Switch to 3-4 seems to be getting more official

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Its all a ruse.

Long con.
League gonna be soooooo caught off guard when we unveil are real packages in week 11.

 

[Ring 6]

Its all a ruse.

Always is. Belichick uses camp to work on techniques and packages.
There is very little evidence to suggest that as the game continues to evolve into more of a passing game that Belichick will revert to a defense that is stronger against the run and weaker against the pass. The change is still moving in the same direction and he adjusted to in 5 years ago.

 

[Ring 6]

Its all a ruse.

Remember the camp when we were a 34 tram and we played a ton of 43 in camp and everyone was up in arms arguing that he was changing the scheme. Then it turned out that he said he had a lot of DL to evaluate and playing 2 gap was the same playing over C G it T and working from 43 in practice let him see more DL reps? Then we played 34 all year.

That’s one reason I always take training camp reports with a grain of salt.
Fernando Bryant and Randy Moss are others.

 

[203Pat]

Because we play 5 or more dbs almost every snap. And when we play only 4 that alignment is something we would not use based upon what Belichick has done. First we would have 2 DE and 3 lbs and second Collins wouldn’t be on the edge, KVN would.
That’s my opinion based upon philosophy and usage history.

Granted KVN wasn’t playing but Collins lines up on the edge against Detroit.

 

[mosi]

Pennel is 6'4" 331 is that not enough size?

No. I want Ted Washington. 330 lbs is what Big Ted ate for breakfast.

 

[Ring 6]

Granted KVN wasn’t playing but Collins lines up on the edge against Detroit.

I mean they can move Collins all around but he isn’t going to consistently be lining up as a 34 OLB. Even if we ever played a 7 man front.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Granted KVN wasn’t playing but Collins lines up on the edge against Detroit.

As you know KVN is pretty extensible but his value is more on the outside.

They might have been trying Jamie out on a couple of things.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No. I want Ted Washington. 330 lbs is what Big Ted ate for breakfast.

No kidding. Ted was listed as 375 here and that might have been conservative

 

[PP2]

Granted KVN wasn’t playing but Collins lines up on the edge against Detroit.

He lines up all over the place.

This 3-4 talk is ********. There are a number of the media members that really don't know what they're talking about, e.g., Callahan.

As @BaconGrundleCandy says, you may see a 3-4 alignment but at any given time, one or more of the positional players will not play traditional 3-4 roles and this will throw the other team off, and surprise/confuse the quarterback. We have the football IQ and the versatility to pull this off.

 

[203Pat]

He lines up all over the place.

This 3-4 talk is ********. There are a number of the media members that really don't know what they're talking about, e.g., Callahan.

As @BaconGrundleCandy says, you may see a 3-4 alignment but at any given time, one or more of the positional players will not play traditional 3-4 roles and this will throw the other team off, and surprise/confuse the quarterback. We have the football IQ and the versatility to pull this off.

We basically seem to play that amoeba defense. Shifting pass rushers and disguising who is coming off the edge and who is dropping into coverage. In the end of the day whatever the coaching staff wants to do they look like they have the pieces for it.

 

[ralmat55]

Because we play 5 or more dbs almost every snap. And when we play only 4 that alignment is something we would not use based upon what Belichick has done. First we would have 2 DE and 3 lbs and second Collins wouldn’t be on the edge, KVN would.
That’s my opinion based upon philosophy and usage history.

All of us just witnessed in January two pretty good teams in the Chiefs and Chargers have their seasons end in disappointment because they had no answer when the Patriots came at them with a good OL, an excellent blocking TE, a good Fullback, and good lead back.

You’re arguing that an alignment tweak that improves the Patriots defenses’ ability to meet a similar challenge presented by an opponent is not worth talking about because a vast majority of the time the Pats are in their nickel or dime alignments.

 

[Digit]

No kidding. Ted was listed as 375 here and that might have been conservative

Wondering what Ted Washington is like now and hoping he's slimmed down to prolong his life expectancy, man. Good god.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wondering what Ted Washington is like now and hoping he's slimmed down to prolong his life expectancy, man. Good god.

Looks like hes coaching now. Based on the pic he might have lost some weight.

Instead of a mountain hes now a hill.

https://www.heraldonline.com/sports/high-school/prep-football/article217395615.html

 

[Ring 6]

All of us just witnessed in January two pretty good teams in the Chiefs and Chargers have their seasons end in disappointment because they had no answer when the Patriots came at them with a good OL, an excellent blocking TE, a good Fullback, and good lead back.

You’re arguing that an alignment tweak that improves the Patriots defenses’ ability to meet a similar challenge presented by an opponent is not worth talking about because a vast majority of the time the Pats are in their nickel or dime alignments.

When did I argue that?
I’m saying that our base is nickel and the league is moving further in the direction that caused that change years ago.

I think you are vastly miscalculating how and why we won the Sb.

 

[mgteich]

I disagree. If we play more 3-4, we need to keep the backups who excel those sets.

This 3-4 talk is ********. There are a number of the media members that really don't know what they're talking about, e.g., Callahan.

 

[Ivan]

That makes sense to me, but fwiw the daily 3-4 reports continue:

I think Belichick reworks his team on a yearly basis depending upon what he expects to see from opponents, and where his strengths and weaknesses lie. One comment he made about the Gilmore signing, when many Patriot fans were clamoring for them to pay Butler, was that they were going to face many big receivers and needed Gilmore to help deal with that. He also may be running more 3/4 in camp because they didn’t play much of it the past few seasons and they need reps at it. I’m sure they will use it, I just don’t expect it to be their weekly base.

 

[mosi]

No kidding. Ted was listed as 375 here and that might have been conservative

That was a monster of a man!

Also, I think even Vince was listed at like 340 at one point. There is no way he was 340. Maybe now but not when he was playing!

 

[RobertWeathers]

That was a monster of a man!

Also, I think even Vince was listed at like 340 at one point. There is no way he was 340. Maybe now but not when he was playing!

Yep. Ted is 6-5. had the frame to carry that lard.

 

[ralmat55]

When did I argue that?
I’m saying that our base is nickel and the league is moving further in the direction that caused that change years ago.

I think you are vastly miscalculating how and why we won the Sb.

Perhaps our difference of opinion is just semantics. I agree that offenses have been moving more and more to 3 WRs sets (or 2 WRs and a move TE) requiring 5 or more DBs being on the field to cover everyone. Especially for a predominantly man to man D such as the Patriots. Because of this, their nickel defense has become their primary alignment and “base” defense

The Patriots won last year’s SB because their pass defense (rush and coverage) played lights out down the stretch and through the playoffs. If I was an opposition OC with the Pats on the schedule, I’d be seriously thinking of playing heavy personnel against the Patriots and running the ball and using play action just to draw the Patriots out of their nickel and dime defenses they play so well. Make the Patriots play with an inferior personnel groupings just to match up like the Patriots did to the Chargers and Chiefs in the playoffs.

Belichick is most likely anticipating this and wants to improve his “heavy”formation (7 +250 lb players) to meet this challenge. Media reports and my discussion with my nephew who attended the first 5 practices of training camp indicate that when the team is practicing their 7 DL/LB formations they have mostly been aligning with 3 DTs(Guy, Shelton or Pennel, and Butler) and 4 LBs (Van Noy, Hightower, Bentley or Roberts, and Collins) rather than the 2 DTs, 2 DEs and 3 LBs groupings they’ve used the last several years.

Belichick could be just experimenting or just showing it in Preseason and go back to what they have been running once the season starts. Or, he might have come to the conclusion that he can’t play Michael Bennett as much as he did Trey Flowers on early downs and he’d rather have Adam Butler and Bentley or Roberts on the field than Dietrich Wise and Keionta Davis or whoever.

We’ll see on September 8th. But, IMHO what they’re running so far in preseason will prove more successful in stopping inside runs, setting the edge, because it will elongate the line of scrimmage, and will generate more pass rush than the 2 DT, 2 DE and 3 LB “heavy” formation they’ve been using.

 

[Joey007]

So I initially had my questions about it, but I actually really liked the 3-4 look.

Kyle Van Noy’s sack totals may take a big surge this season. IF he stays healthy, this could be a huge year for him.