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Stats to back that TB is the greatest QB


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I should probably take back my disagree --- one is definitely better than the other.
that's not wrong.

In your posts, you are attempting to compare two great players from different eras. Passing rules, free agency, salary cap, personnel specialization, offensive/defensive levels of sophistication, training and player health, analytics. etc. are all major differences between the two players and their eras.

I'm not sure why you are trying to prove TB12 is better than Montana? Numbers and salaries help your argument but they do not provide proof by any means.
 
I believe they saw 1 conference game in the 20 years following implementation of the cap, which they lost, incidentally.

once the niners were forced to spend like every other team they started winning like every other team, and this is even despite circumventing the cap using the ir.

in the 4 years after montana moved on from the niners, '91-'94 they went to 3 ccg and won a sb without him.

then in the next 4 years following that, after the cap was imposed, they appeared in a single ccg, which they lost.

there is no question that joe montana was and is an icon, but to say he's a greater qb than brady is science fiction dreamed up from fuzzy childhood memories before you learned the priest wasn't supposed to be doing that.
the niners bought those championships, and montana happened to be at the right place at the right time.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/13/joe-namath-tom-brady-super-bowl-xlix-nfl/

http://miamimigraine.blogspot.com/2008/03/not-greatest-quarterback-of-all-time_30.html
 
I believe they saw 1 conference game in the 20 years following implementation of the cap, which they lost, incidentally.

once the niners were forced to spend like every other team they started winning like every other team, and this is even despite circumventing the cap using the ir.

in the 4 years after montana moved on from the niners, '91-'94 they went to 3 ccg and won a sb without him.

then in the next 4 years following that, after the cap was imposed, they appeared in a single ccg, which they lost.

there is no question that joe montana was and is an icon, but to say he's a greater qb than brady is science fiction dreamed up from fuzzy childhood memories before you learned the priest wasn't supposed to be doing that.
the niners bought those championships, and montana happened to be at the right place at the right time.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/13/joe-namath-tom-brady-super-bowl-xlix-nfl/

http://miamimigraine.blogspot.com/2008/03/not-greatest-quarterback-of-all-time_30.html

Your arguments aren't particularly good, likely because you're being ridiculous in your starting position. Also, Montana got the Chiefs to the AFCCG.

I mean, trying to denigrate Montana because of Young is crazy talk.
 
over a 3 year stretch in the prime of my career I was 0-3 in the playoffs, 46/88 52% for 503 total yds with 0 td and 4 picks



WHO AM I?





sry if I'm peeing on anybody's childhood icons
 
I've said this a billion times, Manning is the greatest REGULAR season QB ever, but get him in the playoffs, and he's not even top 10.

Brady has been more successful in the playoffs. with various levels of talent around him, with probably only Randy Moss (for only 2 1/2 seasons) and Gronk as hall of fame caliber players. Manning has always had great talent around him.

Also, Brady has led his team to 3 game winning drives in 4 Super Bowl wins, maybe the greatest being the most recent. The two losses, he gave the team a chance to win and the defenses gave up game winning drives. What may give him an edge over Montana, is Montana definitely had better talent around him, and also Montana played in SB blowouts, ALL 6 SBs Brady played in were won by 4 or less points. So a lot more pressure. And like I said, could've won all 6 if not for the D choking in 2.



Actually Brady is far and away the best regular season QB ever, Brady is sporting a 77.4 %, Staubach a 74.5 % ( only 85 wins though), Montana 71.3 %, Manning 69.5 %. Brady is head and shoulders above ANY other QB oh the past 60 years in the reg season.
 
Brady has 2 more conference championships than Montana , and Joe has more one and dones than Brady.

Brady is clearly the GOAT.
 
(from a posting from a couple yrs ago)


everybody has fond memories of yesteryear, when they were growing up and watching all these iconic teams and players, but football is about competition --- that's what makes for a great sport and a great team, competition, and the nfl is more about competition today than ever, which is why you don't see a handful of teams dominate, anymore, which basically prevents any single team from becoming iconic.

that's great that you might still be able to talk about the rosters of those great niners teams decades later, but I looked up some stuff for a post in another thread, recently, and found out that in one particular year in the early nineties (the random one I looked up), shortly before the advent of the salary cap, the final four teams that year were all in the top 7 in team payroll.
I think the best record that year belonged to the niners, with 14 wins, iirc, and not only were they among the top teams in payroll, their payroll actually exceeded those other 3 final 4 teams by 25%, by 50% over the nfl median, and actually 100% of another team in their own division.
that's greatness?

I don't think anyone would dispute the greatness and iconic identity of the original dream team, but is that what you'd really prefer the nfl to return to ---- a handful of haves rolling chumps all season?
people love some of those old dominant teams because people love winners, which is why there were so many people adopting the yankees all over the country, so many celtics and lakers fans, raiders, cowboys, etc --- because if you wanted to root for a winner you might have to adopt a team that plays home games 2000 miles away from you.

btw, that 14-2 niner team with the bloated payroll didn't make the superbowl that year.
this was right around the time montana was wrapping up his 13 year run, and handing off the legacy to steve young, who played 13 years of his own for the club.
we all recognize some of the fixtures from those rosters, years later --- roger craig - 8 year run, rice - 16 years, clark - 9 years, rathman - 8 yrs, lott - 10 yrs, haley - 6 yrs, taylor - 9 yrs, etc
maybe the closest thing we've had in the current nfl would be the patriots, with the tenured brady being the most recognizable name, of course.
but how many others on this 'dynasty' even last long enough to see a contract extension in a salary capped nfl -- mankins, wilfork, and......?
nobody, outside pats fans, is talking about a couple linemen, and the rest of the team is pretty much regularly turned over with lesser luminaries, and rookie contracts, because that's what you have to do when free agency exists, and you can't spend 100% more than a division 'rival', to use the term loosely.
welker might be one of the more easily identified with this current bunch, and he could be out the door after a spectacular 6 year run.

yeah, when you see the same faces over and over, year after year, on one of the 3 networks you have access to, it's a little easier to identify the players and build memories, but that's not competition, and it's not true greatness --- that's just comfortable familiarity.
 
montana got drafted by one of the freest spending owners in history, with one of the greatest coaches in history, one of the greatest defenses in history, and throwing to the greatest receiver in history --- just think of the damage that guy might have done if he could've willed that team of misfits to more than 4 sb appearances in 14 years.
 
Brady has 2 more conference championships than Montana , and Joe has more one and dones than Brady.

Brady is clearly the GOAT.
Good grief.

Is Otto Graham better than Bart Starr?

Is Bart Starr better than Terry Bradshaw? Roger Staubach?

Is # of conference championships and the most one and dones the criteria we want to use when evaluating greatness?

Seems like a stretch to me...
 
In your posts, you are attempting to compare two great players from different eras. Passing rules, free agency, salary cap, personnel specialization, offensive/defensive levels of sophistication, training and player health, analytics. etc. are all major differences between the two players and their eras.

I'm not sure why you are trying to prove TB12 is better than Montana? Numbers and salaries help your argument but they do not provide proof by any means.

a lot of people will discredit the stats of today's qb citing rules changes and an evolution of the league --- this is, of course, very valid.

I don't see much point in straight up stat comparisons spanning eras like that.



today's era is more conducive to accumulating passing stats, but do you know what it's not conducive to?

building dynasties --- and that's the #1 argument anybody ever makes for montana, that he won 4 sb.

in the years prior to the cap we saw teams of the 70s like miami go to 3 sb in 3 years, minny appear in 3 sb over 4 yrs, and the great pittsburgh team win 4 in 6 yrs.

then in the 80s and 90s you constantly see the same few teams playing in the big game, like washington, dallas, those niners, and even buffalo making 4 consecutive trips.

that #### just doesn't happen in today's league --- since they instituted the cap to bust up these oligarchies, which teams, outside brady's patriots, could really be considered a dynasty like montana's niners?

comparison of eras is not nearly as favorable to the qb of yesteryear as you'd like to think
 
Not that most of us here think otherwise but still, nice to see the various breakdowns and their leaders that solidly places TB as the best.

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/is...st-quarterback-in-nfl-history.html/?a=viewall

Here's hoping TB wins two or three more SBs - with league inspected balls :D - just to say FU to the NFL.

Still, the most impressive statistic I have ever seen about the Belichick-Brady era is:

Since Dec. 24, 2000, the Patriots have been still in contention for a championship at the start of every game they've played.
 
Good grief.

Is Otto Graham better than Bart Starr?

Is Bart Starr better than Terry Bradshaw? Roger Staubach?

Is # of conference championships and the most one and dones the criteria we want to use when evaluating greatness?

Seems like a stretch to me...


Montana and Brady both have the same number of SB, Brady has gotten his team deeper in the playoffs than Montana. This is something that the Montana 4-0 in SB no nits overlooks. Hence my response.

QB is ultimatly leading your team to wins.
 
None taken, as you make some splendid points and more importantly, this not MY compliation. :)

Just sharing what I came across today in the NFL world today that is so anti-Pats and anti-Brady.

Request on those excellent nuggets you mentioned in the second para: can you consider preparing a list of such unique stats for the benefit of us fans?

And if you are up for it, maybe write an article referring to those stats and see if Ian or others can get it published thru Tom Curran or other Pats friendly sites?

Thanks!


http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/there-goes-tom-brady-the-best-who-ever-lived/33040/

There Goes Tom Brady, the Best Who Ever Lived
 
Montana and Brady both have the same number of SB, Brady has gotten his team deeper in the playoffs than Montana. This is something that the Montana 4-0 in SB no nits overlooks. Hence my response.

QB is ultimatly leading your team to wins.

I am certainly not trying to support the "Montana is better" argument. IMO it is a worthless argument.

If winning is all we care about (which I support) then the players I listed are the greatest QB's the game has ever seen.

Because of his longevity, solid ownership, front office and coach, clearly Brady has done more "winning" than Montana. However, in a denser period of time (1981-90) Montana did just as much in less time.

It's an endless argument IMO. Brady v Peyton is MUCH easier ;)
 
I've been calling Brady the G.O.A.T. for some time now, but the ridiculous attempts to discredit Montana are an embarrassment.
 
I've been calling Brady the G.O.A.T. for some time now, but the ridiculous attempts to discredit Montana are an embarrassment.


Not discrediting Montata he is the 2nd best I have seen in 50+ years watching football, just not as good as Brady.
 
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That's unfair to Joe. One can make a legitimate argument for Joe. That's much different than Peyton.


I agree. You can bring up that Joe had excellent talent to work with but so did the teams he had to face throughout the playoffs. Brady is in my mind the Greatest and we all know a million reasons why but Montana was the greatest before Brady came along.
 
Twenty-one years ago this week, Bill Walsh stood before the skeptical Bay Area media and defended a controversial decision. He told them that the 49ers' troubled rookie wide receiver would remain a starter despite several bad performances.


The rookie's name was Jerry Rice.

The 49ers, fresh off a victory in Super Bowl XIX, were 6-5 and fighting for their playoff lives. Joe Montana's passing numbers were off. Rice, the team's top draft pick, had 26 receptions in 11 games, but he also dropped 10 balls, some of them at the worst possible times. He was coming off a game in which he dropped two passes, fumbled once, and caught just one pass. Niners fans booed the rookie; local columnists made him the butt of jokes


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2006/too-deep-zone-jerry-rice-rookie-bust

wow, something really got that guy turned around............


Looks like Rice was in quite a Sticky situation back then.
 
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