PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Training Camp Day 12 - Wednesday August 6 - Joint practice controlled scrimmage versus Washington Commanders.

[Love The Drake]

He was. Depends on what you consider feature.. he had 1,000 all purpose yards.. in 2010 sounds like a feature back to me..

I loved Woodhead, was bummed we wouldn’t match that 2 mill a year the Chargers offered.

He wanted to stay here too based on accounts.

 

[Real fan 02]

I loved Woodhead, was bummed we wouldn’t match that 2 mill a year the Chargers offered.

He wanted to stay here too based on accounts.

Yes I remember. Danny dealt with some injuries after he left here right? Didn't he come back??

 

[Mike the Brit]

I think Edelman is a good example. Out of people with skill sets equal to his very few end up on an NFL roster. That is skillset minus the brain and the drive and effort.

The funny thing is that, for the people we're talking about you can more or less take this for granted. Edelman, Welker -- you can add Olszewski or the Ventrones -- were obviously great athletes by the standards of the average high school, but even in college they didn't stand out. So to get as far as they did even pre-draft they already had brain and drive and effort. The trouble is that that isn't going to get you a successful NFL career except for a few positions (slot receiver, punt returner, special teams, maybe slot corner or safety).

Which is why, I imagine, there a lot of Efton Chisms competing for a very few places.

 

[Real fan 02]

The funny thing is that, for the people we're talking about you can more or less take this for granted. Edelman, Welker -- you can add Olszewski or the Ventrones -- were obviously great athletes by the standards of the average high school, but even in college they didn't stand out. So to get as far as they did even pre-draft they already had brain and drive and effort. The trouble is that that isn't going to get you a successful NFL career except for a few positions (slot receiver, punt returner, special teams, maybe slot corner or safety).

Which is why, I imagine, there a lot of Efton Chisms competing for a very few places.

Agreed. I said this months ago. We need to sign another CB.. rasual Douglas is out there all off season.. gonzo will be dealing with that hammy all season, Davis is injury prone.. dial went down... we need another veteran CB.

 

[Wozzy]

I think the common denominator here is Ellis's career: 6 different signings since entering the league in 2021. Vikings, Eagles, Niners, Eagles again in extremely small usage, released every time.

I'm hoping he's just very picky and this place is the perfect fit because all of those teams have solid organizations that grow and develop defensive personnel quite well.

It’s not unusual for UDFA’s to bounce around before they eventually settle in somewhere and get an opportunity they’re ready for.

Draft status means nothing once a prospect enters the league. That never determines whether a player is good or not. A third of the NFL is made up of UDFA’s.

 

[mikey m]

Agree. WRs not good enough to draft but have some skills and potential are all over the place. Chism is not really different than any of the others.
Just to be in an NFL camp you have to have the ability to make plays.
Sometimes it seems like people believe a guy who shouldn’t make a team is incapable of making a play. We see it all the time. Baker makes a TD catch in practice and suddenly he gets it, his stock is rising, he’s gonna make the team. He wouldn’t be here if he couldn’t do that. It’s doing it consistently. It’s not the ability to make a play, they all have that, it’s the flaws that keep them off a roster.
That’s why the preseason hero’s who make 3-4 catches against future physical ed teachers get cut and don’t get signed by another team.

As you often say Ken you have to be a damn good football player to be in a 90 man roster, but you have to be the best of the best to be on the field.

As far as Chism, he will earn it not earn a job on special teams. He has a real opportunity to show he can be a good return man and also cover kicks and play on all the special teams. His WR career is based upon a unique and less than ideal set of skills and those won’t get him in a roster, but getting on a roster through special teams and then getting an opportunity to carve out a wr role is his path.

I think Edelman is a good example. Out of people with skill sets equal to his very few end up on an NFL roster. That is skillset minus the brain and the drive and effort.
It took Edelman making the team as a special teams player to use his brain, drive and motor to carve out a WR role. The odds when he showed up for his 1st camp that he would become a starting WR and an integral piece if a SB champ at WR were minuscule. But Edelman seized the opportunity he wouldn’t have gotten if he didn’t make the team on special teams.

Bingo. Baker strikes me as a guy who will never have the consistency unfortunately. Hope he proves me dead wrong because he obviously has the physical traits of a good receiver.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Agree. WRs not good enough to draft but have some skills and potential are all over the place. Chism is not really different than any of the others.
Just to be in an NFL camp you have to have the ability to make plays.
Sometimes it seems like people believe a guy who shouldn’t make a team is incapable of making a play. We see it all the time. Baker makes a TD catch in practice and suddenly he gets it, his stock is rising, he’s gonna make the team. He wouldn’t be here if he couldn’t do that. It’s doing it consistently. It’s not the ability to make a play, they all have that, it’s the flaws that keep them off a roster.
That’s why the preseason hero’s who make 3-4 catches against future physical ed teachers get cut and don’t get signed by another team.

As you often say Ken you have to be a damn good football player to be in a 90 man roster, but you have to be the best of the best to be on the field.

As far as Chism, he will earn it not earn a job on special teams. He has a real opportunity to show he can be a good return man and also cover kicks and play on all the special teams. His WR career is based upon a unique and less than ideal set of skills and those won’t get him in a roster, but getting on a roster through special teams and then getting an opportunity to carve out a wr role is his path.

I think Edelman is a good example. Out of people with skill sets equal to his very few end up on an NFL roster. That is skillset minus the brain and the drive and effort.
It took Edelman making the team as a special teams player to use his brain, drive and motor to carve out a WR role. The odds when he showed up for his 1st camp that he would become a starting WR and an integral piece if a SB champ at WR were minuscule. But Edelman seized the opportunity he wouldn’t have gotten if he didn’t make the team on special teams.

Your points are valid, and I'm sure Chism supporters understand the odds, I know I certainly do.
I have said at every turn, IF Chism stands out in camp and makes noticeable plays in pre-season. Nothing has changed, that's how I feel.
Wether those plays are on special teams, or offense, he needs to standout, I've said that multiple times.
Remember the BB Wally Pipp comment? That came on an Edleman return during the pre-season. He made a noticeable play and made the team, and eventually carved out a WR role. If I were to guess, Jules return was probably against future UPS drivers, Phys Ed teachers, maybe even Subway sandwich artists.
Chism can most certainly do the same, he's starting out as a far more accomplished WR than Jules was coming out of college as an option QB.
So you think he can make the PS no problem, and if he has a quiet pre-season that's probably the case. But if he makes some noticeable plays, like Jule's punt return in 2009 pre-season, I don't think we can sneak him through waivers.

 

[captain stone]

and 6.5M is way too much to pay a LB that according to Ring6 sucks at every aspect of LBing. Not sure why Ring has the hate on for him.

No hate really; the dude's just not very good. He's definitely the worst of the Ellis bros that's for sure.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Additionally, we all know how important the slot WR is in McDs offense.
When we had Jules, we also had Danny
When we had Welker, we also had Jules.
That could provide additional value for Chism, as we know Pop is smaller and has had some injuries.
Heaven forbid Pop goes down, do we run Williams/Diggs out of the slot? It's possible, or do we want a dedicated slot backup?

 

[captain stone]

He works hard. Vrabel and Ninko were NOT STALLIONS when we got them....how did they turn out?
I don't even pay attention to him anymore, been down that road.

Vrabel was indeed a stallion when he arrived here. ****tsdirt's defense just didn't have many snaps to give him because their own 3-4 OLBs were so good.

 

[captain stone]

Ya, not buying that. The Raiders and Pats don't offer a guy $13.5 over 2 years to be a special teams/role player. The highest paid special teamer (Turpin) makes $6M a year. Doesn't matter how much cap space we (and the Raiders) had, you don't overpay just because you have money.

Well the Pats & Faiduhs are two of the stupidest organizations in football, so maybe they do...

 

[captain stone]

Speaking of high motor not equating to success, it's disappointing to see Keion White still be referred to as "erratic" this camp. I want to believe the potential is still there...

Yep; I like the talk he talks, but he has to start doing what he needs to do too, which is setting the edge and hurting the QB.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Well the Pats & Faiduhs are two of the stupidest organizations in football, so maybe they do...

It's gameday Cap, cheer up

 

[Ring 6]

Bingo. Baker strikes me as a guy who will never have the consistency unfortunately. Hope he proves me dead wrong because he obviously has the physical traits of a good receiver.

Baker strikes me as a guy with a big ego and small intellect and a lack of discipline but a lot of physical talent.
If he fixes what’s above the neck he could become a consistent producer.

 

[Real fan 02]

No hate really; the dude's just not very good. He's definitely the worst of the Ellis bros that's for sure.

Ellis role will be specific.. I think like all young players they could improve.. but there aren't much LBs even all pros who are good in coverage. Fred Warner, ray Lewis for example are HOF players and future HOF however they still struggled covering RBs.. Ideally you want your speedy safeties on RBs out the backfield.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Baker strikes me as a guy with a big ego and small intellect and a lack of discipline but a lot of physical talent.
If he fixes what’s above the neck he could become a consistent producer.

100%.
I don't know his full history, but there are a high percentage of NFL players that come from less than ideal family/economic backgrounds, and don't get the ideal parenting so many people take for granted.
Again, I don't know his history, but perhaps he is in need of guidance, something Mayo and staff were most certainly ill equipped to provide.
My hope is Vrabs will help him turn the light on, and keep it on.

 

[Ring 6]

Your points are valid, and I'm sure Chism supporters understand the odds, I know I certainly do.
I have said at every turn, IF Chism stands out in camp and makes noticeable plays in pre-season. Nothing has changed, that's how I feel.
Wether those plays are on special teams, or offense, he needs to standout, I've said that multiple times.
Remember the BB Wally Pipp comment? That came on an Edleman return during the pre-season. He made a noticeable play and made the team, and eventually carved out a WR role. If I were to guess, Jules return was probably against future UPS drivers, Phys Ed teachers, maybe even Subway sandwich artists.
Chism can most certainly do the same, he's starting out as a far more accomplished WR than Jules was coming out of college as an option QB.
So you think he can make the PS no problem, and if he has a quiet pre-season that's probably the case. But if he makes some noticeable plays, like Jule's punt return in 2009 pre-season, I don't think we can sneak him through waivers.

Do you honestly think that Belichick made the decision on Edelman based upon one punt return rather than his college tape, pre draft evaluation, OTAs, mini camps and 6 weeks of practices?

That’s the point I am trying to make here. YOU see what happened in a preseason game and only that, and there is so much more that fits into the evaluation. Therefore YOU naturally overvalue one or 2 plays that the people who scout them, evaluate them and coach them expect them to be able to make. Preseason games do not move the needle alone except for fans, because it’s all they have

As a patriots fan we have a long history of nobody WRs who looked great vs. scrubs in preseason games and never amounted to anything because they were good enough to beat scrubs but not good enough to be front line players.
Teams don’t scour preseason games to find who did well vs guys who won’t make rosters in order to sign them because if it.

Chism may return a pint for a TD. Every evaluator knows he is capable of that. Doing it against a rag tag st unit and because of good blocking doesn’t make another team stand up and say wow, how did we miss him. Same with catching 3 or 4 passes.

 

[captain stone]

Need to be RIGHT instead of caring about the TEAM.
WHO should they have drafted, Membou the RT, Simmons off a bad Pettella?
Wtf do you ****s think. Tet,

Kelvin Banks.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Do you honestly think that Belichick made the decision on Edelman based upon one punt return rather than his college tape, pre draft evaluation, OTAs, mini camps and 6 weeks of practices?

That’s the point I am trying to make here. YOU see what happened in a preseason game and only that, and there is so much more that fits into the evaluation. Therefore YOU naturally overvalue one or 2 plays that the people who scout them, evaluate them and coach them expect them to be able to make. Preseason games do not move the needle alone except for fans, because it’s all they have

As a patriots fan we have a long history of nobody WRs who looked great vs. scrubs in preseason games and never amounted to anything because they were good enough to beat scrubs but not good enough to be front line players.
Teams don’t scour preseason games to find who did well vs guys who won’t make rosters in order to sign them because if it.

Chism may return a pint for a TD. Every evaluator knows he is capable of that. Doing it against a rag tag st unit and because of good blocking doesn’t make another team stand up and say wow, how did we miss him. Same with catching 3 or 4 passes.

So you think there is vast difference in Jules being selected in the 7th round, and a priority UDFA? No there isn't. The reason he was sought after as a priority UDFA and went on 6 top 30 visits is because of his college tape. So yes, he has the traits that teams think can translate to the NFL, and making big plays in camp and pre can most certainly move the needle. All the arguments you made on Jules "college tape, pre draft evaluation, OTAs, mini camps and 6 weeks of practices" are the exact same arguments you can make for Chism. Your contention is because Jules was drafted in the 7th round and Chism was a priority UDFA that those same criteria don't apply to Chism.

 

[n1997y]

Do you honestly think that Belichick made the decision on Edelman based upon one punt return rather than his college tape, pre draft evaluation, OTAs, mini camps and 6 weeks of practices?

That’s the point I am trying to make here. YOU see what happened in a preseason game and only that, and there is so much more that fits into the evaluation. Therefore YOU naturally overvalue one or 2 plays that the people who scout them, evaluate them and coach them expect them to be able to make. Preseason games do not move the needle alone except for fans, because it’s all they have

As a patriots fan we have a long history of nobody WRs who looked great vs. scrubs in preseason games and never amounted to anything because they were good enough to beat scrubs but not good enough to be front line players.
Teams don’t scour preseason games to find who did well vs guys who won’t make rosters in order to sign them because if it.

Chism may return a pint for a TD. Every evaluator knows he is capable of that. Doing it against a rag tag st unit and because of good blocking doesn’t make another team stand up and say wow, how did we miss him. Same with catching 3 or 4 passes.

You’re right, no team is going to stand up saying wow because of his preseason performances alone. But we already know five other teams were looking at him because of his college tape etc. Any one of them could decide that his preseason performances confirm the potential they already saw, and the upside of possibly developing the next Squirrel is worth the cost of cutting some fringe player whose bubble is about to burst anyway. So it may be more likely for him to be claimed than a more traditional WR like Polk or Baker for example.