Thoughts on Mike Gillislee so far?

[RobertWeathers]

True. But ypc may be a bit overemphasized in the larger context.

What it means is he's not very explosive

 

[PatsDeb]

He wsn't at all "invisible" in the first 8 games of the season (roughly a top-20/top 25 RB in contributions), and he's been a healthy scratch the last four after being surpassed by both Lewis and Burkhead.

Ah, it was a joke...

 

[Vatahala]

Gillislee has served as good competition for the other RBs to keep working hard and provides top level replacement value in case of injury.

Bad weather games might be a chance for TD Mike to be game active.

We're still a day away from a 10 day weather forecast in Pittsburgh but on Sat. its in the 30's with 10% prec.

It is a safe assumption that Gillislee doesn't play ST's because he has been tried and found wanting?

A part of me always wondered about those players that don't play ST's aren't they capable of learning how?

 

[goheels22002]

It's not Gillislee's fault that Lewis is back in form

Exactly. And it is great to have a player like Gillislee if any of the other backs get hurt. He's a good player, can get into the end zone, and is not beat up. We might see him active for the Steelers game to switch things up. Belichick and McDaniels have thrown a change-up in previous years by featuring a back for whom the opponent is not prepared. Nobody's spending any time getting ready for Gillislee.

 

[maineman209]

It is a safe assumption that Gillislee doesn't play ST's because he has been tried and found wanting?

It's not necessarily a question of whether or not Gillislee is "good enough". It may be that, for the roles for which he's suitable (and good enough), the Pats already have more than enough guys who are more experienced and who are also capable of playing ST roles for which Gillislee is NOT particularly well-suited (e.g., tackling on the units that defend against opponent KR and PR attempts).

A part of me always wondered about those players that don't play ST's aren't they capable of learning how?

Offensive skill-position players most often have limited experience/skill at tackling, which leaves them off KR/PR coverage units. They may be fully capable of learning how, but there's a finite amount of practice reps and minutes available. Why spend them on teaching offensive skill players how to do what the players on defensive 50% of the roster are already very capable of doing?

There are other considerations that vary from individual to individual that may be totally unrelated to their potential ST ability.

 

[maineman209]

What it means is he's not very explosive

Or, merely ordinary compared to Lewis and Burkhead.

Or, maybe it was partly the state of the OL and other blockers for the first few games. I don't recall them opening the gaping holes back then with the regularity that Lewis and Burkhead have been seeing recently.

Gillislee obviously wasn't making the kind of yardage after contact that Lewis has been. Nevertheless, he still contributed more yards/game, more TDs, and more 1st downs than a lot of other teams' "lead" RBs. Maybe ypc simply isn't all that important all the time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Or, merely ordinary compared to Lewis and Burkhead.

Or, maybe it was partly the state of the OL and other blockers for the first few games. I don't recall them opening the gaping holes back then with the regularity that Lewis and Burkhead have been seeing recently.

Gillislee obviously wasn't making the kind of yardage after contact that Lewis has been. Nevertheless, he still contributed more yards/game, more TDs, and more 1st downs than a lot of other teams' "lead" RBs. Maybe ypc simply isn't all that important all the time.

Whats crazy is he was #3 in the NFL last year in YAC.

I think it comes down to....

1) Not as good running behind this line
2) Does not represent a believable receiving threat thus defenses "know whats coming"
3) Not as elusive and quick as DLew and Burk

Maybe the downfield blocking is better now than it was than.

I also wonder if they tried to tweak his running style and that has made him less decisive. I dunna know....

 

[maineman209]

I was way off about him. I thought he was going to hit 1,000 yards in this offense. I even made a $100 bet about it with a friend of mine. Burkhead, on the other hand, looks like a monster of a Swiss Army Knife and Dion is back to his 2015 ways.

Before Edelman was injured, I was projecting Gillislee, Lewis, White and Burkhead to get between 400 and 425 carries, collectively. They're on pace to get 413 (last year it was 410 RB totes).

I was projecting Gillislee to get between 45% and 50% of those carries (+/- 200), with the other three splitting the rest - in a distribution that would be much closer to an RBBC than last season (when Blount took about 75% of the carries). Before he began sitting, Gillislee was on pace to hit 196 carries.

I projected the RB group to produce between 1600 and 1800 ground yards (they're on pace to exceed 1800 yds - the best RB production since 2013), and projected Gillislee to produce between 700 and 900 (he was on pace to hit 710, the low end of my etimated range).

All of the above projections/estimates were based on the assumption that Brady would end up with something close to 600 pass attempts for the season, or maybe just slightly fewer rather than more (he's on pace for 584), and then reviewing the range of RB results from those seasons in the past (all since 2006).

I also projected RBs to be targeted 120 - 130 times and produce 700-850 receiving yards (again, this was before Edelman's injury). Even with Lewis seeing an unusually low number of tgts (for him), they're on pace for 148 tgts on the season and well over 900 receiving yards as a group (roughly matching 2015). Keep in mind that these "on pace" projections are based on current season totals that include Lewis' slow start to the season and Burkhead missing four games early on. Based on their production rates from the most recent four games, the tgts/receiving yards numbers could end up significantly higher.

Obviously, Burkhead and Lewis have really stepped up in Edelman's absence (and the Pats needed them to). And White, who is on pace to match his receiving production from last season while having his best statistical season running the ball.

The point here is that Edelman's injury has changed a lot of things about the offense that have ultimately had a domino effect on Gillislee's role and usage.Had Edelman NOT been injured, Gillislee might have met (or even exceeded) my projections.

 

[tasmlab]

It is a safe assumption that Gillislee doesn't play ST's because he has been tried and found wanting?

A part of me always wondered about those players that don't play ST's aren't they capable of learning how?

Recently reading about Hollister making special teams, the big gap in ST skills was learning good tackling, which would be something a full time RB wouldn't allocate much practice time to.

 

[maineman209]

Whats crazy is he was #3 in the NFL last year in YAC.

I think it comes down to....

1) Not as good running behind this line
2) Does not represent a believable receiving threat thus defenses "know whats coming"
3) Not as elusive and quick as DLew and Burk

Maybe the downfield blocking is better now than it was than.

I also wonder if they tried to tweak his running style and that has made him less decisive. I dunna know....

It seems to me that the various injury situations at WR, OL, LB and ST gunners have also played a role in keeping Gillislee on the bench these past four weeks (probably five, soon). When - IF - those situations start to straighten out, and/or when the Pats playoff seeding has been determined, we might see Gillislee return.

And, if the OL is as improved over what it seemed to be earlier in the season as I think, we might see a version of Gillislee who's much closer to what a lot of folks expected before the season.

 

[maineman209]

Recently reading about Hollister making special teams, the big gap in ST skills was learning good tackling, which would be something a full time RB wouldn't allocate much practice time to.

Since 2012 (as far back as snap counts go), full time RBs on the Pats (which obviously excludes Bolden) have typically gotten very few ST snaps - ZERO in most cases, except when they were also a returner. Which makes the 9 ST snaps/game that Burkhead has been seeing this season very unusual.

 

[BelizePats]

I thought Gillislee would be paying a much more significant role in this years offense. Am I disappointed that that he is not? Hell no! We have two backs playing at a very high level and a 3rd that is as clutch as they come when he's in the game.
The reality is that, at least for now, Gillislee is insurance for when/if one of the two guys guys ahead of him gets hurt! I'm not including White here because their skill sets are so different.

That Gillislee has been relegated to being a healthy scratch is not a bad thing. We have him waiting in the wings and under contract for 2018 at reasonable money. YOu simply can't have 4 RB's on one team making an impact. Especially when you have TB12 as your QB.

First it was Allen who was a disappointment, then it was Dorsett and now its Gillislee. I am baffled how anyone who has followed this team for any length of time, takes such a shallow and short term perspective on how this team manages its players.

 

[dafoe2016]

Gilllislee has been a clear upgrade, and I loved what Blount brought to our team. Much more decisive, much less of a tell to the other team on what we're going to do. He runs hard and has done well on the goal line.

Clear upgrade? LOL! Blount 2016: 1161 yards/ 18 TD. Gillislee 2017: 4 consective healthy DNPs. Clear upgrade. I'm in tears of laughter.

Why is it so difficult for some people to admit they were wrong, no matter how much evidence piles up against them? I guess Allen is a "clear upgrade" over Bennett too.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Clear upgrade? LOL! Blount 2016: 1161 yards/ 18 TD. Gillislee 2017: 4 consective healthy DNPs. Clear upgrade. I'm in tears of laughter.

Why is it so difficult for some people to admit they were wrong, no matter how much evidence piles up against them? I guess Allen is a "clear upgrade" over Bennett too.

Our other running backs have outperformed him. That's a good problem. My analysis at that point wasn't incorrect. But whatever.

 

[primetime]

Turns out he's not as good as Lewis or Burkhead and doesn't contribute on special teams like Bolden. Doesn't hurt to have an effective backup in the wings if either of your guys go down, but right now the Patriots have two of the better running backs in football.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Who?

 

[maineman209]

Clear upgrade? LOL! Blount 2016: 1161 yards/ 18 TD. Gillislee 2017: 4 consective healthy DNPs. Clear upgrade. I'm in tears of laughter.

Why is it so difficult for some people to admit they were wrong, no matter how much evidence piles up against them? I guess Allen is a "clear upgrade" over Bennett too.

I wasn't wrong. But then, I never expected Gillislee to be a one-to-one replacement for Blount - NOT because he's not "good", but because it was crystal clear from spring that the running attack was going to take a completely different approach this season, and that no single RB was going to get anywhere near 75% of the totes like Blount did in 2016. Not even Blount would've been "Blount" on the 2017 Pats.

During the first 8 games, Gillislee performed almost exactly as I'd expected him to. He did his job and did it well. And, with the way that the Lewis-Burkhead Show has taken over, it would've been Blount as the healthy scratch these past four weeks instead of Gllislee.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wasn't wrong. But then, I never expected Gillislee to be a one-to-one replacement for Blount - NOT because he's not "good", but because it was crystal clear from spring that the running attack was going to take a completely different approach this season, and that no single RB was going to get anywhere near 75% of the totes like Blount did in 2016. Not even Blount would've been "Blount" on the 2017 Pats.

During the first 8 games, Gillislee performed almost exactly as I'd expected him to. He did his job and did it well. And, with the way that the Lewis-Burkhead Show has taken over, it would've been Blount as the healthy scratch these past four weeks instead of Gllislee.

Blount got the high carry percentage because Lewis wasn't yet ready for more, post-injury. With Lewis rounding back into form, Gillislee was almost certain to get fewer carries. What's really impacted Gillislee, though, in terms of putting him on the bench, is probably the addition of Burkhead, particularly in combination with the loss of Edelman. If you take away Burkhead, and go with Blount/Lewis/White, you've got 2015 when Lewis was playing. The addition of Burkhead, along with the IR'ing of Edelman, seems to have caused a real focus change with regards to use of the running backs.

 

[mgteich]

Apparently, Gillislie is a bum because Lewis and Burkhead are playing better than he is. White is a non-issue, since he is our fine 3rd down back.

I'm fine with Gillislie, and fine that our top 2 RB's are healthy, and that THEREFORE Gillisilie is inactive.

I welcome Gillislie back for 2018, or for any future game this year (if there is an injury).

 

[dafoe2016]

I wasn't wrong. But then, I never expected Gillislee to be a one-to-one replacement for Blount - NOT because he's not "good", but because it was crystal clear from spring that the running attack was going to take a completely different approach this season, and that no single RB was going to get anywhere near 75% of the totes like Blount did in 2016. Not even Blount would've been "Blount" on the 2017 Pats.

During the first 8 games, Gillislee performed almost exactly as I'd expected him to. He did his job and did it well. And, with the way that the Lewis-Burkhead Show has taken over, it would've been Blount as the healthy scratch these past four weeks instead of Gllislee.

Wow. Just, wow. You truly do live in your own little fantasy world. That's cool. Have fun with that. I'm not getting sucked down that rabbit hole.