The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[Froob]

I like Tommy Rees Browns pass game coordinator: we should have better Pass play designs.

I mean our OL was so bad we didn’t even have much room for anything creative, couldn’t run anything slow developing

 

[fresnostatealum]

I prefer Johnson slightly over Vrabel but not at the risk of losing out on both. You can’t have any in person interviews with Johnson for another couple of weeks, and Vrabel could very well be hired during that time period. Then the Johnson interview doesn’t go as well as you hoped. Well then you’re going to have to reach into a barrel of some pretty uninspiring candidates.

If Vrabel agrees to the job tomorrow, pull the trigger.

 

[XLIX]

I’ve heard that Ben Johnson has a connection with Eliot Wolf

I am not saying you're wrong, but at no point during those mens' careers did they work together.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

First I was just attaching the most obvious name to the OC spot we don't know what Vrabel will actually do there yet.

Second Josh's genius and resume was better than BJ's over a decade ago when he first took the Denver job and since then he's only added 3 SB rings as a coordinator to his resume. His failed attempts at HC might be so that he won't get another chance as HC but that doesn't change that as an OC he's up there with anyone.

Let's see BJ win a SB or be a good Head Coach before we start calling him more of a offensive genius than Josh.

Josh's "Genius" resume consists of riding the coat tails of Tom Brady. He was offensive coordinator for the rams one year and they were 32nd in the NFL in offense. He can thank Brady for those 3 rings.

"Failed attempts at HC" is an understatement. Not once but TWICE he was an abomination. He ruined the culture and set both franchises back for years. He was the most unlikeable player coach of all time. His two stints are arguably the worst in NFL history. McDaniels was god awful as a GM. He traded a future 1st round pick to move up in round 2 and take a 5'8 corner, Alfonzo Smith. He even drafted Tim Tebow in the first round!!! He drafted a tight end named Richard Quinn in round 2 who was the worst player I have ever seen. And how can we forget when he acted like a fist pumping moron in 2009 game against new england.

Why should Ben Johnson prove himself a 'good head coach' when Josh Mcdaniels didn't? In fact, McDaniels proved himself one of the worst hires in NFL history.

 

[Headcase]

I am not saying you're wrong, but at no point during those mens' careers did they work together.

These connection talks originated here as far as I can tell...

[


Edit: pasted wrong link.

 

[PatsFan2]

Ken Dorsey would Vrabel bring him in with Tommy Rees he was a Good OC in Buffalo. Cleveland had more problems than the OC.

 

[Ross12]

I used to work for E2G Sports. My friend who started it has connections and sources. I was just told that Vrabel and Pats had a deal in place since last Tuesday. Last Tuesday, Jonathan and Vrabel had a dinner meeting. The deal is done, Vrabel will be the HC. As for people that will come with him, here are the names I am hearing:

Terrell Williams
Tim Kelly
Tommy Rees
Ryan Cowden(GM?)
Tom Quinn
Roman Phifer

I feel like you've had a scoop in the past, but I can't remember what it was. Either way, thanks for sharing!

Interesting that "last Tuesday" Jonathan and Vrabel had dinner - that would have been only 3 days after the Pats got their doors blown off by the Chargers, and Mayo was still the HC.

 

[lancerman]

The amount of crying about needing an offensive coach has gotten out of hand.

Josh Allen has a defensive head coach, he's had 3 or 4 OCs.

Lamar has a former special teams coordinator as head coach.

These are your two MVPs this year

Those teams have talent on offense. We don't and we have zero creativity.

One of the contenders for the job is a defensive coach who only succeeded with a HOF RB who was probably the clear best of his era (someone the Ravens who you mentioned have now) and a top 5 WR along with highly renowned OC's. And it all fell apart when the OC's left and the WR left. And they weren't doing anything special on offense. He was running Henry into the ground. He won't have that option here.

 

[Vindicate]

Just some player insight into Vrabel. For those who say he isn't of the Belichick coaching tree, it's extremely clear he is wholly inspired from his own experience playing for him. As I've said before, I'm not hot on him at all, but here's some valuable insight.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

Time to separate ourselves from the BB coaching tree. That old patriot way is GONE. Let's start fresh.

 

[jdlboot14]

If true, that would be a Damn Shame. Ownership first needs to hear what Ben Johnson has to say before they make Yet Again another hasty hiring of a familiar old face.

Not necessarily. This is much different than last year, and Vrabel is MUCH more than just an old familiar face.
He's been outside of this system for 17 years. He played for Todd Haley, coached for Urban Meyer, O'Brien, and Stefanski in 4 other organizations since being a Patriot.
That's a lot of diverse experience. He's not just a home-grown patsy (pun intended).
We need a very motivated guy with 6 yrs of HC experience, not a 38 year old who won't be able to hide in the offensive lab as a first time HC.

 

[KCSVEN]

While I know that behind the scenes the Titans were meddling more than than they should, it also seems like he was a bit of stubborn while receiving stuff from outside, and this includes Data Analytics. This is a yellow flag to me, because I like old-school type mentality but I do not like old school lethargy. Unfortunately analytics is part of football, great coaches will use them, and more so from now on.

That’s not actually true, the Titans coaches were actually proud of the fact they used analytics to be recognized as one of the best in-game managers because of it.
The other part was about the GM and analytics and then wanting to hire a GM heavy on analytics over Vrabels guy
Vrabel is actually big on using analytics but not a be all end all and his instincts are important as well

 

[PatsFan2]

Time to separate ourselves from the BB coaching tree. That old patriot way is GONE. Let's start fresh.

Vrabel coached a Team that Drafted A.J. Brown: let's just say this Defensive HC knows how important WR's are.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

Vrabel coached a Team that Drafted A.J. Brown: let's just say this Defensive HC knows how important WR's are.

I did notice that. How involved was Vrabel in that personnel decision to draft brown?

 

[lancerman]

Vrabel coached a Team that Drafted A.J. Brown: let's just say this Defensive HC knows how important WR's are.

He wasn't the GM. This is another problem with the Patriots bubble. Bill was the only HC picking the players. Vrabel wasn't, just like no other HC's are.

 

[Tunescribe]

I used to work for E2G Sports. My friend who started it has connections and sources. I was just told that Vrabel and Pats had a deal in place since last Tuesday. Last Tuesday, Jonathan and Vrabel had a dinner meeting. The deal is done, Vrabel will be the HC. As for people that will come with him, here are the names I am hearing:

Terrell Williams
Tim Kelly
Tommy Rees
Ryan Cowden(GM?)
Tom Quinn
Roman Phifer

My buddy's cousin knows a guy who said the same thing. Go figure!

 

[Mack Herron]

Because of experience and familiarity I expect Kraft will quickly move to hire Vrabel. I hope he brings along an offensive talent to mentor Maye and a GM to run personnel.

 

[Tunescribe]

Time to separate ourselves from the BB coaching tree. That old patriot way is GONE. Let's start fresh.

Vrabel is not from the BB coaching tree.

 

[jdlboot14]

Time to separate ourselves from the BB coaching tree. That old patriot way is GONE. Let's start fresh.

Facts are - pure offensive playcallers rarely turn out to be great HC's... unless they have:
1. a solid experienced hard-nosed DC
AND
2. a veteran / respected / proven GM

The Pats have neither. If Johnson came in now as Pats HC, he'd have a hard time bringing the high quality support staff he'd need to succeed. (Just like Mayo did - being young, and only in one organization)

 

[PatsFan2]

He wasn't the GM. This is another problem with the Patriots bubble. Bill was the only HC picking the players. Vrabel wasn't, just like no other HC's are.

I was basically saying I think he values them.