Thoughts on Mike Gillislee so far?

[patsinthesnow]

I can't agree with this type of blanket, generalized comparison.

Gillislee and Lewis have different running skills and abilities, different ways of getting yardage on the ground. One skill set may be more optimal than the other depending on the game situation and on the opposing defense - their strengths/weaknesses, their scheme, their tendencies - and on how the Pats offense is setting them up to be exploited.

OTOH, the argument that Lewis is always a threat to catch a pass out of the backfield (whereas Gillislee is not) is a fairly valid one.

Over the course of Gillislee's 29 NFL game appearances, he's seen a total of 18 targets and caught 15 of them for 79 yards (5.3 ypc, longest of 18). In just the 13 games since he came back last season, Lewis has caught 24 of 31 targets for 136 yards (5.7 ypc, longest of 16). However, none of this means that Gillislee CAN'T catch passes out of the backfield. It just means that we don't expect him to. Perhaps certain opposing defenders don't expect him to, either. Advantage: Patriots.

Anyway, to say with certainty that one is "better" than the other is just too apples-and-oranges for me.

BTW -

Lewis has had four rushing TDs in his time with the Pats:

2015:
... from 6 yards out on 2nd & 3, Q1 v. BUF (week-2)
... from 8 yards out on 2nd & 8, Q1 v. JAX (week-3)

2017:
... from 8 yards out on 1st & 8, Q4 v. CAR
... from 1 yard on 1st & 1, Q2 v. NYJ last Sunday.

Gillislee's four TD runs for the Pats have been 2yds, 2yds, 1 yd, 2yds (also all on 1st or 2nd down). Six of his 8 scores for BUF in 2016 came from 3yds out or less (plus another from 5 yds).

In 2016, Blount scored 11 of his 18 TDs from the 1-yard-line, plus one from the 3, plus another from the 1 against PIT in the playoffs.

You are forgetting goalline plays such as:



The playbook is so open with him in the RZ and in short.

We probably agree somewhat. In the regular season Gillislee can have a sizeable role. Hopefully we build some leads so he can chew the clock. Lewis is just a special RB. When you have one, RBBC doesn’t make a lot of sense.

But as @KontradictioN points out, history suggests he won’t stay healthy if we use him as a feature RB. If it’s SB 52, I want Dion Lewis on the field as much as possible though.

 

[maineman209]

You are forgetting goalline plays such as:



The playbook is so open with him in the RZ and in short.

We probably agree somewhat. In the regular season Gillislee can have a sizeable role. Hopefully we build some leads so he can chew the clock. Lewis is just a special RB. When you have one, RBBC doesn’t make a lot of sense.

But as @KontradictioN points out, history suggests he won’t stay healthy if we use him as a feature RB. If it’s SB 52, I want Dion Lewis on the field as much as possible though.

That was a brilliant play by Lewis, but it was a 1st-and goal pass play from the 10, a 10 yard run after a catch in the flat in which he eluded four tacklers, two of whom didn't even lay a hand on him. That's not part of Gillislee's skill set.

Not sure how that's relevant to talking about short yardage run plays through the line.

The point I'm making - setting aside any assumed elevated injury risk - is that Lewis is not so special that it's optimal for the Pats to deploy him in even most of the game situations they'll encounter and the defensive personnel and schemes they'll encounter during the course of a season. Hence, the RBBC.

The whole point of an RBBC is to be adaptable, to be able to field a sufficiently successful ground game in any situation and against any defense without having to rely on one, rare, do-it-all, "special" player.

 

[Tunescribe]

IMO, Gillislee (he needs a nickname asap) has been hindered by the game plan of our games and by the quality of our Oline.

When he could, he showed some really good burst. He seems a lot quicker than Blount.

He hits the hole quicker than Blount and has better acceleration. One thing I think has hindered him is he isn't in there long enough to really get into the flow of a game, with Lewis and White getting carries as well. Once Burkhead comes back, there's no telling who gets how many carries, and when.

 

[Gumby]

The whole point of an RBBC is to be adaptable, to be able to field a sufficiently successful ground game in any situation and against any defense without having to rely on one, rare, do-it-all, "special" player.

I think you didn't emphasize (left off) one aspect (potentially the most important one to BB): to provide sufficient DEPTH with approximately equivalent talent at all RB skills (RB, block, receiver) that team doesn't take either a disastrous cap hit or capability hit if a RB (or different ones at different times) goes down or wears down during the year.

A.P. Went down and minny was cooked. Blount wore down and wasn't all there (fumbled in clutch?) in playoffs as a result.

I think bb is willing to forgo that guy who instills fear by the 4th qtr (4-5 games a year) who is more RB pure in order to have a more sustained and versatile RB presence. Gillislee-Lewis-Burkhard is the result. If none of them individually are better than 80% of Blount's "pounding" ability; that is BY DESIGN.

But 100% availability of 80% skill is better than 100% skill that isn't there for 25% of games.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I wish this wasnt the case, but I was totally right about Gillislee.

He's been a total bust so far.


355 yards and 3.6 ypc. That's way worst than what he produced in Buffalo last year!

 

[RobertWeathers]

I wish this wasnt the case, but I was totally right about Gillislee.

He's been a total bust so far.


355 yards and 3.6 ypc. That's way worst than what he produced in Buffalo last year!

I was totally wrong. I figured 800 yards and a 4+ ypc. I figured he had a good burst and with his one cut n go running style he was going to do well

I do think he has the talent. Just not happening here.

I fully expect this will be his last year with the team

 

[Family]

I thought he could play on special teams too.

With all the injuries the team sees no value for him there?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I thought he could play on special teams too.

With all the injuries the team sees no value for him there?

There is something else going on with him. Im convinced of it. We can speculate but we won't find out until he's cut and spills his guts to the press

 

[catent]

Mike Gillislee will lead the Patriots in rushing in Weeks 16 and 17: The former Bills running back was a healthy scratch for the fourth-straight game. It’s not all his fault — the Patriots have settled into nice backfield roles and the Patriots are carrying six injured players — because a lot of it is just a numbers game. If Brandon Bolden is going to be up for special teams, you can only have so many RBs active (James White is barely getting time). But when the Patriots have things wrapped up, Gillislee will be allowed to tee off against his former team and the Jets to end the season.

BSJ Game Report: Patriots 23, Bills 3 -- Gronk, RBs and defense lead the way

 

[maineman209]

I thought he could play on special teams too.

Not sure how that got started. Last year in Buffalo, he played only about 10 ST snaps per game - probably not even full time on 2 of the 4 primary units. Prior to that, he'd played a grand total of about 50 ST snaps over four years.

 

[maineman209]

The Pats have three 27-year-old RBs (two of whom are UFA at the end of the season) and one 25-year-old RB (White).

In the first half of the season, the RB who has been the "inactive #4" on the depth chart during the second half of the season so far, contributed 355 rushing yards on 98 carries and 4 of the team's 10 total rushing TDs. I wonder how many other teams' #3RB or even #2 RB have contributed that much in just 8 games. He's also under contract for another season at a salary of $1.9M, plus weekly roster bonuses totaling $500k (only paid if he's active).

I'm having a difficult time understanding the high level of concern over this.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not sure how that got started. Last year in Buffalo, he played only about 10 ST snaps per game - probably not even full time on 2 of the 4 primary units. Prior to that, he'd played a grand total of about 50 ST snaps over four years.

I think the point is he had substantial ST experience coming in here.

What's clear as day is Joe Judge and BB have deemed his ST value is at best, marginal. Heck they are pulling guys off the street to play ST here and not him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Pats have three 27-year-old RBs (two of whom are UFA at the end of the season) and one 25-year-old RB (White).

In the first half of the season, the RB who has been the "inactive #4" on the depth chart during the second half of the season so far, contributed 355 rushing yards on 98 carries and 4 of the team's 10 total rushing TDs. I wonder how many other teams' #3RB or even #2 RB have contributed that much in just 8 games. He's also under contract for another season at a salary of $1.9M, plus weekly roster bonuses totaling $500k (only paid if he's active).

I'm having a difficult time understanding the high level of concern over this.

The concern is he played a bunch and now he has been collecting dust for a good month now.

 

[maineman209]

I think the point is he had substantial ST experience coming in here.

What's clear as day is Joe Judge and BB have deemed his ST value is at best, marginal. Heck they are pulling guys off the street to play ST here and not him.

He's been in the NFL since 2013. He had the one season (2016) of a relatively low 10 ST snaps per game (13th or lower on the Pat) and basically no ST snaps prior to that year.

Not sure I'd call that substantial.

In contrast, Burkhead averaged about 17 ST snaps per game for three consecutive seasons in Cinci (their top special teamer in 2015).

 

[RobertWeathers]

He's been in the NFL since 2013. He had the one season (2016) of a relatively low 10 ST snaps per game (13th or lower on the Pat) and basically no ST snaps prior to that year.

Not sure I'd call that substantial.

In contrast, Burkhead averaged about 17 ST snaps per game for three consecutive seasons in Cinci (their top special teamer in 2015).

There is no question Rex is a vastly superior STer. I think BB knew that.

I consider over 200 career ST snaps substantial but I don't want to split hairs over it. I'm guessing they thought he could help them on ST but clearly not.

 

[maineman209]

The concern is he played a bunch and now he has been collecting dust for a good month now.

The team can really only have so many RBs active for a game without shorting itself at some other position. Two of the other three have been kicking butt both rushing and receiving, and the third is "Mr. Reliable" for Brady in pass-pro.

Somebody has to sit. Doesn't necessarily mean he can't contribute or that he's "in the doghouse."

Seriously, I'm just not concerned about Gillislee. It is what it is.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

There is no question Rex is a vastly superior STer. I think BB knew that.

I consider over 200 career ST snaps substantial but I don't want to split hairs over it. I'm guessing they thought he could help them on ST but clearly not.

We must resign Rex.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The team can really only have so many RBs active for a game without shorting itself at some other position. Two of the other three have been kicking butt both rushing and receiving, and the third is "Mr. Reliable" for Brady in pass-pro.

Somebody has to sit. Doesn't necessarily mean he can't contribute or that he's "in the doghouse."

Seriously, I'm just not concerned about Gillislee. It is what it is.

Clearly the team is making the right decisions as they are getting crazy production from the RBs. Production is not the concern at all.

I guess concern is not the right word. As it relates to Gillislee, it's dissapointment that he isn't even active. I think if he was running better he would play but he is what he is.....and it's not good enough

 

[maineman209]

There is no question Rex is a vastly superior STer. I think BB knew that.

I consider over 200 career ST snaps substantial but I don't want to split hairs over it. I'm guessing they thought he could help them on ST but clearly not.

With 10-12 guys ahead of him (on the Pats) with more substantial ST experience throughout their careers, Gillislee obviously isn't critical to special teams success right now. In my mind, that doesn't equate to he can't help at all in some role. Given that there are multiple roles on ST that require different skill sets, it's entirely possible that Gillislee's ST skill set is simply redundant at the moment.

He's similarly not critical to the success of the Pats ground game right now. Doesn't necessarily mean that he's incapable of contributing substantially if called upon.

 

[maineman209]

I think if he was running better he would play ...

And replace who?