The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[RobertWeathers]

The problem with Cowden is that he's under contract with the Browns and they might want him for OC, at which point a move to the Patriots would be considered a parallel move.

You might have mistyped. Cowden is an advisor w/ the Giants. Was FO w/the Titans

 

[signbabybrady]

Josh's "Genius" resume consists of riding the coat tails of Tom Brady. He was offensive coordinator for the rams one year and they were 32nd in the NFL in offense. He can thank Brady for those 3 rings.

"Failed attempts at HC" is an understatement. Not once but TWICE he was an abomination. He ruined the culture and set both franchises back for years. He was the most unlikeable player coach of all time. His two stints are arguably the worst in NFL history. McDaniels was god awful as a GM. He traded a future 1st round pick to move up in round 2 and take a 5'8 corner, Alfonzo Smith. He even drafted Tim Tebow in the first round!!! He drafted a tight end named Richard Quinn in round 2 who was the worst player I have ever seen. And how can we forget when he acted like a fist pumping moron in 2009 game against new england.

Why should Ben Johnson prove himself a 'good head coach' when Josh Mcdaniels didn't? In fact, McDaniels proved himself one of the worst hires in NFL history.

If you haven't noticed I don't give a crap about the it was all Brady argument. Just because he's the greatest football player of all time doesn't mean it erased the accomplishments of those around him.

Bottom line is Josh accomplished more in first 3 years than BJ has. He followed that up with a second stint as an OC where he won 3 SBs.

He might not get another HC chance but fact is you won't find a potential OC with a better resume than Josh.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And hemade Ryan Tannehill look like a very good QB.

Yep. I said in another thread he had a ton of talent to work with an a very good OC in LaFleur.

Point is Vrabel won't bog down the offense...he'll let if flourish by finding the right coaching.

 

[signbabybrady]

My buddy's cousin knows a guy who said the same thing. Go figure!

 

[TheRainMaker]

Josh's "Genius" resume consists of riding the coat tails of Tom Brady. He was offensive coordinator for the rams one year and they were 32nd in the NFL in offense. He can thank Brady for those 3 rings.

"Failed attempts at HC" is an understatement. Not once but TWICE he was an abomination. He ruined the culture and set both franchises back for years. He was the most unlikeable player coach of all time. His two stints are arguably the worst in NFL history. McDaniels was god awful as a GM. He traded a future 1st round pick to move up in round 2 and take a 5'8 corner, Alfonzo Smith. He even drafted Tim Tebow in the first round!!! He drafted a tight end named Richard Quinn in round 2 who was the worst player I have ever seen. And how can we forget when he acted like a fist pumping moron in 2009 game against new england.

Why should Ben Johnson prove himself a 'good head coach' when Josh Mcdaniels didn't? In fact, McDaniels proved himself one of the worst hires in NFL history.

It’s amazing how very little people acknowledge this.

Josh is a fraud who also made horrendous personnel decisions. If he was a wiz on offense, his knowledge would travel as it did with Shanahan, Reid and others. We may find out soon how Johnson does.

 

[upstater1]

Breer complaining about the process is absolutely meaningless when the Krafts are running the search.

There is absolutely no ability to analyze which coach is better at coaching football. So it doesn't matter if this is the most thorough process in history.

At the end of the day, the ones who make the decisions might as well just flip a coin.

This country has really gotten to the point where we have total disdain for expertise. There are people out there in life who know how to do things, because they have devoted their entire lives to learning how to do those things, and other people watch them and assumer that (mainly because they have a lot of money) they have expertise.

 

[Tunescribe]

We're splitting hairs. He played under him for a decade and stated in his recent interviews belichick's influence on him played a huge role in how he molded his coaching philosophy.

I certainly would hope BB played a huge role in how Vrabel molded his coaching philosophy -- he's the GOAT. That doesn't mean Vrabel would try to be BB 2.0. Don't forget Vrabel defeated Belichick in the 2019 playoffs.

 

[The Gr8est]

I certainly would hope BB played a huge role in how Vrabel molded his coaching philosophy -- he's the GOAT. That doesn't mean Vrabel would try to be BB 2.0. Don't forget Vrabel defeated his mentor in the 2018 playoffs.

I remember too on draft day, that there were concerns that Vrabel would always draft the players that BB wanted, including trading in front of the Pats to do so.

They liked the same type of players.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I certainly would hope BB played a huge role in how Vrabel molded his coaching philosophy -- he's the GOAT. That doesn't mean Vrabel would try to be BB 2.0. Don't forget Vrabel defeated Belichick in the 2018 playoffs.

Pats were the first team to lose in the playoffs, but then win the Super Bowl in 2018.

It was the 2019 playoffs.

 

[upstater1]

You might have mistyped. Cowden is an advisor w/ the Giants. Was FO w/the Titans

Sorry, I meant Rees.

 

[signbabybrady]

Matt Cassell made the pro bowl and won the division for a DIFFERENT team other than the patriots (Kansas City). Cam Newton was an NFL MVP who went 15-1 and reached the Superbowl prior to playing for the patriots.

So there are other good players other than Brady who help their coaches win.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Time to separate ourselves from the BB coaching tree. That old patriot way is GONE. Let's start fresh.

While he’s technically not from the coaching tree, he’s too closely related to Bill playing in his defense and system for years.

Kevin O’Connell on the other hand, would be an example of a player who was on the Pats, but not on long enough to be influenced.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sorry, I meant Rees.

Yea we'll have to see how this plays out.

 

[upstater1]

Matt Cassell made the pro bowl and won the division for a DIFFERENT team other than the patriots (Kansas City). Cam Newton was an NFL MVP who went 15-1 and reached the Superbowl prior to playing for the patriots.

Cassel was soon out of a job. He was effectively like a great many backups who started and did well and made the Pro Bowl (there are so many of these guys, like Case Keenum and so many on that list).

Do I really need to say that the guy we signed for $1m was not nearly the guy who went 15-1. There is a reason I got him mixed up with a famous shot-putter. Because his shoulder was shredded and he looked like he was throwing a 50 pound ball out there.

Really, 11-5 with Cassel, 7-8 with 2020 Newton, and 10-7 with Mac Gutless Jones is good solid work.

 

[RobertWeathers]

While he’s technically not from the coaching tree, he’s too closely related to Bill playing in his defense and system for years.

Kevin O’Connell on the other hand, would be an example of a player who was on the Pats, but not on long enough to be influenced.

I don't see it as an issue.

Bill has a horrible track record of understudies assuming coaching roles but I don't think being associated with him shoud warrant a blacklisting.

Vrabel succeeded on his own. That says enough.

 

[lancerman]

I used to work for E2G Sports. My friend who started it has connections and sources. I was just told that Vrabel and Pats had a deal in place since last Tuesday. Last Tuesday, Jonathan and Vrabel had a dinner meeting. The deal is done, Vrabel will be the HC. As for people that will come with him, here are the names I am hearing:

Terrell Williams
Tim Kelly
Tommy Rees
Ryan Cowden(GM?)
Tom Quinn
Roman Phifer

If this is true it's an example of why this franchise is in the state it's in. Kraft is more concerned with comfort than aggressively building a contender.

 

[lancerman]

I don't see it as an issue.

Bill has a horrible track record of understudies assuming coaching roles but I don't think being associated with him shoud warrant a blacklisting.

Vrabel succeeded on his own. That says enough.

"Succeeded". He has a single season where he won playoff games and that was a half decade ago. He has more losing seasons than seasons where he won playoff games.

 

[RobertWeathers]

"Succeeded". He has a single season where he won playoff games and that was a half decade ago. He has more losing seasons than seasons where he won playoff games.

We agree to disagree and Vrabel. I've debated enough with you on him.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't see it as an issue.

Bill has a horrible track record of understudies assuming coaching roles but I don't think being associated with him shoud warrant a blacklisting.

Vrabel succeeded on his own. That says enough.

And sometimes the Second time around is the charm.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I don't see it as an issue.

Bill has a horrible track record of understudies assuming coaching roles but I don't think being associated with him shoud warrant a blacklisting.

Vrabel succeeded on his own. That says enough.

I just think it’s a buyer beware situation. It would appear he’d be another Bill wannabe where I don’t think Bob wants to risk again. Media seems to favor him, but like Mayo, they will turn on him fast if things aren’t going the way it should.

This is going to be a very tough decision for Bob to get it right for a number of reasons. This might be his only shot to get it right.

In the end, I think Bob goes with Johnson if he wants it because they need to maximize Maye.