The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[signbabybrady]

Count me flip-flopper too.

It really boils down to structure. I only want BJ if the right defensive guy is coming or Vrabel with the right OC.

I'm still good with either

 

[Love The Drake]

Ma

Mayo put us into the pit of misery...

It’s a shame cause he was loved as a player I always felt a bit overrated.
But Belichick raved about him.

 

[PatsFan2]

Who is Johnson's GM choice?

I heard he's a Wolf's guy.

 

[Rob0729]

I have always been more pro-Josh than most, but I hate this if it's true. I get that Vrabel isn't part of Bill's coaching tree, and I won't be mad if he does end up as the head coach, but do we really need to recycle the same guys over and over? Josh did good things here, but we need to move on and update the offense to something that is modern and not just stick to the same old, same old. All of that is what makes Ben Johnson the most appealing candidate to me. It is a fresh start. A clean slate. No ties to the dynasty, no ties to Brady and Bill. Maybe Ben Johnson comes here and falls on his face, but in my opinion, the ceiling with him is higher than it is with Vrabel and McDaniels.

I fear McDaniels' style of defense is becoming more and more obsolete in today's NFL and I don't think it benefits Maye and his strengths and weaknesses. Kraft Sr. needs to learn that we have to move on from the past.

I don't think this would be Vrabel's first choice, but he might be willing to compromise to take him if he really wants to be here. Vrabel chose to go the Shanahan style of offense route when he was in Tennessee when he could have just as easily installed the McDaniels/Patriots offense. So I don't see this would be the offense he would choose with complete autonomy.

I love McDaniels. He could do a good job developing Maye, but I think his offense would hinder what Maye could do.

 

[203Pat]

I fear McDaniels' style of defense is becoming more and more obsolete in today's NFL and I don't think it benefits Maye and his strengths and weaknesses. Kraft Sr. needs to learn that we have to move on from the past.

I don't think this would be Vrabel's first choice, but he might be willing to compromise to take him if he really wants to be here. Vrabel chose to go the Shanahan style of offense route when he was in Tennessee when he could have just as easily installed the McDaniels/Patriots offense. So I don't see this would be the offense he would choose with complete autonomy.

I love McDaniels. He could do a good job developing Maye, but I think his offense would hinder what Maye could do.

I agree on McDaniels' style offense (I assume what you meant) becoming antiquated. That offense worked when you have a quarterback who is a very traditional drop back passer who relies on precision and timing. Brady, and to a much lesser extent Mac Jones, were guys who liked to sit in the pocket go through progressions and hit the open guy. While I think Maye will be able to do that (and to some extent already can) I think limiting him to that takes away so much of what Maye is capable of. Maye is an athlete and needs a guy like Johnson who can utilize his mobility and use the threat of Maye's mobility to keep a defense honest and open up some big plays. McDaniels' offense is like a Honda Accord. It gets the job done year in and year out but won't be able to keep up if you get into a race whereas Johnson's offense is a Ferrari. Flashy, fast, and exotic but costs a lot more to maintain.

This goes back to my whole ceiling comment. Sure the Ferrari could get wrecked and you're back to a Honda but I would love to see what the Ferrari can do with a capable driver.

 

[Grogan14]

Johnson could be the greatest offensive mind in the game today...BUT we have no idea how he will function as a head coach:

1. handling the media
2. Controlling the locker room
3. Inspiring his players
4. Instilling discipline
5. Overseeing coordinators
6. Dealing with meddlesome owners

1-6 have NOTHING to do with offensive ingenuity but more about leadership over a complex organization. Mayo was terrible at 1-6. I want someone who can nail 1-6 and also keep Kraft's hands out of football decisions as much as possible. Johnson could get bullied by the Krafts as a first time HC

Vrabel has PROVEN he can do it. Johnson is a big roll of the dice. If he is not good at 1-6, in 2 years we are back where we are today.

 

[Gumby]

Do we know WHO is doing these „Interviews“??

 

[Love The Drake]

D

Johnson could be the greatest offensive mind in the game today...BUT we have no idea how he will function as a head coach:

1. handling the media
2. Controlling the locker room
3. Inspiring his players
4. Instilling discipline
5. Overseeing coordinators
6. Dealing with meddlesome owners

1-6 have NOTHING to do with offensive ingenuity but more about leadership over a complex organization. Mayo was terrible at 1-6. I want someone who can nail 1-6 and also keep Kraft's hands out of football decisions as much as possible. Johnson could get bullied by the Krafts as a first time HC

Vrabel has PROVEN he can do it. Johnson is a big roll of the dice. If he is not good at 1-6, in 2 years we are back where we are today.

That’s what the Patriots need to decide by interviewing with him.
I don’t think he can control a room or draw respect like Vrabel could.
But maybe it’s close and his X’s and O’s And plan for Maye and the offense blows them away?

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Johnson could be the greatest offensive mind in the game today...BUT we have no idea how he will function as a head coach:

1. handling the media
2. Controlling the locker room
3. Inspiring his players
4. Instilling discipline
5. Overseeing coordinators
6. Dealing with meddlesome owners

1-6 have NOTHING to do with offensive ingenuity but more about leadership over a complex organization. Mayo was terrible at 1-6. I want someone who can nail 1-6 and also keep Kraft's hands out of football decisions as much as possible. Johnson could get bullied by the Krafts as a first time HC

Vrabel has PROVEN he can do it. Johnson is a big roll of the dice. If he is not good at 1-6, in 2 years we are back where we are today.

esp. all the asshats in the boston sports media just looking to create drama.

 

[Love The Drake]

C

D

That’s what the Patriots need to decide by interviewing with him.
I don’t think he can control a room or draw respect like Vrabel could.
But maybe it’s close and his X’s and O’s And plan for Maye and the offense blows them away?

I know that’s what it would take to beat out Vrabel for the spot
Cause we all thought it was Vrabel at his hall of fame induction.
It’s hard to replace the familiarity, comfort you have with Mike and say Josh.
But they clearly felt that same way about Jerod so no impromptu meeting of people or prayer circle will win them over this time.

 

[Vindicate]

Having Saleh on the Patriots staff would make beating the Jets even more tasty!

Vrabel and Saleh... Nice pairing. I'm warming up to Vrabel after more reading. Seems he learned a lot from his first stint at the Titans and, from a personality perspective, is improving.

Outside of Johnson, who's gunning for a HC position, what're other hot OC's we can poach?

 

[Love The Drake]

esp. all the asshats in the boston sports media just looking to create drama.

I believe Johnson would handle the media similar to Bill.

 

[Love The Drake]

Vrabel and Saleh... Nice pairing. I'm warming up to Vrabel after more reading. Seems he learned a lot from his first stint at the Titans and, from a personality perspective, is improving.

Outside of Johnson, who's gunning for a HC position, what're other hot OC's we can poach?

Niners already offered Saleh DC I bet he will be a niner.

 

[JohnJH]

When it's all said and done, unless the Kraft's will not give him what is reasonable, Mike Vrabel will be the new HC (as early as Friday, but no later than Monday). As it's been astutely pointed out, Johnson's talent as an OC is undeniable. However, even with a solid Free Agency and Draft, this Team does not yet possess the Offensive Talent of Detroit (except for a better QB). And, Vrabel unlike Johnson, knows how to manage more than one area of a Team. I'm not saying that Johnson can't learn to do that. But Vrabel already knows that he'll need to wear many "Hats" to run a successful Team. Johnson will not have the luxury of being able to solely concentrate on Offense like he does in Detroit. Vrabel worked his way up the coaching ranks starting at the College Level (Ohio State, a Major Program), and then worked as Position Coaches, Coordinator, then HC. He's still young and is able to bring that toughness and yet be able to relate to the younger players. He's also "One of them", as a 3 time SB Winning Player and Team Leader. If he brings in the right Coaching Staff, this team could not only improve quickly, but become a Legit SB Contender/Winner if they do the aforementioned and acquire talent well within the next 3 to 4 years Tops.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

I like Johnson’s choice of GM better.
I would need a guarantee from McDaniels he wouldn’t leave or I’m going Johnson for Maye and or Milton’s sake.

whom might that be, is it agnew ?

 

[Ray Ray 717]

When it's all said and done, unless the Kraft's will not give him what is reasonable, Mike Vrabel will be the new HC (as early as Friday, but no later than Monday). As it's been astutely pointed out, Johnson's talent as an OC is undeniable. However, even with a solid Free Agency and Draft, this Team does not yet possess the Offensive Talent of Detroit (except for a better QB). And, Vrabel unlike Johnson, knows how to manage more than one area of a Team. I'm not saying that Johnson can't learn to do that. But Vrabel already knows that he'll need to wear many "Hats" to run a successful Team. Johnson will not have the luxury of being able to solely concentrate on Offense like he does in Detroit. Vrabel worked his way up the coaching ranks starting at the College Level (Ohio State, a Major Program), and then worked as Position Coaches, Coordinator, then HC. He's still young and is able to bring that toughness and yet be able to relate to the younger players. He's also "One of them", as a 3 time SB Winning Player and Team Leader. If he brings in the right Coaching Staff, this team could not only improve wuickly, but become a Legit SB Contender/Winner if they do the aforementioned and acquire talent well within the next 3 to 4 years Tops.

Can't fathom watching another year of disgraceful WR talent and an anemic boring offense. Who will Vrabel bring in that is an elite offensive mind? because Vrabel does NOT know offense. We need to invest in our young QB, surround him with much better weapons and a high iq coach.

 

[Love The Drake]

whom might that be, is it agnew ?

Campbell said Johnson would likely want to work with Washington Commanders' assistant general manager Lance Newmark. Newmark was hired as Washington's assistant GM in February before the 2024 NFL season began, but previously spent 26 years with the Lions.Jan 2, 2025

sports.yahoo.com

​

 

[JohnJH]

Can't fathom watching another year of disgraceful WR talent and an anemic boring offense. Who will Vrabel bring in that is an elite offensive mind? because Vrabel does NOT know offense. We need to invest in our young QB, surround him with much better weapons and a high iq coach.

I agree. But these are unknowns that could be said of Johnson regarding the Defensive side of the ball (including Special Teams). I suspect that just through the last year alone (let alone his previous years of coaching), that when Vrabel interviews with the Kraft's, he'll have very specific answers to those questions. And Johnson and anyone else for that matter had better have answers to those questions as well). Also, Vrabel has a different drafting philosophy than Bill, especially regarding WR's and other Skill Position Players.

 

[PatsFan2]

Can't fathom watching another year of disgraceful WR talent and an anemic boring offense. Who will Vrabel bring in that is an elite offensive mind? because Vrabel does NOT know offense. We need to invest in our young QB, surround him with much better weapons and a high iq coach.

It will be different with Vrabel he's a Defensive guy who know how important a potent Offense is.

 

[Family]

Johnson could be the greatest offensive mind in the game today...BUT we have no idea how he will function as a head coach:

1. handling the media
2. Controlling the locker room
3. Inspiring his players
4. Instilling discipline
5. Overseeing coordinators
6. Dealing with meddlesome owners

1-6 have NOTHING to do with offensive ingenuity but more about leadership over a complex organization. Mayo was terrible at 1-6. I want someone who can nail 1-6 and also keep Kraft's hands out of football decisions as much as possible. Johnson could get bullied by the Krafts as a first time HC

Vrabel has PROVEN he can do it. Johnson is a big roll of the dice. If he is not good at 1-6, in 2 years we are back where we are today.

I believe Johnson would handle the media similar to Bill.

Ben Johnson is absolutely a possible huge mistake, but I am compelled to strive for greatness, and my bet would be on a Maye/BJ combo working it out. That's really the most important piece.

I'm ok either way. Strong argument for Vrabel. Flores would be interesting, if Minnesota loses. It's really hit or hit with the two choices.

If BJ doesn't work, bring in a real Harbaugh type floating around like the Chargers did this year. If Maye is for real it would take Mayoism heroics to keep him down.

It would just be a fun off season with Ben Johnson. Really either way is great.