The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[NFL Mystique]

Vrabel feels like a McDermott type HC. A guy who brings you respectability. Will be tough to play against. Defensive HC. Will maybe win a playoff game or two. But not quite good enough to beat the best coaches.

Johnson feels like a slam dunk hire. A guy who will get more out of Maye. And...offensive HC's are the name of the game these days. The Patriots will get to a point where they need to get over the hump in the postseason. And Vrabel doesn't seem like that guy. Johnson does.

But undoubtedly they will go with Vrabel for comfort, familiarity, and because he has coached. I just think it's a poor reason to name him HC. Owner is too sentimental.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

If true, that would be a Damn Shame. Ownership first needs to hear what Ben Johnson has to say before they make Yet Again another hasty hiring of a familiar old face.

Thinking even further back, it was kind of the same thing with BB. Kraft was familiar with him from his year as an assistant in 1996 (that they made the Super Bowl). Obviously it worked out in hindsight, but giving up the #16 pick for BB like they did seems pretty illogical. Kraft seems to be basing all of his decisions on his relationships with guys who have worked on the team before rather than truly being open to outside guys who have new ideas he’s not used to. And in his position, I guess that makes sense which is why he needs to let it be more of a football decision.

 

[dliverey44]

After his season ends. So, Feb 10.

Officially but they can reach a verbal agreement and hope he doesn't pull a McDaniels

 

[Headcase]

Vrabel only negative might be his OC. If he says it's Josh McD it's gonna be tough . But Vrabel + McD + Saleh with TC McCartney and AVP in reduced roles, while retaining Springer and Wolf could tilt the scales for Vrabel.

I think there is next to no way Salah comes here, the defensive personnel make no sense in his Defense.....even our best defender would be playing out of place in Saleh's zone based scheme.

If Salah coaches as a DC this year he will want a defense that he can turn around quickly to leverage into a other head coaching job; not a multi year rebuild on his side of the ball

 

[XLIX]

To me this goes deeper than Johnson v. Vrabel.

Reportedly, Johnson is going to insist on bringing in his own personnel people - something I very much support - whereas Vrabel would be happy to get the job working with the current people already in place.

I very much prefer the idea of an overhaul.

 

[Toofy]

To me this goes deeper than Johnson v. Vrabel.

Reportedly, Johnson is going to insist on bringing in his own personnel people - something I very much support - whereas Vrabel would be happy to get the job working with the current people already in place.

I very much prefer the idea of an overhaul.

I hope the pats are not too wedded to the idea of Vrabel and will listen in to what Johnson has to say.

My guess is they feel comfy with Vrabel but want to know if Ben Johnson is the next shanahan who can sweep them off the floor and I feel BJ is being propped up by Jonathan .

 

[mike_usagisan]

I really hate these zero-sum arguments. It's not that one is going to be successful and the other is not and if we don't pick right, we're screwed. If you prefer Johnson, say he's at 95 and Vrabel is at 90. Vrabel is still going to be 10x the coach Mayo is. If you prefer Vrabel, put him at 95 and Johnson at 90. Same deal.

Another way to look at it is the choice between Daniels and Maye. Both had good rookie years and both are probably going to be long-term quarterbacks for their franchises.

Rather than get caught up in one is going to be good and the other isn't, let's all just agree that either option is light years ahead of where we would be if we were going into next season with Mayo.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

We have had the worst offense in the NFL the past 5 years, the most boring offense in the nfl the past 5 years. We finally find a franchise QB, and this forum wants another defensive minded head coach. Mike Vrabel doesn’t know diddly poo about offense. Who’s going to develop Drake Maye? Who’s going to develop his WRs? There is an offensive genius available for hire who can actually develop our young QB and make our offense watchable again…yet you guys still want to go with the defensive guy.

It’s amazing some people actually want Vrabel over Johnson

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

It will be Vrabel, with Ryan Cowden doing personnel.

Yeah the only way that Vrabel isn’t named is if Kraft tries getting cute with the contract, which would make no sense since he’s made Bill the highest paid coach for decades. So he doesn’t have a problem with paying for that.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

We have had the worst offense in the NFL the past 5 years, the most boring offense in the nfl the past 5 years. We finally find a franchise QB, and this forum wants another defensive minded head coach. Mike Vrabel doesn’t know diddly poo about offense. Who’s going to develop Drake Maye? Who’s going to develop his WRs? There is an offensive genius available for hire who can actually develop our young QB and make our offense watchable again…yet you guys still want to go with the defensive guy.

It’s amazing some people actually want Vrabel over Johnson

To be fair 2 of Vrabels OCs did become Head Coaches, so if nothing else he can find good coordinators. Arthur Smith and Matt Lafleur

 

[Aussie Patriot]

Mike Vrabel doesn’t know diddly poo about offense

Yet he's been hired this year to work with TE's and OL's...

 

[signbabybrady]

We have had the worst offense in the NFL the past 5 years, the most boring offense in the nfl the past 5 years. We finally find a franchise QB, and this forum wants another defensive minded head coach. Mike Vrabel doesn’t know diddly poo about offense. Who’s going to develop Drake Maye? Who’s going to develop his WRs? There is an offensive genius available for hire who can actually develop our young QB and make our offense watchable again…yet you guys still want to go with the defensive guy.

It’s amazing some people actually want Vrabel over Johnson

What if Vrabel comes with an offensive genius like Josh McDaniels too?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Yet he's been hired this year to work with TE's and OL's...

And he also has the 2nd most career SB receiving TDs in Patriots history (tied with David Givens and Danny Amendola, behind Gronk).

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Why?!? The dude completely ****ing SUCKS.

Johnson hasn't done jack **** Capt.
That much I can tell you without hesitation.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

What if Vrabel comes with an offensive genius like Josh McDaniels too?

I never considered Josh a Genius, he pissed me off on the daily.

 

[zimmy]

I wanted Vrabel last year and still want him. He is a good coach, players respect him, he can rebuild the D in the spirit of previous Patriots teams, and I think can make this team competitive again. He seems to have used his time off to come up with a detailed plan for how he will attack his next role.

My only concern is the OC spot. Josh is a good OC but his scheme is notoriously complicated. Hopefully he’s flexible enough to simplify it and play to Drake’s strengths.

What we also need is a complete overhaul of the front office.

 

[Dec54]

We have had the worst offense in the NFL the past 5 years, the most boring offense in the nfl the past 5 years. We finally find a franchise QB, and this forum wants another defensive minded head coach. Mike Vrabel doesn’t know diddly poo about offense. Who’s going to develop Drake Maye? Who’s going to develop his WRs? There is an offensive genius available for hire who can actually develop our young QB and make our offense watchable again…yet you guys still want to go with the defensive guy.

It’s amazing some people actually want Vrabel over Johnson

Totally agree

 

[signbabybrady]

I never considered Josh a Genius, he pissed me off on the daily.

First I was just attaching the most obvious name to the OC spot we don't know what Vrabel will actually do there yet.

Second Josh's genius and resume was better than BJ's over a decade ago when he first took the Denver job and since then he's only added 3 SB rings as a coordinator to his resume. His failed attempts at HC might be so that he won't get another chance as HC but that doesn't change that as an OC he's up there with anyone.

Let's see BJ win a SB or be a good Head Coach before we start calling him more of a offensive genius than Josh.

 

[Love The Drake]

Totally agree

Agree with this as well.

 

[KCSVEN]

We have had the worst offense in the NFL the past 5 years, the most boring offense in the nfl the past 5 years. We finally find a franchise QB, and this forum wants another defensive minded head coach. Mike Vrabel doesn’t know diddly poo about offense. Who’s going to develop Drake Maye? Who’s going to develop his WRs? There is an offensive genius available for hire who can actually develop our young QB and make our offense watchable again…yet you guys still want to go with the defensive guy.

It’s amazing some people actually want Vrabel over Johnson

Arthur Smith and Lafleur were picked by Vrabel.
Dan Campbell can't be successful? BB wasn't successful? McDermott not successful? They don't call plays.
Tommy Rees is a young, innovative, smart OC touted by Nick Saban so is very much like Ben Johnson and is the #1 name of the possible choices by Vrabel.
What does Johnson know about defense?
The top 2 teams in the NFC are Eagles and Lions. Neither head coach calls plays,
Chiefs, Ravens and Bills: Only 1 of 3 in AFC SB favorites HC calls plays
Out of the top 4 seeds in each conference 6 of 8 have an OC that's not the head coach calling plays.
Out of all playoff teams most don't have the head coach call the plays.
Vrabel has experience as a head coach.

I like Johnson, I also like Vrabel. Not sur why it's amazing to want Vrabel over Johnson.