Tell my again why Woodley wouldn't be a good fit at OLB?

[sebman2112]

get off my **** for a second just because I proved your stupid assesment of Woodley playing ILB in high school as basis for him being one in the nfl after playing 4 years of DE rushing the passer every play as stupid

I didn't say Woodley's playing ILB in HS was the bases for my thinking he could play ILB. I just used that because you said he'll never play ILB. Also, what did you not understand when I said he played 2 years at OLB, not four years at DE...

Oh, and you can keep ignoring it but I'm still waiting for you to find the post where I said Carriker would make a good LB....

 

[hobbsownscoles]

I didn't say Woodley's playing ILB in HS was the bases for my thinking he could play ILB. I just used that because you said he'll never play ILB. Also, what did you not understand when I said he played 2 years at OLB, not four years at DE...

Oh, and you can keep ignoring it but I'm still waiting for you to find the post where I said Carriker would make a good LB....

Quit ignoring the post where I told you to get off my ****

 

[sebman2112]

I'm not you, so its no skin off my nose, but Box of Rocks gets a free pass concerning his opinions due to his seniority. There is a heirchy. People have seen only a very little of you (300 some posts) so right now we are kind of getting used to your posting style, what kind of poster you are, etc.

I would have stuck around over at ESPN where I have 1693 post but that place got boring. Plus trolls come on the board all the time, which can be pretty annoying.

 

[hobbsownscoles]

I would have stuck around over at ESPN where I have 1693 post but that place got boring. Plus trolls come on the board all the time, which can be pretty annoying.

I still don't understand how you people can spend that much time on internet message boards

 

[sebman2112]

Quit ignoring the post where I told you to get off my ****

How am I on your ****? You claimed I said something I didn't, then fallowed that up by making a somewhat non-important statement, that added nothing to the conversation.

Still trying to find where I said Carriker would make a good LB conversion.....just a hint you arent going to find it

 

[hobbsownscoles]

How am I on your ****? You claimed I said something I didn't, then fallowed that up by making a somewhat non-important statement, that added nothing to the conversation.

Still trying to find where I said Carriker would make a good LB conversion.....just a hint you arent going to find it

my comment did have relevance because i was commenting on how high school positions means nothing. So get some fresh air or something and step away from the computer for a couple minutes with your dumbass ideas

 

[sebman2112]

I still don't understand how you people can spend that much time on internet message boards

I still don't understand how someone clearly lacking any discernable intellect operates a PC

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Previous Campus numbers for Woodley & Bradley:
Woodley:
Campus: 4.62 in the 40-yard dash … 355-pound bench press … 35-inch vertical jump … 32 7/8-inch arm length … 9 7/8-inch hands.
Bradley:
Campus: 4.71 in the 40-yard dash … 330-pound bench press … 32-inch vertical jump … 32 1/8-inch arm length … 9¼-inch hands.

Nice, but hardly germane, old numbers are just that, old.

Also, Woodley was an ILB in HS, converted to DE his freshman year at Michigan, played OLB for two years, then converted back to DE his senior year, so he has plenty of experience at LB.

Considering the fallowing I would like to know again just how Woodley had a dissapointing senior campaign?

"Woodley became the first Wolverine to win the Lombardi Award (top lineman) and Ted Hendricks Award (top defensive end) in 2006. He was a consensus first-team All-American and was named Rivals.com National Defensive Player of the Year. Elected co-captain, he led the team with 16.5 stops for losses and 12 sacks. He collected 36 tackles (28 solos) and recovered four fumbles, returning one for a touchdown. He also caused four fumbles."

Thank you for the background, I have a recollection of reading comments in more than one place expressing disappointment in Woodley's senior campaign, this clarifies the record.

Also...

"In 49 games at Michigan, Woodley started 33 times. He recorded 177 tackles (129 solos) and ranks second in school history with 25 sacks for minus-228 yards and 50.5 stops for losses totaling 286 yards. He caused 10 fumbles, recovered four others, including one that he returned 54 yards for a touchdown and had five pass deflections."

Just for comparison here's Bradley's numbers:

"In 43 games at Nebraska, Bradley started 29 times. He finished with 175 tackles (94 solos), four sacks for minus-31 yards and 25 stops for losses totaling 75 yards. He registered 21 quarterback pressures, deflected three passes and returned an interception 43 yards for a touchdown. He recovered four fumbles and had three forced fumbles."

Prior injuries:

Woodley:
"2005: Sat out the Northwestern game (Oct. 29) and saw limited action vs. Ohio State due to an arm contusion.

2007: Suffered a hamstring pull during Senior Bowl practices (Jan. 23)."

Bradley:
"2004: Left the Baylor game at halftime with a left knee sprain.

2005: Missed the final seven games after suffering a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee during the third quarter of the Texas Tech (Oct. 8) game."

Their numbers would appear to be comparible given the different positions played.

Again, I want people to realize I want Woodley for SILB, and I want him for his run stuffing/tackling ability/pass rush/and mean streak. I don't wan't Woodley to play WILB. I think Woodley would be a better version of Ted Johnson on the inside.

My dear sir, we both agree that Woodley is a reasonable LB conversion prospect and I would be willing to see how he developed as an ILB even though I believe his best position to be 4-3 end. Where we seem to differ is the relative value of a LB conversion project, presumably a late first or a trade down into round two, vs. a comparable linebacker with prototypical measurables who is presumed to be ranked no higher than the late second.

If Woods, who came out of the same program, was limited to Special Teams in his first year (and inactive for half the regular season), it seems reasonable to expect Woodley to have a similar start. You may have watched Woodley enough to project how well he'll adapt as an ILB, I have only his brief play in the 7-on-7 & 11-on-11 sessions of the Senior Bowl practices and the write-ups. I'm not adverse to spending picks when the price looks right, but a day one pick who has two major transitions before him (one to the NFL and two to a new position) is buying a pig in a poke and hoping it doesn't meow.

Now I disagree with P-80 regarding any "pass" for my having a longer posting history, if anyone cares to disagree with some semblance of courtesy I see no problem. I would appreciate a little more specificity if you do have a problem with my numbers. "BOR was somewhat selective with the numbers he used, so they would support his arguements" is a statement and not a discussion. I might note that indiscriminate use of all available numbers does little to develop an argument, one should be selective for clarity's sake.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Now I disagree with P-80 regarding any "pass" for my having a longer posting history, if anyone cares to disagree with some semblance of courtesy I see no problem.

wrong choice of words .... what I meant to say is that the regulars I'm used to.

As far as sebman: "People have seen only a very little of you (300 some posts) so right now we are kind of getting used to your posting style, what kind of poster you are, etc."

I think disagreements should always be civil, but most certainly between a new poster versus a older one.

I got no problem with disagreements; I disagree with everybody at one time or another. That is what makes it fun.

 

[sebman2112]

wrong choice of words .... what I meant to say is that the regulars I'm used to.

As far as sebman: "People have seen only a very little of you (300 some posts) so right now we are kind of getting used to your posting style, what kind of poster you are, etc."

I think disagreements should always be civil, but most certainly between a new poster versus a older one.

I got no problem with disagreements; I disagree with everybody at one time or another. That is what makes it fun.

I'm the same as you two, but I did get a little annoyed last night. I've had a bad tooth ache for a few days now, the arguement I was having with that other guy was a little contentious, and he claimed I have said things I didn't so I was a little more touchy than usual.

 

[sebman2112]

I would appreciate a little more specificity if you do have a problem with my numbers. "BOR was somewhat selective with the numbers he used, so they would support his arguements" is a statement and not a discussion. I might note that indiscriminate use of all available numbers does little to develop an argument, one should be selective for clarity's sake.

Nah, it was mostly that you used Bradley's ProDay numbers but didn't use Woodley's, and your claims of his dissapointing senior campaign didn't sit right with me. I just couldn't see how someone who had those accomplishments during a single college season was dissapointing.

Also, some point out the other good defensive players Woodley had around him as a senior, but they miss a few things. When those other players were just backups Woodley was putting up good numbers, so it wasn't because of Harris, and Branch that Woodley put up good numbers in '06. If anything you could say Woodley helped their production, and he was the one constant in that defense. I'm glad that you at least like him.

 

[hobbsownscoles]

I still don't understand how someone clearly lacking any discernable intellect operates a PC

At least I don't think of dumbass ideas that wouldn't make any sense. Why would you take a great pass rusher who's strength is outside and put him out of his element inside that he probably isn't athletically capable of playing at a level any more than average or slightly above average verses playing him at a spot where he would play to his strength and rush the passer much more than if he were a run stopping ILB. You do know there's a difference between when you rush the passer and stopping the run from the inside and taking on an Olinemen. And don't even use Bruschi as an excuse to say he can move to ILB, because they are two different types of players.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Nah, it was mostly that you used Bradley's ProDay numbers but didn't use Woodley's, and your claims of his dissapointing senior campaign didn't sit right with me. I just couldn't see how someone who had those accomplishments during a single college season was dissapointing.

Also, some point out the other good defensive players Woodley had around him as a senior, but they miss a few things. When those other players were just backups Woodley was putting up good numbers, so it wasn't because of Harris, and Branch that Woodley put up good numbers in '06. If anything you could say Woodley helped their production, and he was the one constant in that defense. I'm glad that you at least like him.

I guess I'm confused about the numbers that were bothering you, Woodley did not run at the Combine, so any current numbers could only come from the Pro-day. The only real knock I've personally had on him is his mid-2nd or higher price tag for a DE to LB conversion. Even now knowing he has more LB experience then I originally thought, I didn't think he looked as agile as I'd like when I watched what little tape I had of his Senior Bowl week. That isn't to say he wouldn't be a good ILB, it just weighted my enthusiasm. Spencer is another example, I think he could be an OLB, but I think his best position is 4-3 end, that and his late first "grade" have me looking past him at other possibilities.

 

[sebman2112]

I guess I'm confused about the numbers that were bothering you, Woodley did not run at the Combine, so any current numbers could only come from the Pro-day. The only real knock I've personally had on him is his mid-2nd or higher price tag for a DE to LB conversion. Even now knowing he has more LB experience then I originally thought, I didn't think he looked as agile as I'd like when I watched what little tape I had of his Senior Bowl week. That isn't to say he wouldn't be a good ILB, it just weighted my enthusiasm. Spencer is another example, I think he could be an OLB, but I think his best position is 4-3 end, that and his late first "grade" have me looking past him at other possibilities.

Woodley pulled his hammy at the Senior Bowl, maybe that's why he didn't look agile?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Woodley pulled his hammy at the Senior Bowl, maybe that's why he didn't look agile?

I was thinking this was before he hurt himself, but maybe so.

 

[DaBruinz]

Nah, it was mostly that you used Bradley's ProDay numbers but didn't use Woodley's, and your claims of his dissapointing senior campaign didn't sit right with me. I just couldn't see how someone who had those accomplishments during a single college season was dissapointing.

Also, some point out the other good defensive players Woodley had around him as a senior, but they miss a few things. When those other players were just backups Woodley was putting up good numbers, so it wasn't because of Harris, and Branch that Woodley put up good numbers in '06. If anything you could say Woodley helped their production, and he was the one constant in that defense. I'm glad that you at least like him.

Considering that Woodley ONLY has his campus numbers and his Pro-day numbers because he chose to be a wuss and not participate at the combine, who cares.

Now, as for your argument regarding Woodley being the "lone constant". There is a problem with that. You are making the assumption that the players that left were equal to the players that took over. And we know that's NOT the case. Otherwise, they wouldn't have moved Woodley from DE his Freshman year to OLB his sophomore and junior years and then back to DE for his senior year.

If you truly look at it, Woodley's best year was as a Sophomore at OLB. He had 70 tackles, 3 forced fumbles, 16 tackles for losses, 4 passes blocked and 4 sacks. Granted, his Junior and senior years, he was better at sacking the QB, but that should tell you that Woodley would NOT be better at ILB, but better as an 4-3 pass rush DE ala TBC. Now, Woodley might do better as a run defender, but it doesn't solve the issue of his struggles to drop back into pass coverage. And that is one of the KEY elements of a 3-4 OLB in the Pats system. They need to be able to drop back into pass coverage.

I just don't see Woodley as being able to do it.

 

[nickw308810]

I don't think that Woodley would be better at 3-4 ILB than 4-3 DE, but I believe the promise is there for him to be a very good ILB. Of course it is a project, but his size fits it perfectly and the guy is just a football player. I think he could come in and stuff the run, and hopefully he could develop the coverage aspect of his game. He would never be the Bruschi, but hopefully he could develop a Vrabel like game, where he could be interchangeable at ILB and OLB. Not great at one or the other, but quality at both. (Not saying Vrabel isn't great, just saying what I would expect out of Woodley) I think the thing that people are missing comparing him to Woods, is the fact that Woodley was out there making plays and Woods was always the guy full of talent, but never living up to it.

 

[KillEM]

He's turning out to be a monster at OLB for Pittsburgh!

 

[PonyExpress]

I have to give credit to Sebman. I had my doubts about woodley as a 1st rd pick, but was mistaken. Woodley has been tremendous and would have been an excellent pick for the Pats. There's no doubt he has the talent and desire to be an elite player.

 

[BritPat]

Agreed.

Credit also to those talking highly about Bradley though. Now the starting MLB for the Iggles and looking like a pro-bowler. Very disappointed we were beaten to him, he and Mayo could have been scary good together. Especially with Guyton backing them up.