The Bill megathread (HC at UNC, girlfriend, etc.)

[lancerman]

Every week or so I come in and hit the >> button ; read the last couple posts & the
N feel I’m sufficiently caught up on the dead-horse beating

This is case in point of the inanity…but it goes on both sides of this pointless argument

To take the 4 Q of a SB ( LAST GAME OF YEAR, if I can remind you) after the team lost BOTH SAFETIES to injury in 3 Q [and we’re playing O guys on D] and extrapolate that out to condemn how he built a D for the entire 16 game season plus 2 playoff game…..

Bravo!!!!

A masterful logical progression in search of justifying an agenda !!!

Well that's because you are making a strawman. I didn't condemn how he built the defense for 16 seasons. I said that he had one really great defense in that run that was legitimately the catalyst of the entire Super Bowl where you could argue that they carried the team. I was praising them in that aspect. That was the one time the myth of the early 00's dynasty being defensively driven actually holds true. The other two years the offense was on par with the defense.

My point was, the one time you could say it was a defensive show, even that defense wouldn't rank as one of the all time great defenses in league history. And them collapsing in the Super Bowl and everyone remembering Brady having to make multiple comeback drives while they were blowing it and getting bailed out by a special teams mistakes that set up another Vinatieri game winner is a BIG part of that. People remember the 00 Ravens holding their SB opponent to 7, they remember the 02 Bucs holding the Raiders to a score of 34-9 for 3 quarters until some garbage points in the 4th. They remember the LOB in 2013 pantsing an all time great Broncos offense. People remember the 15 Broncos holding an MVP led offense to 10 points. Hell people think of 2018's Patriots defense more nowadays for great Patriots defenses and that was actually one that wasn't all that great for 16 games.

What you will not see at all in any of my posts is that the 2003 defense is bad or should be condemned for how they were built. Every post I said they were a great defense. You conveniently have to ignore that in multiple posts. Also lol at pretending the "LAST GAME OF THE YEAR" doesn't matter if it's the Super Bowl lol. Really? That's wild.

So.... Bravo you missed the point and your logic fell apart the minute you started typing because you needed to make up an argument I wasn't making. Good show.

 

[signbabybrady]

You can always tell signbabybrady is bothered about what is being posted or losing a debate when he post instagram pictures and quotes to try to clog up the thread and avoid what is being discussed.

I can't lose this debate unless someone is erasing the 12 SBs Belichick has coached in. It's long been over. Belichick is the GOAT. It's amazing how much crap you clog this thread up with though to avoid this fact.

But no matter what you do it comes back to Gatorade baths.

 

[lancerman]

I can't lose this debate unless someone is erasing the 12 SBs Belichick has coached in. It's long been over. Belichick is the GOAT. It's amazing how much crap you clog this thread up with though to avoid this fact.

But no matter what you do it comes back to Gatorade baths.

You lost the debate when it went over 10 pages and you still couldn't admit that Belichick was a bad coach in his 11 seasons without Brady. The rest has just been a humiliation ritual.

 

[signbabybrady]

You lost the debate when it went over 10 pages and you still couldn't admit that Belichick was a bad coach in his 11 seasons without Brady. The rest has just been a humiliation ritual.

Hater

I'd love to watch you make your points to Willie Mac.

 

[signbabybrady]

Well that's because you are making a strawman. I didn't condemn how he built the defense for 16 seasons. I said that he had one really great defense in that run that was legitimately the catalyst of the entire Super Bowl where you could argue that they carried the team. I was praising them in that aspect. That was the one time the myth of the early 00's dynasty being defensively driven actually holds true. The other two years the offense was on par with the defense.

My point was, the one time you could say it was a defensive show, even that defense wouldn't rank as one of the all time great defenses in league history. And them collapsing in the Super Bowl and everyone remembering Brady having to make multiple comeback drives while they were blowing it and getting bailed out by a special teams mistakes that set up another Vinatieri game winner is a BIG part of that. People remember the 00 Ravens holding their SB opponent to 7, they remember the 02 Bucs holding the Raiders to a score of 34-9 for 3 quarters until some garbage points in the 4th. They remember the LOB in 2013 pantsing an all time great Broncos offense. People remember the 15 Broncos holding an MVP led offense to 10 points. Hell people think of 2018's Patriots defense more nowadays for great Patriots defenses and that was actually one that wasn't all that great for 16 games.

What you will not see at all in any of my posts is that the 2003 defense is bad or should be condemned for how they were built. Every post I said they were a great defense. You conveniently have to ignore that in multiple posts. Also lol at pretending the "LAST GAME OF THE YEAR" doesn't matter if it's the Super Bowl lol. Really? That's wild.

So.... Bravo you missed the point and your logic fell apart the minute you started typing because you needed to make up an argument I wasn't making. Good show.

Progress. Your at least willing to admit defense exists lol. But I suppose Brady made them a great.

 

[Jim Beankie]

That’s not exactly true either. We don’t know how Lombardi is as a head coach without a HOF QB because his time in the league was cut short and he never got the chance to coach in that scenario.

I mean it's absolutely true. Doesn't mean my post wasn't a joke.

 

[sb1]

As Bill’s legacy continues to dwindle the cult is desperately grasping for anything they can. Understandable.

 

[sb1]

You lost the debate when it went over 10 pages and you still couldn't admit that Belichick was a bad coach in his 11 seasons without Brady. The rest has just been a humiliation ritual.

Bill was an atrocious head coach sans Brady. Legacy is shaped by perception and that’s a big part of his story now as is his faceplanting at UNC. If Bill is smart he would resign, let his son take the reins and retire.

The PFHOF voters are watching and shaking their heads…

 

[signbabybrady]

Bill was an atrocious head coach sans Brady. Legacy is shaped by perception and that’s a big part of his story now as is his faceplanting at UNC. If Bill is smart he would resign, let his son take the reins and retire.

The PFHOF voters are watching and shaking their heads…

Forget what the Biased PFHOF thinks. Do you think Bill should be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

 

[sb1]

Remember this guy? What happened to his work ethic?

It must be that everything is going so well at his new gig that he doesn't need to put in any extra time to figure things out.

Otherwise he'd be bearing down on his work instead of being seen flying out to exclusive resort towns just to chase ****y, right?

A CFB coach surely doesn't want to project an image of him wasting time chasing ****y so his players also bear down too, right?

He really has become the noise that he demanded his players ignore.

 

[lancerman]

Progress. Your at least willing to admit defense exists lol. But I suppose Brady made them a great.

Brady won Super Bowls with at least 3 seperate defenses that had not a single common player on them.

How many of those defenses even made a conderence title game without Brady.

The rest of the team matters. The QB matters exponentially more.

Concepts you can't grasp

 

[JoeSixPat]

oof - NY Post has a pretty savage hit piece

There's speculation that the latest lawsuit alleging he was illegally hired may give them an out on his contract if they want to go in that direction at the end of the season.

Bill Belichick’s UNC coaching stint sours with losses, lawsuit and all eyes on girlfriend Jordon Hudson

Blow out losses, a UNC lawsuit and distractions from Jordon Hudson on the sidelines have put the former Patriots coach in the line of fire as fans question what’s next for UNC.

nypost.com

As bizarre as BB's behavior has been there's no one surrounding the UNC program that expected this to be a one year turnaround

I guess the only question is, are they getting the type of morale boost for the program they expected from BB when they made him coach, knowing that in a multi-year rebuild, the feeling that the program is going in the right direction is paramount for the fans.

With that in mind, do the players and fans feel like BB is focused on winning? Or other things?

If the answer, even after one season, is clearly "other things" they may indeed want to cut him loose.

The bottom line is that there's no question BB has tarnished his own legacy.

 

[sb1]

oof - NY Post has a pretty savage hit piece

There's speculation that the latest lawsuit alleging he was illegally hired may give them an out on his contract if they want to go in that direction at the end of the season.

Bill Belichick’s UNC coaching stint sours with losses, lawsuit and all eyes on girlfriend Jordon Hudson

Blow out losses, a UNC lawsuit and distractions from Jordon Hudson on the sidelines have put the former Patriots coach in the line of fire as fans question what’s next for UNC.

nypost.com

As bizarre as BB's behavior has been there's no one surrounding the UNC program that expected this to be a one year turnaround

I guess the only question is, are they getting the type of morale boost for the program they expected from BB when they made him coach, knowing that in a multi-year rebuild, the feeling that the program is going in the right direction is paramount for the fans.

With that in mind, do the players and fans feel like BB is focused on winning? Or other things?

If the answer, even after one season, is clearly "other things" they may indeed want to cut him loose.

The bottom line is that there's no question BB has tarnished his own legacy.

“She’s single handedly making Bill look bad – he’s no longer the GOAT,” another source told The Post.

Yep that GOAT ship has sailed. All by his own doing.

 

[Bill Lee]

You lost the debate when it went over 10 pages and you still couldn't admit that Belichick was a bad coach in his 11 seasons without Brady. The rest has just been a humiliation ritual.

As Bill’s legacy continues to dwindle the cult is desperately grasping for anything they can. Understandable.

The debate was lost when even the really mild suggestion that Bill lost his fastball after 2019 was deemed unacceptable to the Cult of Bill.

Indeed now his legacy erodes day by day as his new CFB team looks like crap and instead of working on that he's out chasing ****y.

For late-period Bill it's not No Days Off it's Let Me Get My Rocks Off, and its Hos Before Bros...

As Carton said the vajayjay is undefeated, and it's taking Bill down big time.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The debate was lost when even the really mild suggestion that Bill lost his fastball after 2019 was deemed unacceptable to the Cult of Bill.

Indeed now his legacy erodes day by day as his new CFB team looks like crap and instead of working on that he's out chasing ****y.

For late-period Bill it's not No Days Off it's Let Me Get My Rocks Off, and its Hos Before Bros...

As Carton said the vajayjay is undefeated, and it's taking Bill down big time.

I thought it was lost when they tried to pretend that Wolf was the one calling the shots during Belichick's last 4 seasons.

 

[Huckleberry1]

A poster on Reddit said it best imo "Bill Belichick would have fired Bill Belichick after 22 seasons."

 

[lancerman]

The debate was lost when even the really mild suggestion that Bill lost his fastball after 2019 was deemed unacceptable to the Cult of Bill.

Indeed now his legacy erodes day by day as his new CFB team looks like crap and instead of working on that he's out chasing ****y.

For late-period Bill it's not No Days Off it's Let Me Get My Rocks Off, and its Hos Before Bros...

As Carton said the vajayjay is undefeated, and it's taking Bill down big time.

Once someone shows that they are incapable of acknowledging basic facts, you can no longer take them seriously.

Bill Belichick having an 11 season sample size without Brady that is abysmal are essentially table stakes. If agreeing to that point is something that you refuse to do after the better part of a year and even have had a dozen or so posters directly call out that you always deflect and never address that point, you can't really be considered to be a genuine good faith actor in the conversation. If that is too much for someone to reckon with, this conversation isn't for them

A massive problem with the Bill Belichick is never wrong cult is that they spent 20 years being gaslit that the Patriots were more than an NFL team. This idea that they weren't actually as good as their talent or obvious great players on the roster. That there was this magical genius coach who put in a system where they could input anything the coach wanted and it would lead to wins. So a lot of fans who have parasocial relationships with the team wanted it to be more than just a football team with a great QB as the centerpiece and a smart X's and O's coach who could find a few diamonds in the rough that played the right roles. No it was a sacred system. It's why when Butler was benched in 2017, some fans couldn't bring themselves to say that it was the wrong decision. Certain posters on here would argue "it's Bill's systems and he needs to run it his way regardless of the outcome or we disrupt the winning". AKA "if Bill does it, it's not the wrong decision; if we lose a Super Bowl doing it, it's worth it for Belichick and the system to be maintained. It's the same reason this was the only fanbase that was somewhat chill about the coaching pissing off the HOF QB and letting him run off to another team. Because as long as Bill and his system was here, the glory would stay. Only that didn't happen. Same way even when things started looking bad you had people going off about how "as long as Bill Belichick is here, the team will always have a very high floor even in the worst times". Only the team bottomed out by the end and was a total disaster.

So now that all those myths don't really hold weight and most evidence suggests we were just really fortunate to have the QB we did and a few other standout players, the blame game is coming on. Brady himself said he left over friction with Belichick. The cult won't ever directly acknowledge that and will post out of context quotes of Brady praising Bill. He still said he left over Belichick. Kraft saying the Butler decision was personal gets glossed over. The collaboration is blamed for any misteps the team had in the 4 years Belichick was here without Brady. Now that UNC sucks the same people are pretending that UNC was a historically bad team instead of the middle of the pack team it actually is and that Bill isn't becoming a huge joke in college right now. They are even flirting with blaming players because they can leave and have NIL.

Anyways, hard to feel bad. Must be distressing placing that much of your identity in some myth about the team that wasn't even real and having to defend it at all costs while the guy at the center of the conversation has no qualms burning his reputation down because it's his way or the high way.

 

[lancerman]

I thought it was lost when they tried to pretend that Wolf was the one calling the shots during Belichick's last 4 seasons.

Wolf has become the biggest Rorshach test for the franchise. With team building everything bad is always him and everything good is someone else. When everyone loved Mac Jones after year one the story was about how super genius Bill Belichick played the entire league for fools once again by staying right at his spot in the draft, watching other teams make reaches and trades, then he took his guy. Once people soured on Mac by year 3, it was Wolf forcing him on Belichick

 

[Bill Lee]

I guess the only question is, are they getting the type of morale boost for the program they expected from BB when they made him coach, knowing that in a multi-year rebuild, the feeling that the program is going in the right direction is paramount for the fans.

The NYP article quoted a UNC student voicing concerns about how this projects onto their experience:

UNC students who had been excited about Belichick’s arrival say they are now frustrated.

“He’s too worried about talking to his girlfriend on the sidelines,” one student who works near the Kenan Stadium told The Post, asking to remain anonymous.

“It’s frustrating to watch as a UNC student – our school is giving him so much money. We’re putting in millions of dollars for him to coach. It’s a professional role and he’s treating it like it’s nothing.”

This echoes all the things we're saying here. He's distracted by the vajayjay. He's not paying enough attention to his job.

The team stinks, and he's not seen as doing anything to fix it.

Instead he's being seen as turning the program into a circus, as another student states.

With that in mind, do the players and fans feel like BB is focused on winning? Or other things?

If the answer, even after one season, is clearly "other things" they may indeed want to cut him loose.

I don't think the lawsuit about him being hired behind closed doors will stick, but I do hope UNC has a contractual out because I don't see any upside to keeping Bill and his merry band of grifters around for next season.

The bottom line is that there's no question BB has tarnished his own legacy.

The girlfriend thing on its own might have been something he could manage, but clearly he doesn't even see it as a problem.

Also the NYP piece has two different sources accusing him of doing "nothing" which is far more damaging than chasing ****y, IMO.

In an alternate world he would have figured out in the off-season that Jordon was being a distraction and told her to stay off the sidelines and would let himself be seen putting in extra effort coaching up players during their off-week.

But nope, he clearly has lost the plot to the point UNC students feel justified calling him out for doing nothing for their program.

It's clear various Patriots fans are far more strongly invested in Bill's legacy than Bill himself is. Late-period Bill just wants to grab the cash and get laid, and grifters like Jordon Hudson and Mike Lombardi are more than willing to leverage that legacy for a big payday.

 

[Gumby]

Once someone shows that they are incapable of acknowledging basic facts, you can no longer take them seriously.

Bill Belichick having an 11 season sample size without Brady that is abysmal are essentially table stakes. If agreeing to that point is something that you refuse to do after the better part of a year and even have had a dozen or so posters directly call out that you always deflect and never address that point, you can't really be considered to be a genuine good faith actor in the conversation. If that is too much for someone to reckon with, this conversation isn't for them

A massive problem with the Bill Belichick is never wrong cult is that they spent 20 years being gaslit that the Patriots were more than an NFL team. This idea that they weren't actually as good as their talent or obvious great players on the roster. That there was this magical genius coach who put in a system where they could input anything the coach wanted and it would lead to wins. So a lot of fans who have parasocial relationships with the team wanted it to be more than just a football team with a great QB as the centerpiece and a smart X's and O's coach who could find a few diamonds in the rough that played the right roles. No it was a sacred system. It's why when Butler was benched in 2017, some fans couldn't bring themselves to say that it was the wrong decision. Certain posters on here would argue "it's Bill's systems and he needs to run it his way regardless of the outcome or we disrupt the winning". AKA "if Bill does it, it's not the wrong decision; if we lose a Super Bowl doing it, it's worth it for Belichick and the system to be maintained. It's the same reason this was the only fanbase that was somewhat chill about the coaching pissing off the HOF QB and letting him run off to another team. Because as long as Bill and his system was here, the glory would stay. Only that didn't happen. Same way even when things started looking bad you had people going off about how "as long as Bill Belichick is here, the team will always have a very high floor even in the worst times". Only the team bottomed out by the end and was a total disaster.

So now that all those myths don't really hold weight and most evidence suggests we were just really fortunate to have the QB we did and a few other standout players, the blame game is coming on. Brady himself said he left over friction with Belichick. The cult won't ever directly acknowledge that and will post out of context quotes of Brady praising Bill. He still said he left over Belichick. Kraft saying the Butler decision was personal gets glossed over. The collaboration is blamed for any misteps the team had in the 4 years Belichick was here without Brady. Now that UNC sucks the same people are pretending that UNC was a historically bad team instead of the middle of the pack team it actually is and that Bill isn't becoming a huge joke in college right now. They are even flirting with blaming players because they can leave and have NIL.

Anyways, hard to feel bad. Must be distressing placing that much of your identity in some myth about the team that wasn't even real and having to defend it at all costs while the guy at the center of the conversation has no qualms burning his reputation down because it's his way or the high way.

Sorry, I won’t be drawn into a useless debate other than to say the guy who accuses me of a strawman changed my words from „16 games“ ( obviously meaning THAT OBE [ONE] SEASON) in to 16 SEASONS just so he could go on w a specious argument.

You said BB in his greatest D season had to be rescued by Tom. I’m saying the coach is the only one who could have pulled off the D they did have that game. As those O players playing D practiced back in week 4 at it. And you‘re then ignoring 18 3/4 games of work to make some silly point about 4Q of a SB.

That SB was rescued by BOTH Tom s heroics & BB foresight, planning, player selection and development. You can never split the atom. They are both GOATs even if he got old over 60 and maybe should have known when to quit. If TB had played one more year as a shell of himself, would that take him out of GOAT territory ?
Not really interested in this debate except if I’m misquoted or something is so outrageous it has to be challenged.
Peace - Out.

I’ll relook in a week.