The Least Valuable Safety

[mgteich]

We have 6 safeties.

Belichick needs to decide in the next hour who will be cut or put on IR. This player could be at any position. Most here would like Butler to stay as the 6th corner, although he is the most obvious choice as the player to be cut. If Dennard is healthy, he will get almost zero reps the rest of the way. After all, with Dennard and Browner out, Butler only played when Ryan was being punished because of a penalty.
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IMHO, the least valuable safety is HARMON (how far he has fallen). Let us look at the six.
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McCOURTY - pro-bowl quality starter

CHUNG - starter, pulled on obvious passing downs

WILSON - the first in on passing downs, top special teamer on several ST units

HARMON - the 2nd man in on passing downs, playing almost no special teams

EBNER - a top special teamer on all 6 ST units, and our dime back

JONES - a top special teamer on all 6 ST units
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SPECIAL TEAMS
Note that 3 of our top four STers are safeties Ebner, Jones and Wilson, with Slater being our #1 STer.
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OPTION ONE
Cut Jones and weaken the Special Teams. Harmon (a serious downgrade) would pick up some of the reps.

OPTION TWO
Cut Harmon. Would we notice any change in play? I expect that Ebner is up to being the #4 safety.

OPTION THREE
Put Ebner on IR. IMHO, this isn't likely if Ebner could be back as late as December.

OPTION FOUR
Keep six safeties, at least until Ebner is back healthy.

 

[luuked]

Butlers fate depends on Dennards situation. I don't think we will cut him before Dennard is really fully fit. Unfortunately, nobody outside Foxboro really knows Dennards status.

I agree about Ebner, he has gotten to valuable to end up on IR just because of a finger injury.

Also, I honestly don't see BB parting ways with Harmon after not even 1.5 seasons. He looked at least serviceable last year. I wonder if in the end we will put somebody surprising on the IR.

 

[supafly]

It seems as though Belichick may wait another couple of days before making these decisions. As of yesterday, he didn't sound like he was going to active either player for tomorrow's game by stating that "we'll make those decisions in the next 48 hrs+."

I've been wondering why so many have assumed all week that 2 players who have played a total of ONE practice with the team would actually see the field for much, if at all of the action?

Tyms isn't seeing the roster in my opinion, unless we have an injury tomorrow night, or Belichick decides to really shake things up. As much as I like the kid, he didn't see any time with Brady, and we seem to be having enough issues with them getting on the same page as it is without throwing another green player into the mix.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I would hate to lose Butler; CBs are a precious commodity, especially for the Patriots since they seem to lose so many to injury and Butler did show a lot in the Pre-season

 

[mgteich]

It seems as though Belichick may wait another couple of days before making these decisions.

Tyms isn't seeing the roster in my opinion, unless we have an injury tomorrow night, or Belichick decides to really shake things up. As much as I like the kid, he didn't see any time with Brady, and we seem to be having enough issues with them getting on the same page as it is without throwing another green player into the mix.

I believe that if Browner is to play, a decision needs to be already made with regard to who is taken off the 53 man roster.

I understand that the decision with regard to Tyms can wait. I agree with you conclusion that he will not make the 53, unless there is an injury tomorrow.

 

[supafly]

http://www.gazettenet.com/home/1381...e-on-brandon-browner-brian-tyms-vs-cincinnati

I believe that if Browner is to play, a decision needs to be already made with regard to who is taken off the 53 man roster.

I understand that the decision with regard to Tyms can wait. I agree with you conclusion that he will not make the 53, unless there is an injury tomorrow.

Please see edited post.

Browner doesn't sound like he was ever really in the mix to play, at least in Belichick's mind.

He mentioned the "48 hrs--plus" window that he had to make the decision (by Monday it sounds like).

Both Browner and Tyms have a grand total of ONE practice with the team. Do you really think this is the week to be experimenting? I don't. That said, I kind of expected Browner to see some 10-15 situational snaps, but it's not looking to be the case.

 

[supafly]

I believe that if Browner is to play, a decision needs to be already made with regard to who is taken off the 53 man roster.

If either were going to play tomorrow, I believe that decision had to be made by 4:00 pm today, although I could be wrong.

 

[supafly]

I would hate to lose Butler; CBs are a precious commodity, especially for the Patriots since they seem to lose so many to injury and Butler did show a lot in the Pre-season

Agreed. I'd much rather make a bit of an exception this season and keep more CBs, in case he's going to be part of our future moving forward into next season+.

 

[mgteich]

Agreed. I'd much rather make a bit of an exception this season and keep more CBs, in case he's going to be part of our future moving forward into next season+.

I agree. We seem to have two players on the team as developmental players, with no 2014 expectations or roles: Moore and Butler.

 

[Brady6]

We have 6 safeties.

Belichick needs to decide in the next hour who will be cut or put on IR. This player could be at any position. Most here would like Butler to stay as the 6th corner, although he is the most obvious choice as the player to be cut. If Dennard is healthy, he will get almost zero reps the rest of the way. After all, with Dennard and Browner out, Butler only played when Ryan was being punished because of a penalty.
========
IMHO, the least valuable safety is HARMON (how far he has fallen). Let us look at the six.
========
McCOURTY - pro-bowl quality starter

CHUNG - starter, pulled on obvious passing downs

WILSON - the first in on passing downs, top special teamer on several ST units

HARMON - the 2nd man in on passing downs, playing almost no special teams

EBNER - a top special teamer on all 6 ST units, and our dime back

JONES - a top special teamer on all 6 ST units
=======
SPECIAL TEAMS
Note that 3 of our top four STers are safeties Ebner, Jones and Wilson, with Slater being our #1 STer.
=========

OPTION ONE
Cut Jones and weaken the Special Teams. Harmon (a serious downgrade) would pick up some of the reps.

OPTION TWO
Cut Harmon. Would we notice any change in play? I expect that Ebner is up to being the #4 safety.

OPTION THREE
Put Ebner on IR. IMHO, this isn't likely if Ebner could be back as late as December.

OPTION FOUR
Keep six safeties, at least until Ebner is back healthy.

Don Jones did not play on Monday and I did not notice any significant difference. I would cut him, Harmon has shown promise and it would be foolish to cut a player with upside for a special teams player that we claimed off waivers.

Nate Ebner has a finger injury, why would he be out until December?

 

[Brady6]

Agreed. I'd much rather make a bit of an exception this season and keep more CBs, in case he's going to be part of our future moving forward into next season+.

Zach Moore will be part of the mix by the second half of the season, he is probably outside of Easley the most promising prospect we drafted in terms of highest ceiling.

 

[Brady6]

It seems as though Belichick may wait another couple of days before making these decisions. As of yesterday, he didn't sound like he was going to active either player for tomorrow's game by stating that "we'll make those decisions in the next 48 hrs+."

I've been wondering why so many have assumed all week that 2 players who have played a total of ONE practice with the team would actually see the field for much, if at all of the action?

Tyms isn't seeing the roster in my opinion, unless we have an injury tomorrow night, or Belichick decides to really shake things up. As much as I like the kid, he didn't see any time with Brady, and we seem to be having enough issues with them getting on the same page as it is without throwing another green player into the mix.

Tyms has not shot in my opinion, he will be fortunate if they sign him the practice squad. He was not as good as many like to believe in the preseason, he did really well against players who are not even in the league for the most part right now. If they were serious about him they would have gave him at least 1 rep with Brady during the preseason.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Tyms has not shot in my opinion, he will be fortunate if they sign him the practice squad. He was not as good as many like to believe in the preseason, he did really well against players who are not even in the league for the most part right now. If they were serious about him they would have gave him at least 1 rep with Brady during the preseason.

You may very well be right, but Tyms played against the same scrubs that Dobson and Lafell did and looked better.

And at this point it seems like we might be desperate enough to produce some kind of offense by giving anyone a shot.

 

[English Patriot]

Chung is pure garbage, had about a good season in his first go round and i'm sorry you don't cut a player and then bring him back if he's starter quality because you never cut him in the first place.

 

[Bruins29]

Chung is pure garbage, had about a good season in his first go round and i'm sorry you don't cut a player and then bring him back if he's starter quality because you never cut him in the first place.

So teams would and should never cut a starting quality player under any circumstances? And no team has?

 

[Brady6]

Chung is pure garbage, had about a good season in his first go round and i'm sorry you don't cut a player and then bring him back if he's starter quality because you never cut him in the first place.

The Patriots never cut Chung he left in free agency. He played his entire 4 year rookie contract.

 

[mgteich]

Chung is pure garbage, had about a good season in his first go round and i'm sorry you don't cut a player and then bring him back if he's starter quality because you never cut him in the first place.

Chung was never cut by the patriots.

 

[mgteich]

Don Jones did not play on Monday and I did not notice any significant difference. I would cut him, Harmon has shown promise and it would be foolish to cut a player with upside for a special teams player that we claimed off waivers.

Nate Ebner has a finger injury, why would he be out until December?

I understand that you do not notice special teamers and consider them unimportant. Jones was hired to play Special Teams. He plays on all four units.

With regard to Ebner, I did not say that he would be out until December. I said that we would keep him on the roster even if he would be out until December. Congrats on your ability to tell how long someone will be out from Belichick's injury reports.

============================
From Reiss

Four units
RB Brandon Bolden
S Nate Ebner
S Don Jones
WR Matthew Slater
LB Chris White
S Tavon Wilson
Three units
DE Michael Buchanan
LB Deontae Skinner

Two units
S Patrick Chung


Ebner and Slater lead the team with six special teams tackles apiece.

 

[Brady6]

I understand that you do not notice special teamers and consider them unimportant. Jones was hired to play Special Teams. He plays on all four units.

With regard to Ebner, I did not say that he would be out until December. I said that we would keep him on the roster even if he would be out until December. Congrats on your ability to tell how long someone will be out from Belichick's injury reports.

============================
From Reiss

Four units
RB Brandon Bolden
S Nate Ebner
S Don Jones
WR Matthew Slater
LB Chris White
S Tavon Wilson
Three units
DE Michael Buchanan
LB Deontae Skinner

Two units
S Patrick Chung


Ebner and Slater lead the team with six special teams tackles apiece.

I can tell you this Don Jones lost the gunner job last season with Miami because of his poor play in that role. He is an average special teams player at best and in comparison to Cole who held a similar role last season he is a significant downgrade. Browner plays specials just an FYI, he is actually a damn good special teams player.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/1/5/2682954/brandon-browner-goes-beastmode-on-special-teams

Just another tidbit from the poster who doesn't understand special teams. I'm not sure how many times you want to make some assertion on my understanding of football only to have me prove that I'm actually more knowledgeable than you on the subject but we can keep doing this if you would like.

 

[captain stone]

The Least Valuable Safety = The Error Repeater.