Still Think Maroney, Pees have to go?

[Synovia]

Discussing Maroney's return yardage when considering whether or not he is a successful RB is lame IMO.

Kind of like discussing Dillon's time in Cinci when we're talking about whether he carried the load in New England?

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Yes they can, but the whole Idea that Maroney hasn't been very good is a farce.

I can agree with that. I would say dissapointing in light of being a high draft pick would be more accurate than saying he hasn't been very good. Injuries play a part in that of course, but it is what it is.

I am not among those who claim BJGE is better than Maroney and I don't believe I have ever said stuff like "Maroney sucks", etc. I understand the frustration with Maroney supporters to that.

On the flip side, I believe Dillon was a far better RB than Maroney is... I thought you were saying the opposite, using rate stats as the proof.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Kind of like discussing Dillon's time in Cinci when we're talking about whether he carried the load in New England?

I said: "Not to mention that most of us watched Dillon carry the load even at the end of his career... something Maroney has never been able to do for even half a season."

My "carry the load" comment was meant to be about many of Dillons seasons and the "even at the end of his career" was an after thought I had ... referring to the 2004 season when he was clearly on the decline leading up to that season and yet, still was able to put up stats that Maroney has not come close to.

I wish I had worded that better as it has somewhat derailed the discussion. You compared Maroney to Dillon (In fact, you used career stats, not Patriot only stats). Perhaps I read more into that comparison than you intended, because it appeared to me that you were saying Maroney is as good (or better) than Dillon.

From your later posts, you seem to be saying that you only meant to point out that Maroney is not as bad as people claim... something I don't even take issue with.

 

[mcsully]

Courtesy of Football Outsiders:
NFL Runnings Backs by Success rate: 55+ Carries

R.Williams 66%
M.Bell 60%
R.Brown 57%
R.Mendenhall 56%
P.Thomas 54%
K.Moreno 54%
M.Barber 53%
J.Stewart 53%
R.Grant 53%
A.Bradshaw 53%
R.Rice 52%
M.Jones-Drew 51%
L.Maroney 51%
J.Addai 50%
D.Williams 50%
A.Peterson 48%
F.Jackson 47%
M.Bush 46%
M.Turner 46%
C.Benson 46%
B.Jacobs 44%
S.Jackson 44%
J.Harrison 44%
T.Jones 43%
W.Parker 42%
C.Portis 41%
L.McCoy 41%
J.Jones 41%
K.Smith 40%
C.Johnson 38%
M.Forte 35%
L.Washington 35%
L.Tomlinson 34%
M.Lynch 34%
J.Lewis 34%
C.Williams 33%
L.Johnson 33%
G.Coffee 32%
S.Slaton 30%


NFL Runnings Backs By DVOA:

R.Rice 37%
R.Williams 33%
R.Brown 27%
P.Thomas 24%
A.Bradshaw 21%
M.Barber 18%
L.Maroney 16%
R.Mendenhall 14%
M.Bell 11%
R.Grant 11%
A.Peterson 11%
M.Jones-Drew 9%
C.Benson 7%
D.Williams 7%
C.Johnson 6%
T.Jones 5%
J.Stewart 3%
C.Williams 1%
S.Jackson 0%
J.Addai -2%
M.Bush -2%
K.Moreno -5%
L.Washington -8%
C.Portis -8%
B.Jacobs -9%
M.Turner -11%
J.Jones -11%
J.Harrison -12%
F.Jackson -12%
J.Lewis -17%
M.Lynch -19%
K.Smith -21%
L.McCoy -22%
L.Tomlinson -22%
W.Parker -34%
L.Johnson -34%
M.Forte -35%
G.Coffee -41%
S.Slaton -48%




Ben Jarvus Green Ellis has a 2.9% DVOA.

BJGE - UGH..

The stats are misleading.. He's got one of the best offensive weapons around him.. Can we get a break down of how many times Maroney is in Shotgun and he gets the ball? You know when the team is playing the pass and has more DB's in than LB's..


PLus that stat makes me laugh.. AP is below Maroney.. You can't justify any stat that tells me LM is better than AP

 

[mcsully]

Maroney has been injured once. He broke his shoulder, and it caused him to miss big chunks of 2007, and all of 2008.

In 4 seasons, he has yet to play 16 games and Break 1000 yards (62.5 ypg)

Rookie season he was banged up twice..

Second season He missed 3 games

Last year he was out for most of the season..

When you draft a guy in the 1st round, you should get a better return..

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

BJGE - UGH..

The stats are misleading.. He's got one of the best offensive weapons around him.. Can we get a break down of how many times Maroney is in Shotgun and he gets the ball? You know when the team is playing the pass and has more DB's in than LB's..

Are you suggesting that Maroney faces more passing down situations in his runs that BJGE? Otherwise, comparing the two is fair, although I'm not sure that this stat in particular is an accurate measurement or their overall success as RBs.

PLus that stat makes me laugh.. AP is below Maroney.. You can't justify any stat that tells me LM is better than AP

That is the problem I have with these stats as well. They represent one tiny glimpse through the keyhole which may, or may not, be a true representation of the overall picture.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Dean Peas will have his work cut out for him when the Pats face the Colts and the Saints.

Maroney would do a lot better if the Pats made a better effort in giving him the ball. 12 carries against one of the worst rush defenses in the NFL is mind boggling.

 

[mcsully]

Are you suggesting that Maroney faces more passing down situations in his runs that BJGE? Otherwise, comparing the two is fair, although I'm not sure that this stat in particular is an accurate measurement or their overall success as RBs.



That is the problem I have with these stats as well. They represent one tiny glimpse through the keyhole which may, or may not, be a true representation of the overall picture.

I'm not high on BJGE.. ANd I think LM is better than him..

My original point was a lot of Maroney's + Yardage comes when he is shotgun and the defense is playing the Run (they have more DB's than LB).. He benefits playing in their system.. If you took Jones Drew or D. Williams, their numbers would be thru the roof..

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

BJGE - UGH..

The stats are misleading.. He's got one of the best offensive weapons around him.. Can we get a break down of how many times Maroney is in Shotgun and he gets the ball? You know when the team is playing the pass and has more DB's in than LB's..


PLus that stat makes me laugh.. AP is below Maroney.. You can't justify any stat that tells me LM is better than AP

Comparing Maroney to Peterson with anything is like comparing a Buick Regal to a Lexus

 

[mcsully]

Comparing Maroney to Peterson with anything is like comparing a Buick Regal to a Lexus

Read what I posted before..

My opinion is the same as yours.. Comparing the two is a joke.. Someone posted a stat showing Maroney was better than AP because he has more positve plays..

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not high on BJGE.. ANd I think LM is better than him..

My original point was a lot of Maroney's + Yardage comes when he is shotgun and the defense is playing the Run (they have more DB's than LB).. He benefits playing in their system.. If you took Jones Drew or D. Williams, their numbers would be thru the roof..

You are describing Faulk's situation here, not Maroney's.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Read what I posted before..

My opinion is the same as yours.. Comparing the two is a joke.. Someone posted a stat showing Maroney was better than AP because he has more positve plays..

I did read it and I agree with you...People like Synvonia and BradyFTW are trying to dig up all types of stats to show of how great they think Moroney is...fact is he sucks but thats another bashing that is not required in this thread so I won't say more regarding that here.

If we played the current version of Tampa Bay and in a snow laden game with Tennessee in every game and in every year then Moroney would be going to the HOF,Unfortunately there are much better teams in the league.

 

[Patspsycho]

It is, but thats not the case. If anything, BJGE's stats are being skewed by 1 good game.
Here is his career game log:
2008:
Den 13-65 5.0
Stl 9-16 1.8
Ind 15-57 3.8
Buf 26-105 4.0
NYJ 2-9 4.5
Mia 7-20 2.9
PIT 2-3 1.5

2009:
TEN 7-67 9.6
TB 7-6 .9

So, as you can see, the outlier is Tennessee, not TB. Theres a funny thing on there too, the only time hes even approached 4 ypc, its been against terrible defenses. Denver, who may have been the worst defense in the league last year, Buffalo, who had 8 starters on IR by about week 5, and Tennessee this year, who was even worst than two teams last year.




BJGE has missed important blocks, and while he hasn't fumbled in the regular season, he has 1 fumble in about 100 career carries, as opposed to maroney's 1 in 450.

Please point to the regular season game in where he has missed an important block or has fumbled.

Again please keep in mind we're talking about regular season, e.g., games that actually count.

You'll probably say that he has too small a number of games to be fairly compared to Maroney in terms of fumbles, etc. which means we revert to my original argument that BJGE has not had a fair amount of time to showcase what kind of RB he really is.

I am not a Maroney basher, but I don't understand why you or anyone has to bash BJGE to prove Maroney is the better player.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I'm not high on BJGE.. ANd I think LM is better than him..

My original point was a lot of Maroney's + Yardage comes when he is shotgun and the defense is playing the Run (they have more DB's than LB).. He benefits playing in their system.. If you took Jones Drew or D. Williams, their numbers would be thru the roof..

Ok. I got you. I agree. Even Kevin Faulk's numbers are padded by the fact that he has a lot of his runs on obvious passing downs when the opponent is in a spread formation with extra DBs... if fact, possibly more so than even Maroney and BJGE.

So I think you may be right that our RBs stats compared to another team may be skewed by the defenses they face... meaning more pass oriented. Of course, all stats are skewed but the quality of the opponent, luck, etc. That is the problem with stats in general.

 

[mcsully]

You are describing Faulk's situation here, not Maroney's.

No i'm not.. I'm describing the fact Maroneys best runs are in Shotgun..

 

[mcsully]

I did read it and I agree with you...People like Synvonia and BradyFTW are trying to dig up all types of stats to show of how great they think Moroney is...fact is he sucks but thats another bashing that is not required in this thread so I won't say more regarding that here.

If we played the current version of Tampa Bay and in a snow laden game with Tennessee in every game and in every year then Moroney would be going to the HOF,Unfortunately there are much better teams in the league.

Totally agree with the stat pumping here..

LIke I said 5 pages ago.. Watch Maroneys TD run last sunday.. He hesitated for a second and than ran off to the right.. His issue is not speed or hands but his vision and hesitation..
You either have it or you don't.. & he doesn't have it.. And thats a fact..

 

[eagle eye]

Totally agree with the stat pumping here..

LIke I said 5 pages ago.. Watch Maroneys TD run last sunday.. He hesitated for a second and than ran off to the right.. His issue is not speed or hands but his vision and hesitation..
You either have it or you don't.. & he doesn't have it.. And thats a fact..

Thats not a fact.

Stats are facts and they've been thrown at you time and time again but you just don't know when to shut up and accept it and admit that you are clearly so wrong.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Adrian Peterson is on pace to becoming one, or the greatest runningback of all time.

Maroney is on pace to becoming a JAG.

 

[mcsully]

Thats not a fact.

Stats are facts and they've been thrown at you time and time again but you just don't know when to shut up and accept it and admit that you are clearly so wrong.

by all means go ahead.. Last fact presented showed Maroney better than AP..

Oh and yes its a fact.. LM hesitated hitting the hole last week.. Go back and watch it..

 

[JackBauer]

by all means go ahead.. Last fact presented showed Maroney better than AP..

Oh and yes its a fact.. LM hesitated hitting the hole last week.. Go back and watch it..

I did go back and watch it. Do me a favor: Please show me these wholes of which you speak.