The 2013 NFL Combine Thread

[manxman2601]

4.62 unofficially. Not bad at all, but not nearly what he was hyped up to be by many.

Absolutely amazed he only ran a 4.7 official. He plays so much faster.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Coulda, shoulda woulda? Not sure if you're being serious. Tavon is already going higher than Moe and thats not even a question, he ran himself out of the Pats range yesterday. Nobody has any doubts about his lateral agility and thats probably why he didn't run. Moe looked good everywhere yesterday but that 4.7 is going to scare a lot of teams away.

There is no doubt Austin will go much higher and I don't have a problem with that. I'm not saying Moe is a better player, should be drafter higher or should be drafted at all, I just think he is a good option to look at later in the draft as a legitimate slot WR, which Austin isn't. And Austin chose not to compete, if you are the best, prove it. I hate when guys only run certain drills because it shows me they aren't there to compete, and thats not just Austin. Some of my favorite guys (Hunter) annoyed me by not going through all the drills. But for a guy who has a much lower top end speed, a slower 10 yard split and is 3" taller and 30lbs heavier to have a better 20-yard shuttle time, it must say he has freaky change of direction ability and can get in and out of cuts insanely well.

Including the Patriots. We don't draft 4.7 WR's. We barely draft 4.5 ones.

He is probably a 7th rounder/UDFA anyway. And in the end who cares about a 4.7? Anquan Bolden ran a 4.71 as an outside WR where speed is much more important. In the scheme of things there is absolutely no difference between a 4.65 and a 4.7 when guys are in full pads and on the line, and the best slot WR in football ran a 4.65.

 

[manxman2601]

There is no doubt Austin will go much higher and I don't have a problem with that. I'm not saying Moe is a better player, should be drafter higher or should be drafted at all, I just think he is a good option to look at later in the draft as a legitimate slot WR, which Austin isn't. And Austin chose not to compete, if you are the best, prove it. I hate when guys only run certain drills because it shows me they aren't there to compete, and thats not just Austin. Some of my favorite guys (Hunter) annoyed me by not going through all the drills. But for a guy who has a much lower top end speed, a slower 10 yard split and is 3" taller and 30lbs heavier to have a better 20-yard shuttle time, it must say he has freaky change of direction ability and can get in and out of cuts insanely well.



He is probably a 7th rounder/UDFA anyway. And in the end who cares about a 4.7? Anquan Bolden ran a 4.71 as an outside WR where speed is much more important. In the scheme of things there is absolutely no difference between a 4.65 and a 4.7 when guys are in full pads and on the line, and the best slot WR in football ran a 4.65.

Judging by the past, BB clearly does. Yes he traded for Welker, but he had actual NFL film on him. If you look through the draftees and prospects like tiquan Underwood, Salas etc, they all run much faster than 4.7. Not saying that won't change, but the track record is what the track record is.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

I have posted this before, but people lose their mind about statistics that don't matter during the combine.

There is remarkably little correlation between short shuttle speed and nfl success for wide wr's. If there was, you would see the players with top times have good nfl success. That is not the case

2011 top 5 Austin Pettis 3.88, Jeffery Maehl 3.94, Dane Sanzenbacher 3.97, Terrence Toliver 4.03 and Cecil Shorts 4.07.

2010 Top 5 Blair White, Scott Long, Emmanuel Sannders, Stephen Roberts and Andre Roberts.

2009 Kevin Ogletree, Kenny McKinley, Tiquan Underwood, Brian Hartline, Johnny Knox.

2008 Arman Shields 3.96, Andre Caldwell,Harry Douglas, Ryan Grice- Mullen, Jaymar Johnson 4.18

2007 Mike Mason, Anthony Gonzallez, Paul Thompson, Chris Davis Chansi Stuckey.

Meanwhile, some very successful NFL wr's have had poor scores:
AJ Green (19th rank) 4.21, Julio Jones (25th rank) 4.25, Stevie Johnson (13) 4.26, Jordy Nelson (26th rank) 4.35, Sidney Rice (30th) 4.34, Marques Colston (32nd rank) 4.44.

There simply is not cut-off number like there is 40 times (4.7+ is almost always a deal breaker for a wr).

 

[Wilfork#75]

I have posted this before, but people lose their mind about statistics that don't matter during the combine.

There is remarkably little correlation between short shuttle speed and nfl success for wide wr's. If there was, you would see the players with top times have good nfl success. That is not the case

2011 top 5 Austin Pettis 3.88, Jeffery Maehl 3.94, Dane Sanzenbacher 3.97, Terrence Toliver 4.03 and Cecil Shorts 4.07.

2010 Top 5 Blair White, Scott Long, Emmanuel Sannders, Stephen Roberts and Andre Roberts.

2009 Kevin Ogletree, Kenny McKinley, Tiquan Underwood, Brian Hartline, Johnny Knox.

2008 Arman Shields 3.96, Andre Caldwell,Harry Douglas, Ryan Grice- Mullen, Jaymar Johnson 4.18

2007 Mike Mason, Anthony Gonzallez, Paul Thompson, Chris Davis Chansi Stuckey.

Meanwhile, some very successful NFL wr's have had poor scores:
AJ Green (19th rank) 4.21, Julio Jones (25th rank) 4.25, Stevie Johnson (13) 4.26, Jordy Nelson (26th rank) 4.35, Sidney Rice (30th) 4.34, Marques Colston (32nd rank) 4.44.

There simply is not cut-off number like there is 40 times (4.7+ is almost always a deal breaker for a wr).

You are comparing outside WR's though, its a completely different position. This guy is purely a 100% slot guy, where agility and change of direction are much more important. For an outside guy 4.7 is terrible, but in the slot it is meaningless. And this is a 7th/UDFA guy we are talking about here, he is likely a practice squad candidate.

 

[TFB*]

If the Jests draft C Patterson, I will be very angry. Not because I think we have a chance (we dont), but because he can be deadly as a gadget guy from day 1. When and if he develops into an outside receiver, which I think he will, he can be one of the best in the league. Has all the tools, just needs to develop a little. Only one year of D1 college ball and he absolutely dominated the physical SEC with an inaccurate QB. Raw but extremely talented.

Hes a nightmare in the open field. Too quick for safeties, backers and most corners. For the corners that can catch him, hes too big and physical . He can take it to the house any time he gets a touch. Vision, speed and cuts are ridiculous for a 6 ft 3 200+ pounder. YAC MONSTER.

Hes much more dynamic with the ball in his hands than CJ, AJ, Fitzy, Green and Jones. Hes like Tavon Austin but big and physical. There was a punt return highlight I saw where he makes a few people miss, turns on the burners to the outside and BLASTS the defender along the sideline when he knows he has no more room to cutback.

Kid can be very, very special and I would hate to see him develop into a great WR with the Jets.

 

[manxman2601]

If the Jests draft C Patterson, I will be very angry. Not because I think we have a chance (we dont), but because he can be deadly as a gadget guy from day 1. When and if he develops into an outside receiver, which I think he will, he can be one of the best in the league. Has all the tools, just needs to develop a little. Only one year of D1 college ball and he absolutely dominated the physical SEC with an inaccurate QB. Raw but extremely talented.

Hes a nightmare in the open field. Too quick for safeties, backers and most corners. For the corners that can catch him, hes too big and physical . He can take it to the house any time he gets a touch. Vision, speed and cuts are ridiculous for a 6 ft 3 200+ pounder. YAC MONSTER.

Hes much more dynamic with the ball in his hands than CJ, AJ, Fitzy, Green and Jones. Hes like Tavon Austin but big and physical. There was a punt return highlight I saw where he makes a few people miss, turns on the burners to the outside and BLASTS the defender along the sideline when he knows he has no more room to cutback.

Kid can be very, very special and I would hate to see him develop into a great WR with the Jets.

I feel the same way about the Jets and Ziggy Ansah. Hopefully they'll go QB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Including the Patriots. We don't draft 4.7 WR's. We barely draft 4.5 ones.

Manx - While this is true, Moe DID have a very good 10 yard split at 1.57. To me, when added to the 10'-0" Broad jump and 36" vertical, you've got yourself a guy who is very good off the line. Which means that should get separation. And that separation, along with his short area quickness, should make him a valuable target in the middle of the field... What we probably won't see from him is a long of down field receptions. But that isn't his game.. Which is fine. And it might be what the Pats are looking for late in the draft or as a UDFA.

 

[TFB*]

I feel the same way about the Jets and Ziggy Ansah. Hopefully they'll go QB.

I dont think Ansah gets past the Lions, at least I hope not. Keep that guy out of the AFC East please. Hes a monster. The sky is the limit.

Manx, what do you think about Cornelius Washington? Hes pegged as a 4-5 rounder but I feel like he could go as early as 2nd round if not 3rd. Impressive combine thus far and Lane Johnson and Fisher said he was the hardest prospect to block in the senior bowl practices.

 

[JackBauer]

Swearinger talking up the Patriots? Make it happen!

 

[DaBruinz]

Seems Keenan Allen gets too easily discounted

Kind of hard to count a guy who is injured and hasn't recovered from a PCL strain that occurred last October. He's got red flags regarding that knee and his ankle that had surgery on it last spring.

 

[tonyto3690]

I hate Austin getting so much publicity. Was really hoping he'd drop to our second round pick, but now there is no way that happens just because some team will go crazy about his speed.

Also really hope Patton drops to our third round pick, but don't see that happening anymore. He's basically Brandon Lloyd with a higher upside.

 

[DaBruinz]

I hate Austin getting so much publicity. Was really hoping he'd drop to our second round pick, but now there is no way that happens just because some team will go crazy about his speed.

Also really hope Patton drops to our third round pick, but don't see that happening anymore. He's basically Brandon Lloyd with a higher upside.

No offense but there was never any hope of Austin dropping to the Pats 2nd round pick short of him getting injured..

 

[stelfans]

Im gonna be so frickin dissapointed when Swearinger and Hopkins go to another team its not even funny.
Make it happen Bill!!

 

[rabidfireweasel]

You are comparing outside WR's though, its a completely different position. This guy is purely a 100% slot guy, where agility and change of direction are much more important. For an outside guy 4.7 is terrible, but in the slot it is meaningless. And this is a 7th/UDFA guy we are talking about here, he is likely a practice squad candidate.

I am not comparing anything. I am stating that the is little correlation with having a good shuttle time and being a productive nfl wr.

If you look at my list, the only people who are remotely useful are either big and quick and not too slow(Cecil Shorts 6'0 205 and better than 4.6 and Brian Hartline, 6'2" and better thand 4.6) or quick and fast ( Andre Roberts+ Emmanuel Sanders run in the 4.4x range).

I know if theory, straight line speed shouldn't matter for slot wr's but it does.
Please list all the 4.7 wr's who are playing well in the NFL. The answer is Anquan Boldin, who was smoking off an injury, and well....

 

[DaBruinz]

So, who do you all feel are the 5-tech types of D-linemen who might be available for that position next to Wilfork.

I typically look for the 6'4+, 300+ lbs, 34"+ arms, good 10 yard split,

 

[BlackFrancis]

So, who do you all feel are the 5-tech types of D-linemen who might be available for that position next to Wilfork.

I typically look for the 6'4+, 300+ lbs, 34"+ arms, good 10 yard split,

Still need to see the three cone times but two potential under the radar fits might be Nick Williams from Samford and the kid from UNH, Jared Smith.

 

[manxman2601]

So, who do you all feel are the 5-tech types of D-linemen who might be available for that position next to Wilfork.

I typically look for the 6'4+, 300+ lbs, 34"+ arms, good 10 yard split,

Kapron Lewis Moore is the best 5-tech fit although he's going to have to be red-shirted I imagine.

BTW, do you know about this spreadsheet from Mike Loyko. All the combine numbers laid out.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AseLAGMydisldGJjNXlRd0JVdjdlaklpeDdWRjE4SHc#gid=0

 

[patsfaninpa]

So, who do you all feel are the 5-tech types of D-linemen who might be available for that position next to Wilfork.

I typically look for the 6'4+, 300+ lbs, 34"+ arms, good 10 yard split,

Armond Armstead is 6'4" 289lb. Give him a good off-season S&C program with a lot of creatine. And, there's your guy. I'd like to get additional inside pressure from a de that can slide inside for our nickel package. Datone Jones - DE - UCLA. And, I'm sure as hell kicking the tires on Dwight Freeney. I'm going for broke. We need to be able to get after the qb. Brady's extension allows us to keep Welker and Talib. Allows us to deal Mallett. Gonna be a fun off-season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Armond Armstead is 6'4" 289lb. Give him a good off-season S&C program with a lot of creatine. And, there's your guy. I'd like to get additional inside pressure from a de that can slide inside for our nickel package. Datone Jones - DE - UCLA. And, I'm sure as hell kicking the tires on Dwight Freeney. I'm going for broke. We need to be able to get after the qb. Brady's extension allows us to keep Welker and Talib. Allows us to deal Mallett. Gonna be a fun off-season.

I got "yelled" at for thinking that Armstead who is 6'4 2/8" and 298 would be a 5-Tech guy even though he didn't play that position in college.

That's why I was asking about potential draft picks as I didn't see any of them that seemed to fit that mold. And I don't know of any Free Agents that fit that mold either...