The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[Ray Ray 717]

Vrabel is not from the BB coaching tree.

We're splitting hairs. He played under him for a decade and stated in his recent interviews belichick's influence on him played a huge role in how he molded his coaching philosophy.

 

[lancerman]

I was basically saying I think he values them.

Or the GM did. Unless you want to say he didn't value him enough to keep him.

 

[upstater1]

I’ve heard that Ben Johnson has a connection with Eliot Wolf and Vrabel wants to bring in his own GM, the name has been mentioned on this site.

Vrabel it is!!!!!!

 

[Ross12]

Addressing @KDPPatsfan85's list,

Roman Phifer - we probably all remember him as a LB, but after retirement he was an assistant LB coach for NYG for 2 years, then went into the front office. He was most recently a scout for the Lions from '18-'21 and then a senior personnel executive for the Broncos from '21 through now.

Ryan Cowden - scout for the Panthers from 2000 through 2015; VP of Player Personnel for the Titans from '16 through '22, and Interim General Manager in '22 after Jon Robinson got canned (while Vrabel was there). From '23 through now, has been "senior advisor to the general manager" for the Giants.

Tommy Rees - young guy, only 32. Played backup QB for Brian Kelly at Notre Dame. Was QB Coach for Notre Dame from '17 through '20, then Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach still for Notre Dame from '20-'22. Became Alabama's Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach for 2023 after Bill O'Brien left to go to New England. Was Cleveland's "Pass Game Specialist" last year in 2024. So mostly college experience for him.

Tim Kelly - a guy who was often connected to Bill O'Brien. Only 38. He worked for BOB at Penn State as a graduate assistant. When BOB went to Houston, he went as well as an offensive quality control analyst. Became the TE Coach from '17 to '18. Became the Offensive Coordinator in '19. Became the OC & QB Coach in '20. When BOB was fired and David Culley was brought in for '21, he was kept on as the OC/QB Coach that year, but fired along with Culley after '21. He then went to be Mike Vrabel's "passing game coordinator" in '22 and then the full OC in '23. Fired along with Vrabel. Then went over to be TE coach under Daboll in NY for '24.

Terrell Williams - Raiders DL coach from '12-'14, Dolphins DL coach from '15 to '17, Titans DL coach from '18 to '22 (under Vrabel), elevated to Assistant Head Coach under Vrabel in '23. This past year he has been both the DL coach and also "run game coordinator" for the Detroit Lions of all places. That's an impressive unit...

Tom Quinn - This guy is actually already on the Pats staff as the current Assistant Special Teams Coordinator, under Jeremy Springer. Prior to this he was the Special Teams Coordinator for the Titans under Vrabel in 2023. Before that, he was with the Giants for all of 2006 through 2021, starting as the Special Teams Coordinator, being fired in 2017, and then re-hired by them again as the Assistant Special Teams Coordinator, before eventually being fired by Daboll. I don't know what to make of this one since he is already on staff. I am guessing maybe this one simply means Vrabel wants to keep him, probably in the same role he has now.

 

[PatsFan2]

We're splitting hairs. He played under him for a decade and stated in his recent interviews belichick's influence on him played a huge role in how he molded his coaching philosophy.

Ray that's good it means Mike Vrabel will be an X's and O's Guy. That's really important for in game adjustments and such: we had None of that with Boot licker.

 

[signbabybrady]

That’s the name, thanks. Also good info on the connection.

Seems like a lot of people want Wolf out. Does this change their mind if Johnson would keep Wolf in place? Maybe Johnson says I can work with Wolf and Vrabel says he won’t and wants to bring his own GM in. Maybe that’s what makes Kraft select Johnson.

If Wolf can bring us Johnson I'd be willing to give him another year.

 

[PatsFan2]

Addressing @KDPPatsfan85's list,

Roman Phifer - we probably all remember him as a LB, but after retirement he was an assistant LB coach for NYG for 2 years, then went into the front office. He was most recently a scout for the Lions from '18-'21 and then a senior personnel executive for the Broncos from '21 through now.

Ryan Cowden - scout for the Panthers from 2000 through 2015; VP of Player Personnel for the Titans from '16 through '22, and Interim General Manager in '22 after Jon Robinson got canned (while Vrabel was there). From '23 through now, has been "senior advisor to the general manager" for the Giants.

Tommy Rees - young guy, only 32. Played backup QB for Brian Kelly at Notre Dame. Was QB Coach for Notre Dame from '17 through '20, then Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach still for Notre Dame from '20-'22. Became Alabama's Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach for 2023 after Bill O'Brien left to go to New England. Was Cleveland's "Pass Game Specialist" last year in 2024. So mostly college experience for him.

Tim Kelly - a guy who was often connected to Bill O'Brien. Only 38. He worked for BOB at Penn State as a graduate assistant. When BOB went to Houston, he went as well as an offensive quality control analyst. Became the TE Coach from '17 to '18. Became the Offensive Coordinator in '19. Became the OC & QB Coach in '20. When BOB was fired and David Culley was brought in for '21, he was kept on as the OC/QB Coach that year, but fired along with Culley after '21. He then went to be Mike Vrabel's "passing game coordinator" in '22 and then the full OC in '23. Fired along with Vrabel. Then went over to be TE coach under Daboll in NY for '24.

Terrell Williams - Raiders DL coach from '12-'14, Dolphins DL coach from '15 to '17, Titans DL coach from '18 to '22 (under Vrabel), elevated to Assistant Head Coach under Vrabel in '23. This past year he has been both the DL coach and also "run game coordinator" for the Detroit Lions of all places. That's an impressive unit...

Tom Quinn - This guy is actually already on the Pats staff as the current Assistant Special Teams Coordinator, under Jeremy Springer. Prior to this he was the Special Teams Coordinator for the Titans under Vrabel in 2023. Before that, he was with the Giants for all of 2006 through 2021, starting as the Special Teams Coordinator, being fired in 2017, and then re-hired by them again as the Assistant Special Teams Coordinator, before eventually being fired by Daboll. I don't know what to make of this one since he is already on staff. I am guessing maybe this one simply means Vrabel wants to keep him, probably in the same role he has now.

Would he bring in the recently fired Ken Dorsey??

 

[signbabybrady]

Thats really a good point.

It's the older coaches that more often than not win SBs.

Arians
Reid
BB
Kubiak was mid 50s
Coughin
Doug Peterson was 49
Pom Pom was 62
Harbaugh was 50
McCarthy was 48
Payton was 46

Only Tomlin and McVay won SBs from the under 40 crowd.

I think Gruden was under 40

 

[PatsFan2]

Vrabel it is!!!!!!

I am for putting together a staff quickly. Guys in the Playoffs are at a disadvantage and get second fiddle position Coaches.

 

[upstater1]

Josh's "Genius" resume consists of riding the coat tails of Tom Brady. He was offensive coordinator for the rams one year and they were 32nd in the NFL in offense. He can thank Brady for those 3 rings.

"Failed attempts at HC" is an understatement. Not once but TWICE he was an abomination. He ruined the culture and set both franchises back for years. He was the most unlikeable player coach of all time. His two stints are arguably the worst in NFL history. McDaniels was god awful as a GM. He traded a future 1st round pick to move up in round 2 and take a 5'8 corner, Alfonzo Smith. He even drafted Tim Tebow in the first round!!! He drafted a tight end named Richard Quinn in round 2 who was the worst player I have ever seen. And how can we forget when he acted like a fist pumping moron in 2009 game against new england.

Why should Ben Johnson prove himself a 'good head coach' when Josh Mcdaniels didn't? In fact, McDaniels proved himself one of the worst hires in NFL history.

McDaniels' calling card is the fact that he managed to coach Matt Cassel and Ryan Crouser (excuse me, Cam Newton) and Mac Jones to a combined record of 28-20! Which is miraculous!

 

[mike_usagisan]

I was watching this last night. Listening to Vrabel talk about his team in defeat, it just sounded like a real football coach/leader of men. I can see why his players loved playing for him even as he is a hard ass. This is what we were desperately missing this last season.

 

[PatsFan2]

McDaniels' calling card is the fact that he managed to coach Matt Cassel and Ryan Crouser (excuse me, Cam Newton) and Mac Jones to a combined record of 28-20! Which is miraculous!

stater you're too much.

 

[upstater1]

Ken Dorsey would Vrabel bring him in with Tommy Rees he was a Good OC in Buffalo. Cleveland had more problems than the OC.

Dorsey was fired in Buffalo and hated here for his total ineptitude.

Out after one year in Cleveland.

I would take Matt Patricia or Alex Van Pelt over Dorsey.

 

[PatsFan2]

Dorsey was fired in Buffalo and hated here for his total ineptitude.

Out after one year in Cleveland.

I would take Matt Patricia or Alex Van Pelt over Dorsey.

Alright I get it.

 

[chasa]

getting a defensive coach means we're going to have a new OC every few years if the offense is good. not a lot of career OC that are great at their jobs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think Gruden was under 40

Yea I didn't go back that far but you are correct..39yo

 

[upstater1]

I used to work for E2G Sports. My friend who started it has connections and sources. I was just told that Vrabel and Pats had a deal in place since last Tuesday. Last Tuesday, Jonathan and Vrabel had a dinner meeting. The deal is done, Vrabel will be the HC. As for people that will come with him, here are the names I am hearing:

Ryan Cowden(GM?)

The problem with Cowden is that he's under contract with the Browns and they might want him for OC, at which point a move to the Patriots would be considered a parallel move.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

McDaniels' calling card is the fact that he managed to coach Matt Cassel and Ryan Crouser (excuse me, Cam Newton) and Mac Jones to a combined record of 28-20! Which is miraculous!

Matt Cassell made the pro bowl and won the division for a DIFFERENT team other than the patriots (Kansas City). Cam Newton was an NFL MVP who went 15-1 and reached the Superbowl prior to playing for the patriots.

 

[upstater1]

Plus Vrabel was HC when TN scored 30ppg. It's not hes a detriment to the offense

And hemade Ryan Tannehill look like a very good QB.

 

[Grogan14]

Vrabel has all the leverage here. I hope Kraft gives him what he wants