, and whilst the Bungals might be aptly named, with a high second rounder, might it make more sense to wait until then (or trade up from there for a second first round pick). They're passing up a lot of talent to draft a college passer with less than 60% comp. % at 4 overall.

In all honesty, I might as well have put "Rufus Placeholder" there instead of Locker. I'm convinced that Palmer is gone and that CIN will draft a QB in that spot with Gabbert being (at this point, subject to change without much notice) one of the consensus top two. Basically, this was a mechanism to demonstrate that the Niners believe the same about Cinci and would be willing to trade UP to get Gabbert, leaving the #3 to Cinci. Really, the same applies to TEN taking Kaepernick. The point is they take a QB. WHO they actually take is fairly irrelevant to me.

2. I'd argue Arizona taking Kerrigan over Quinn @5, but I'm a big Kerrigan fan and could see why a team like the Cards might be too.

Realistically, this could go either way, I guess. They probably both fit as well as the other. I'm guessing that Whisenhunt's seat may start getting warm about halfway through this season, no matter what he does in this draft. Kerrigan seems the "safer" pick, but Whisenhunt could well decide to go all-in for Quinn's higher potential (IMO) to boom or bust.

3. You have Detroit trading up above Dallas but then not picking Patrick Peterson. Isn't CB a bigger need for the Lions than LT.

Well, this is based on 40 years of living in Detroit and being a "close observer" (can't bring myself to say, f-f-f-aaa.... Nope. still can't do it.) of how the Lions' FO typically operates. No, the insanity that led to 0-16 was definitely NOT all Millen's doing. My assumptions here are (1) they've finally realized that maybe they need an OT (now that Backus is 33); (2) they're in love with Tyron Smith's chiseled countenance and athleticism (looks good to the fans); (3) they're very concerned that he's Dallas' target, and (4) they're never going to admit that Alphonso Smith was a bust BEFORE they acquired him from McDaniels. Ergo, a gratuitous trade up with not very much ammo. Yup. Exactly the kind of stupid thing they've been doing for decades.

4. You have Dareus falling to 16. I'd be amazed if a 3-4 team doesn't trade up to grab him before then.

Well, it's possible, I suppose, that Dareus could be substituted as SDG's target at #10. After that point, though, the Minny trade-down scenario is still plausible (perhaps even more plausible). TBY trading up ahead of Minny at #16 still works, though. And Minny could still accept Watt as an Edwards-replacement bookend for Jared Allen and look for their DT later. T'would probably complicate their later trade up to #33 with the Pats, though. Minny could snag Phil Taylor away from the Skins, I suppose, leaving Watt to fall to the Pats at #17. Not sure what I'd do as the Pats at that point. Take Watt and the Skins probably take Heyward. Make the trade as written and the Skins probably take Watt. Either way, I still like Heyward for the Pats just slightly better than I do Watt (and, obviously, just slightly better than I do Wilkerson).

5. Kaepernick mid first, Hankerson mid to late first and Costanzo at 7 are at variance to most mocks out there.

Hankerson simply reflects my view that he's the 3rd best WR. I believe he has a higher floor than the guys who are now being hyped ahead of him and probably nearly as high a ceiling. It also reflects my view that, even though Cassel isn't an elite QB, it didn't help him at all that he didn't have many targets who could reliably get open and catch the damn ball. Admittedly, it would seem more rational for KC to go defense - perhaps Quinn (or Kerrigan, if we make the Quinn for Kerrigan swap above). But, Crennel's defense was pretty decent last season, whereas the passing game struggled. Keeping in mind who their HC is and that there are human factors and ego factors and "fannies in the seats" factors involved for the decision makers (IOW stuff that has nothing to do with actual "football"), something like this is not as far outside the realm of possibility as I'm sure most analysts would think. That said, KC could just as easily go Torrey Smith here.

WRT Castonzo, I've seen him ranked in the top two OTs with Smith more often than I've seen the other three (Solder, Sherrod, Carimi). I'm just guessing at Nix and Gailey's preference.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly critical of this mock, I admire anyone who does one and is prepared to put it up to public critique, but I'd love to get your reasoning behind some of those picks.

Not at all. I appreciate the honest curiosity. It's refreshing to be able to calmly discuss my reasoning (or lack thereof) behind individual choices rather than simply being told that I suck because I don't have the Pats trading up to "take an impact player" (IOW, "balls out pass-rushing OLB") or being lectured on how the draft "really works" by folks who state things with the certainty of God on their side as if I'm a drooling three-year-old. I mean, I admit that I occasionally overmedicate and get to that state sometimes, but this wasn't such an instance.

 

[MaineMan]

First of all, if we trade down, it will be for a high pick for next draft or future draft, not for this one, and without a new CBA, trading up still implies the old rules, so no Rookie Salary cap.

I think you nailed the buffalo trade, they won't take a qb, well last year i never imaged them picking up C.J Spiller, but i think they like him for now. Cam or Blaine are worthy of a top 10 so i can see the 49rs, Titans, Washington trying to get ahead of the Cardinals to get either guy.

Locker is not a top 10, i like him tho.

I also think that the Charges, will trade up to get their guy, the always done it and i won't be surprised if they took Watt.

Kerrigan is not a top 10.

Tyron Smith is better than Castonzo plus they will take a DE.

If they Lions trade up, they will try to get Perterson not Tyron Smith.

Kaepernick is not a 1sr rounder.

Fairley is a top 10.

Miami trade makes sense they don't have a second rounder.

You just trade us down with Quin and Aldon in the board, why are they still on the board?

I respectfully disagree with you about trading a high pick this year for a high pick next year with a chance there's no draft at all (in the words of **** Cheney, "If there's even a 1% chance..."). That's why I limited my trading into 2012 to the one extra 3rd rounder for a future 2nd. Good win if there's a draft; no huge loss if there's not.

I covered most of the rest of your questions in my response to "manxman". Sorry to refer you to that post, but dinner's ready.

Lastly, WRT Quinn and Aldon Smith, I simply don't like them for the Pats for various reasons of my own.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Tyron Smith is better than Castonzo plus they will take a DE.

I'm not so sure how everyone came to the conclusion that T Smith is better than A Constanza? Smith wasn't even the best lineman on his own team. Is it because of the chiseled body he suddenly developed over the last 4 or 5 months on his so called USC diet?Players gaining 25, 35 pounds of muscle over that time span seem a very common theme at USC. Dissapointing he couldn't make it through his workouts at the combine. He's got teflon written all over him and i personally think he is one of the players I most suspect to bust out of the 1st rd.

Also apparently he is just not as high on Quinn Or A Smith as others like yourself are. I like them both fine. I like Quinn quite a bit though.

 

[Off The Grid]

Theory? Didn't really have any "theory" in mind as I wrote this up. But, okay, I'll bite.



See, now, THAT'S what I'd call a "theory."



Couldn't agree more.



Not sure where exactly I draft "over" any of the guys you list, except maybe Butler. But, we'll soldier on.



Maybe I'm misreading this, but it appears that you're saying that having more talent on the 80-man camp roster than you can keep on the final 53-man roster is a BAD thing? Huh! Learn something new everyday, I guess.



Not sure from the above where exactly your cutoff between drafting "high" and "not so high" is. McKnight was drafted in the mid-4th "over" UDFA Danny Woodhead. So, mid-4th and above is "high"? See, I was thinking that 1st and 2nd rounds were "high", 3rd and 4th "sorta middle" and after that "pretty low". In that regard, this mock drafts an RDE, OG/OT, RB, CB/FS and OLB "high". All of them are intended to either patch a hole or upgrade something that appears to need it (e.g., 2nd/3rd OLB spot, nickel-back). That also applies to most of the "middle" and "low" picks, although a couple are admittedly designed to provide competition for the bottom of the roster and the P/S guys.

Perhaps the JETS do reserve spots on their roster for higher picks, regardless of other circumstances. AFAIK, BB seems to go the other way - the guy who PLAYS better stays over the guy who doesn't, regardless of draft position. Could be why UDFA Dane Fletcher is on the roster and 3rd-rounder Tyrone McKenzie isn't, or why UDFA Arrington started over 2nd-rounder Butler. Also, isn't it fortunate that BB picked up UDFA Woodhead BEFORE Kevin Faulk got hurt, even though they have very similar skillsets.



Actually, if you look closely (or maybe even not so closely), the only pick I'm risking a trade into 2012 with is an "extra" late 3rd-rounder (#93) which we (I) picked up in an earlier trade down. That's the ONLY trade into 2012 in this mock. If there's a draft in 2012, we've made out like bandits. If not, it's a very "middle pick" just like the #92 immediately adjacent and, as you imply, the Pats can only draft "so many" guys. It's very low-risk, high-reward, IMHO.



Really? You speak for the Pats and KNOW this to be true? And here I thought you were just "theorizing", much like everyone else here - and based on the same amount of hard information (or lack thereof). But, y'know, I will admit that I'm blind - I just don't see anyone worth trading up for in this draft, regardless how much ammo the Pats have (I mean, I don't usually fire my sidearm just because it's loaded. Well, sometimes.) See, I have this very odd idea that "talent" that doesn't appear to fit the scheme isn't worth as much as it might appear in terms of draft ammo. "Rookie salary structures" probably wouldn't be a consideration, considering how low the Pats' payroll likely is at this point.

Anyway, trading up for the sake of drafting a guy who is (according to free market forces) somehow intrinsically "more talented" strikes me as more ideological than practical. It's like insisting that I SHOULD ALWAYS blow my grocery budget on a pound of flilet - BECAUSE IT'S FILET - than to spend the same amount getting a 4lb pot roast, a sack of spuds and enough veggies for a week's worth of salads.

But, of course, all of this is highly "theoretical".

Truly an exquisite piece of work, Brother Maine!!

 

[mgteich]

I'm generally fine with our picks. I love the trade with Indy. I would have drafted Heyward at 22. You can have the extra 93. So, I then you trade 28 to Chicago instead of 29.

So, HEYWARD, LESHOURE (or whoever at RB) CARPENTER, DOWLING
That's a pretty good haul with a pick still to come at 60. I wouldn't draft ACHO, but rather BOLING or GILBERT or WEISNEWSKI at 60. Our line could use 2 picks in the first 64.
=========================================
A) OK, so Dareus and A. Smith must have broken their legs when I wasn't paying attention.
It is one thing to think that GM's would be move Quinn and Bowers way down. It is quite another to move down these two.

B) 4 LOCKER ??????? huge reach
If CInci wants Locker, they would simply trade down.

C) 5 KERRIGAN ????? huge reach

D) 13 KAEPERNICK I can only guess that he is your brother-in-law.

 

[Off The Grid]

It's refreshing to be able to calmly discuss my reasoning (or lack thereof) behind individual choices rather than simply being told that I suck because I don't have the Pats trading up to "take an impact player" (IOW, "balls out pass-rushing OLB") or being lectured on how the draft "really works" by folks who state things with the certainty of God on their side as if I'm a drooling three-year-old. I mean, I admit that I occasionally overmedicate and get to that state sometimes, but this wasn't such an instance.

HAH!! You're in FINE form, today, Brother Maine!!

 

[MaineMan]

I'm generally fine with our picks. I love the trade with Indy. I would have drafted Heyward at 22. You can have the extra 93. So, I then you trade 28 to Chicago instead of 29.

So, HEYWARD, LESHOURE (or whoever at RB) CARPENTER, DOWLING
That's a pretty good haul with a pick still to come at 60. I wouldn't draft ACHO, but rather BOLING or GILBERT or WEISNEWSKI at 60. Our line could use 2 picks in the first 64.
=========================================
A) OK, so Dareus and A. Smith must have broken their legs when I wasn't paying attention.
It is one thing to think that GM's would be move Quinn and Bowers way down. It is quite another to move down these two.

B) 4 LOCKER ??????? huge reach
If CInci wants Locker, they would simply trade down.

C) 5 KERRIGAN ????? huge reach

D) 13 KAEPERNICK I can only guess that he is your brother-in-law.

Thanks for the compliments on the Pats selections. I mean, I have alternates that I like better at times (Sundays, Tuesdays and alternate Thurdays), but this is just presenting a "different" scenario for how we might end up achieving some of them.

WRT D), Kaepernick is actually my 3rd cousin, twice removed on my mother's side.

WRT the others, no disrespect intended by referring you to my explanations to "manxman", but dessert is being served - cake - with extra frosting. Really gotta go.