The "this is not the Pats" take

[ahmed]

I have been hearing a lot of "Pats have not done this in 20 years", "These don't look like the Pats", "I am shocked the Pats are losing when they have not in 20 years", "They are used to retooling and winning on the go", "what happened to the Pats?" takes from media and fans on this board. They drive me nuts.

Of all the takes, I feel this take is the dumbest and most delusional one by far.

Do these people not watch the NFL? QB is by far the most important position in a team, and yet people somehow expected the Pats to lose the GOAT and just keep chugging along?

If it were that easy, they would have traded Brady for 10 1st round picks 10 years ago and just kept on winning SBs with his replacement.

How did people actually expect the Pats to lose their QB, you know the one whose reign has by pure accident coincided with the last 20 years of unusual winning, and then just keep on winning like nothing happened?

People need to wake up and smell the coffee. The Pats will be like any other team without a franchise QB until they find one. Sure BB is a great coach and will have them better than crappy loser organizations like the Jets but that's it.

 

[Tottie]

One thing BB has proven is that he can adapt. If he adapts there will be another run at it before he retires. A single run, not a dynasty. He won't benefit from cheap free agents or discount all world QBs though.

 

[Biffins]

I have been hearing a lot of "Pats have not done this in 20 years", "These don't look like the Pats", "I am shocked the Pats are losing when they have not in 20 years", "They are used to retooling and winning on the go", "what happened to the Pats?" takes from media and fans on these board. They drive me nuts.

Of all the takes, I feel this take is the dumbest and most delusional one by far.

Do these people not watch the NFL? QB is by far the most important position in a team, and yet people somehow expected the Pats to lose the GOAT and just keep chugging along?

If it were that easy, they would have traded Brady for 10 1st round picks 10 years ago and just kept on winning SBs with his replacement.

How did people actually expect the Pats to lose their QB, you know the one whose reign has by pure accident coincided with the last 20 years of unusual winning, and then just keep on winning like nothing happened?

People need to wake up and smell the coffee. The Pats will be like any other team without a franchise QB until they find one. Sure BB is a great coach and will have them better than crappy loser organizations like the Jets but that's it.

Makes total sense to me. BB won’t be able to Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson his way to a SB anymore. That era is done.

BB wanted to “claim” the legacy. We’re all about to see why Patrick Mahomes is paid $40m and Andy Reid is paid $7m per year. The whole concept that the HC is more valuable than the franchise QB is laughable. And their market value tells you that.

Brady with a schlub HC is a FAR more potent combination than BB with a schlub QB.

Even if you ignore BB’s HC career at Cleveland (why should you?) he’s now 20-23 and a losing record at Patriots in games without Brady as starting QB. That’s 2.5 seasons worth of games. Most HCs when they get a new hob only get 2-3 seasons to show they can have a winning record.

If BB was installed as HC of Patriots and was 2-5 in his 3rd season and 20-23 overall for tenute he’d be on the hot seat and fired. Noone would care what QBs he had to work with.

BB should have kept Brady and kept sharing the credit and accolades. Now he’s just confirming what many of us knew. The 136-39 record BB and Brady have together is really Brady’s doing.

Let’s Look at the Belichick “coaching tree” following same philosophy but not having Brady.

Coach	Seasons	W	L	T	Win pct
Al Groh	2000	9	7	0	.563
Bill O’Brien	2014-current	52	44	0	.542
Nick Saban	2005-06	15	17	0	.469
Eric Mangini	2006-10	33	47	0	.413
Josh McDaniels	2009-10	11	17	0	.393
Jim Schwartz	2009-13	29	51	0	.363
Romeo Crennel	2005-08, 2011-12	28	55	0	.337
Brian Flores	2019-current	5	11	0	.313
Matt Patricia	2018-current	9	22	1	.297
Joe Judge*	Current	0	0	0	—

Look at those winning percentages. BB himself will fall in middle of that pack for his Pats career ex-Brady of 20-23. Incidentally his record at Browns after 5 season was 36-44. At this pace with a few more season of mediocrity, BB can end his Patriots career ex-Brady at exactly 36-44 as well, confirming what we all knew and can whimper into a retirement.

Brady on the other hand is on track to continue his 75% winning rate, and will likely head to another Championship Game appearance at least and possible SB appearance.

BB should have been happy getting the credit all these years for Brady’s magic. Now he’s exposed.

 

[Biffins]

One thing BB has proven is that he can adapt. If he adapts there will be another run at it before he retires. A single run, not a dynasty. He won't benefit from cheap free agents or discount all world QBs though.

when has he proven this? Look at the stats I provide above.

 

[Tottie]

when has he proven this? Look at the stats I provide above.

It's interesting but I'd like to see other HOF coaches record without their HOF QBs. As you noted it's mostly about players so I'm not sure what you would expect the record to be without a great QB.

 

[jah]

Why does everyone insist the only thing holding this team back is the QB? We could have peak Brady back there and it wouldn't even be as good as 2006. The skill position situation is dire in a way I've never seen on any team in any season.

 

[gitgronked82]

Makes total sense to me. BB won’t be able to Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson his way to a SB anymore. That era is done.

I don’t know, I mean nick foles won it a few years ago and gimpy Peyton a couple years before that. I think you can still win with a decent but not great quarterback if the rest of your team is elite.

 

[ahmed]

All time D with loaded weapons on O for Broncos. As for Eagles, Foles had an amazing playoff run and Wentz was lights out before injury.

Even then, they were one offs. You simply cannot sustain excellence without a franchise QB in this league anymore.

I don’t know, I mean nick foles won it a few years ago and gimpy Peyton a couple years before that. I think you can still win with a decent but not great quarterback if the rest of your team is elite.

 

[ahmed]

Why does everyone insist the only thing holding this team back is the QB? We could have peak Brady back there and it wouldn't even be as good as 2006. The skill position situation is dire in a way I've never seen on any team in any season.

Nowhere did I say we are this way due to Brady alone. I just addressed the delusional take that Brady leaving did not change things for the Pats because they always won no matter what for the last 20 years.

 

[Doctor DDS]

BB is the GOAT coach and trying to remove the past 20 years is beyond stupid. BB drafted, trained and played Brady, He gets the credit for what they collectively accomplished just like every other all time coach in every sport. He's not the only coach to have an all timer at QB yet no one else is even in his zip code for sustained high level success. That said, some of the mythology around him became ridiculous. The Patriots Way (cap/roster management, changing game plans weekly...) was clearly a big part of why they dominated but at the end of the day having great players and Brady specifically was an even bigger part of it. Brady was obviously not a system QB as many would have you believe and they could not just plug any player into various roles and coach or game plan them up and succeed. It's truly amazing that they were able to dominate for as long as they did. With a real salary cap in the NFL and with the draft and scheduling process stacked against the best teams it is still stunning it lasted as long as it did.

High end talent is a crucial part of any teams success and if BB does not find a solution at QB and fill some of the holes in the roster the Pats will continue to struggle. The team is uniquely positioned this off season to retool and if BB is able to find a couple studs in the draft and add a couple Free agents there is no reason they cannot be competitive again next year. I wish Cam was playing better as I think this team had enough talent to compete for the division but either way I am glad he ripped the band aid off and accelerated the rebuild vs spacing it out over several years. Really looking forward to what this off season looks like.

 

[gitgronked82]

All time D with loaded weapons on O for Broncos. As for Eagles, Foles had an amazing playoff run and Wentz was lights out before injury.

Even then, they were one offs. You simply cannot sustain excellence without a franchise QB in this league anymore.

Well you were talking about winning a Super Bowl, not sustaining excellence. I think you can win a Super Bowl without an elite QB. Yes, of course you have to be elite in other areas. Only great teams win superbowls

 

[SVN]

wait one more yr. People will be calling for BB's head if we dont get to the AFCCG. Thats how the fans are here. People have grown up with this pats 20yrs dynasty and dont know anything else. And boston fans and esp media love to drive their coaches and players out if they dont perform well all the time.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Well you were talking about winning a Super Bowl, not sustaining excellence. I think you can win a Super Bowl without an elite QB. Yes, of course you have to be elite in other areas. Only great teams win superbowls

Hi

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

wait one more yr. People will be calling for BB's head if we dont get to the AFCCG. Thats how the fans are here. People have grown up with this pats 20yrs dynasty and dont know anything else. And boston fans and esp media love to drive their coaches and players out if they dont perform well all the time.

Like me, Bill's old, fat, not perfect, and a bit behind the times.

But like me, he's still up on a few things.

And unlike me or anyone else, he remains by far the best coach in pro football.

He is the Patriots' greatest asset, by far.