Speculation: Patriots set to make big trades

[VrabelJr]

4 1st round picks...suh? :bricks:

Fixed your post.

 

[Bonzo]

I still wonder if the Pats might consider a play for Cruz. A story on NFL.com claims Giants made an offer that "exceeds" $7M/yr. (It's obviously very nonspecific, but I take that to mean less than $8M.)

I have no idea how the brain trust values Cruz, but remembering the Pats were happy to pay Randy Moss $9M per 5 years ago -- not implying in any way that the two are comparable talents, but Moss was at the time 5 years older than Cruz is now -- it's not out of the question to think the Pats might invest that kind of capital in the WR position.

(Yeah, I know we already have our slot receiver for the foreseeable future, but Cruz is of the sort I think the Pats favor outside anyway.)

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I still wonder if the Pats might consider a play for Cruz.

No. TC said he isn't going anywhere and eli said he would restructure to keep cruz. No chance he leaves giants

No other team appears willing to relinquish both a first-round pick and a long-term contract for the rights to Cruz. Perhaps just as importantly, the receiver recently switched to agent Tom Condon, who has a solid relationship with the Giants representing Eli Manning.

 

[Joker]

so...23 pages devoted to these "big Patriot trades!!!!"...should I wade through this morass and see if the Patriots made even ONE trade...or go back to watching the NCAA tournament....hmmmm...tough choice

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

so...23 pages devoted to these "big Patriot trades!!!!"...should I wade through this morass and see if the Patriots made even ONE trade...or go back to watching the NCAA tournament....hmmmm...tough choice

Page 4...we traded for larry fitzgerald..page 8 we traded for victor cruz and page 11 we traded for revis...missing a lot joker

 

[Brady2Moss]

Page 4...we traded for larry fitzgerald..page 8 we traded for victor cruz and page 11 we traded for revis...missing a lot joker

WE GOT SUH FOR 3 FIRST ROUND PICKS...what a steal Bill haggled them down from the 4 first rounders they originally wanted.

 

[Rob0729]

No. TC said he isn't going anywhere and eli said he would restructure to keep cruz. No chance he leaves giants

Well, if the Giants are only offering $7 million a year and someone else offers $9-10 million. I don't know if they will keep him.

Also, Eli can offer whatever he wants. He isn't taking a pay cut. He is willing to take his salary in a bonus. The question is whether the Giants want to increase Manning's cap dollars in later years to redo his contract now? They may not want to do it. I guarantee you if the Giants asked Manning to give up say $5 million of his contract to sign Cruz, he would say no.

Manning has a $13 million base salary this year. He is willing to convert part or most of it into a signing bonus. That is all. Most players in the same situation would gladly take most of their base salary in one lump sum now rather than have it paid out over the course of the season. It is real big of Manning to take say $10 million in one big check now than have it paid out in 16 paychecks over the season.

Manning and Cruz share the same agent. It is a PR ploy by Tom Condon to put pressure on the Giants to give Cruz a long term deal. It is all BS. Manning would gladly redo his deal if the Giants were going to sign Cruz or not.

Not saying the Pats will go after Cruz, but I can certainly see another team potentially stealing him away from the Giants before mid-April.

 

[RayClay]

I thought we gave up too much for Tebow, but if tom has agreed to the co-quarterbacks clause in Tim's contract, who am I to argue?

 

[Miguel]

From the CBA:
"For any player removed from the Team's roster, or whose Contract is
assigned to another Club via waivers or trade, on or before June 1 in any League Year prior to the Final League Year, or at any time during the Final League Year, any unamortizedsigning bonus amounts will be included in Team Salary for such League Year, except that for each League Year preceding the Final League Year, each Club may designate up to two Player Contracts that, if terminated on or prior to June 1 and if not renegotiated after the last regular season game of the prior League Year, shall be treated
(except to the extent prescribed by Section 6(d) (iv) below) as if terminated on June 2, i.e., the Salary Cap charge for each such contract will remain in the Club's Team Salary until June 2, at which time its Paragraph 5 Salary and any unearned LTBE incentives will no longer be counted and any unamortized signing bonus will be treated as set forth in Subsection (2) below. If acceleration puts a Team over the Salary Cap, the Team will have seven days to conform with the Salary Cap, but may not sign any players until there
is Room to do so under the Salary Cap.
(2) For any player removed from the Team's roster or whose Contract is
assigned via waivers or trade after June 1, except in the Final League Year, any unamortized signing bonus amounts for future years will be included fully in Team Salary at the start of the next League Year.
(3) In the event that a player who has had a signing bonus allocated over the
years of his Player Contract is traded, or whose Contract is assigned to another team pursuant to the NFL's waiver procedure, the Team Salary of the player's new team will not include any portion of the signing bonus."

I thought that we were talking about making trades now, not after June 2.

Why would the Lions redo Suh's and then trade him a couple of months later? Did Matt Millen get reinstated as the Lions GM?

 

[Miguel]

Miguel, correct me if I'm wrong. I was under the impression that one of the few benefits of a trade is that any signing bonus money stays with the original team.

You are correct. My point was that before his recent restructure his 2013 dead money was X amount of dollars. His restructure added to X since most of his 2013 salary was converted into a signing bonus.

 

[patfanken]

Well, if the Giants are only offering $7 million a year and someone else offers $9-10 million. I don't know if they will keep him.

Also, Eli can offer whatever he wants. He isn't taking a pay cut. He is willing to take his salary in a bonus. The question is whether the Giants want to increase Manning's cap dollars in later years to redo his contract now? They may not want to do it. I guarantee you if the Giants asked Manning to give up say $5 million of his contract to sign Cruz, he would say no.

Manning has a $13 million base salary this year. He is willing to convert part or most of it into a signing bonus. That is all. Most players in the same situation would gladly take most of their base salary in one lump sum now rather than have it paid out over the course of the season. It is real big of Manning to take say $10 million in one big check now than have it paid out in 16 paychecks over the season.

Manning and Cruz share the same agent. It is a PR ploy by Tom Condon to put pressure on the Giants to give Cruz a long term deal. It is all BS. Manning would gladly redo his deal if the Giants were going to sign Cruz or not.

Not saying the Pats will go after Cruz, but I can certainly see another team potentially stealing him away from the Giants before mid-April.

Rob, normally I'd agree with you 100R%, but Brady has now set the precedent. Who knows if Eli would be willing to do the same kind of deal that lowers his cap number (and real compensation in the final years of his contract) They could add a small "sweetener" like Tom got right, and voila, they have created the much needed cap room the Giants desire, and a more manageable QB cap number over the next, say, 5 years.

Were it not for Brady breaking the mold, your thought process would be flawless, BTW- nice insight pointing out the Condon connection.

 

[Don Kipines]

A play for Cruz would explain the slowness of the Pats' FA period. They need all their ducks in a row before they go after a high-priced RFA. They simply can't proceed for a week of FA with tons of money tied up waiting for someone like Cruz.

So if they have other big-ticket needs they have to attend to besides Cruz, they have to do those things now -- they can't deal with them later. If an Abraham or Freeney is a priority, they have to wait out that market. They can't go and deal with their wideout situation in the meantime.

It would be a disaster to sign Cruz or Sanders to a front-loaded offer sheet, leave $3 million earmarked for Abraham, then see Abraham sign for $3.1 million before the Giants/Steelers match. They've got to get the other signings done before they head into the RFA market, if that's what they're planning on doing.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

A play for Cruz would explain the slowness of the Pats' FA period. They need all their ducks in a row before they go after a high-priced RFA. They simply can't proceed for a week of FA with tons of money tied up waiting for someone like Cruz.

So if they have other big-ticket needs they have to attend to besides Cruz, they have to do those things now -- they can't deal with them later. If an Abraham or Freeney is a priority, they have to wait out that market. They can't go and deal with their wideout situation in the meantime.

It would be a disaster to sign Cruz or Sanders to a front-loaded offer sheet, leave $3 million earmarked for Abraham, then see Abraham sign for $3.1 million before the Giants/Steelers match. They've got to get the other signings done before they head into the RFA market, if that's what they're planning on doing.

This exact same problem arose in the discussion about signing the Steelers' Sanders to an offer sheet.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, normally I'd agree with you 100R%, but Brady has now set the precedent. Who knows if Eli would be willing to do the same kind of deal that lowers his cap number (and real compensation in the final years of his contract) They could add a small "sweetener" like Tom got right, and voila, they have created the much needed cap room the Giants desire, and a more manageable QB cap number over the next, say, 5 years.

Were it not for Brady breaking the mold, your thought process would be flawless, BTW- nice insight pointing out the Condon connection.

Except Eli is not offering to do what Brady is offering to do. At least not yet. All he offered is to redo his contract. Nine times out of ten, that means converting base salary to a signing bonus.

Besides, I think Brady is irrelevant to this conversation. Most players would not be willing to do what Brady has done which basically locks him into a value contract in years where his age and potentially declining production gives him little leverage to force a renegotiation if he ends up being grossly under paid.

I don't see a Tom Condon client ever willingly do that type of contract. *You select Tom Condon as your agent, it means you want to be paid. *Not trying to create a team friendly deal. *Look at his brother. *Peyton could have done something similar to stay in Indy. *But he decided he wanted the money.

Also, the structure of the two deals are different and might play a part in the negotiations. Brady was signed through 2014. Manning is signed through 2015. The last two years of Brady's deal, he was scheduled to get $19.5 million in base salary. In the last three years of Manning's deal, he is scheduled to receive $45.15 million in base salary ($17 million in his final year). The Giants have a lot of out if Manning suffers a career ending injury or an injury that significantly kills his production. I don't know if they want to be guaranteeing him a huge amount of money up front especially since he has had inconsistent production over the years.

I don't think Brady has changed anything. There are few players who would be willing to do what Brady did for a contract.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Except Eli is not offering to do what Brady is offering to do. At least not yet. All he offered is to redo his contract. Nine times out of ten, that means converting base salary to a signing bonus.

Besides, I think Brady is irrelevant to this conversation. Most players would not be willing to do what Brady has done which basically locks him into a value contract in years where his age and potentially declining production gives him little leverage to force a renegotiation if he ends up being grossly under paid.

I don't see a Tom Condon client ever willingly do that type of contract. *You select Tom Condon as your agent, it means you want to be paid. *Not trying to create a team friendly deal. *Look at his brother. *Peyton could have done something similar to stay in Indy. *But he decided he wanted the money.

Also, the structure of the two deals are different and might play a part in the negotiations. Brady was signed through 2014. Manning is signed through 2015. The last two years of Brady's deal, he was scheduled to get $19.5 million in base salary. In the last three years of Manning's deal, he is scheduled to receive $45.15 million in base salary ($17 million in his final year). The Giants have a lot of out if Manning suffers a career ending injury or an injury that significantly kills his production. I don't know if they want to be guaranteeing him a huge amount of money up front especially since he has had inconsistent production over the years.

I don't think Brady has changed anything. There are few players who would be willing to do what Brady did for a contract.

And even few who have wives who make as much/more. . . .

 

[resdubwhite]

would not be surprised if the team offers a second next year for 2 picks from SF in this years draft (3rd and 4th possibly)

Their roster is stacked and there's no way they'll want to use all of those picks in this draft. Makes sense for both teams, especially if the we have to settle for the Browns 2014 2nd rounder for Mallett.

 

[zeroakuma]

would not be surprised if the team offers a second next year for 2 picks from SF in this years draft (3rd and 4th possibly)

Their roster is stacked and there's no way they'll want to use all of those picks in this draft. Makes sense for both teams, especially if the we have to settle for the Browns 2014 2nd rounder for Mallett.

No one is going to offer a 2nd rounder for Mallett. You must be crazy.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

would not be surprised if the team offers a second next year for 2 picks from SF in this years draft (3rd and 4th possibly)

I would be at least mildly surprised: in his 13 drafts, this is something BB has never done (send away future picks for an extra pick "this" year). Of course, he's done it the other way numerous times.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

So when will the Revis and Fitzgerald deals be finalized ? :singing:

 

[resdubwhite]

No one is going to offer a 2nd rounder for Mallett. You must be crazy.

do you really need to be so cruel.

you could just disagree. *******