Rob0729 said:
Again, you back up my claim of him being above average, but nothing special. Never said he was Brady or Manning, but he isn't even Rivers (who had a better year with even less and don't even get into the yards discussion to argue against this point without looking at TDs and INTs) or Ben Roethlisberger.
Rivers also had a pretty decent running game to back him up. One that the NFL knew could do damage so defenses didn't key in on Rivers as much as they did Cutler. Cutler was pretty much the only threat the defense had to face when playing the Broncos, yet still had the offense do enough to get to 8 wins. Brandon Marshall is good but only as good as the guy who gets the ball into his hands. But let's look at Big Ben and Rivers. In 2006, Rivers saw his team have a good campaign behind a very run happy offense which saw L.T. have one of the greatest statistical seasons ever at the running back position. He then got into the playoffs where we were able to contain L.T. and put the game on him. San Diego then lost. Rivers went on to have a miserable 2007 campain but came on somewhat in the playoffs before injuring his knee. Would you have then turned around and said he was overrated then? You probably would have but you would have been wrong. Rivers had an excellent 2008 and all the reasons I mentioned before contributed to it being as good as it was. Roethlisberger was in a similar situation as Rivers in his rookie season. Good campain behind a good running attack and good defense. When he got into the playoffs, he and the Steelers stumbled by their opponents until our defense was good enough not to blow the game. We stopped the run and put the game on him and he lost it for his team. In 2005, he had a decent but not noteworthy campaign which saw the same attack take them to the Super Bowl. When he got into the Super Bowl, he played horribly but the rest of the team was good enough to win it. 2006 he faceplanted into a car and that was that. He stumbled as did the rest of the team. Would you have said he was overrated then? Probably. But then in 2007, he went on to have a career year throwing for over 30 touchdowns in Mike Tomlin's system. The end of the season for the Steelers proved that football is a team sport as the defense started to sputter. The Steelers never made it out of the wild card. In 2008, Tomlin went to a more balanced attack (including the running game more than he did in 2007) and the Steelers won the Super Bowl on a clutch throw by Big Ben (which I thought, personally, was better than the catch).
All those words and facts prove two things for me: 1. Football is a team sport. When you include the team, the offensive or defensive side of the ball sees more production. And, 2. Don't judge a player too quickly. Especially a player that has the physical attributes of a Cutler.
Heck Cassel had a better year than him with a very questionable defense.
Cassel also had Randy Moss and Wes Welker available to throw the ball to. Do I have to bring up the YAC statistic or do you already know it. And did you actually compare the 2008 Patriot defense to the 2008 Bronco defense? Come on, Rob, I know you're better than this. The Patriot defense sucked when compared to other Patriot defenses from this decade. The Bronco defense just flat out sucked. That was, by far, one of the worst defenses I have ever seen. The two don't even come close to comparing.
And if you take away Brandon Marshall, Cutler would be disgustingly bad. If you took away the crappy pass defenses he faced (the Broncos had nine games against defenses that were ranked in the bottom third of the league in pass defense which includes several ), he would be disgustingly worse.
What's funny is that this is pretty much the same thing that opposing teams' fans say about Brady. Granted, neither you nor I could ever know what would happen if Cutler had to play an entire season with Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, and Troy Brown as his primary threats.
The guy has a million arm and a ten cent head.
Can't say that I disagree here. If you had simply said this right off the bat instead of saying he was overrated, I would have agreed with you instead of argued with you.
Rumor is that he doesn't even know where the film room is in the Broncos facilities. That is why McDaniels wants to get rid of him.
Yeah. There's also that one rumor that Tom Brady is gay and that Belichick cheats in everything that he does. Don't let rumors be the main source of why you don't like somebody. Until someone within the organization (such as McDaniels, Bowlen, Shanahan, etc.), it's just hearsay.
Cutler was second in the league in INTs which I do have to admit is spectacular. Of course, apparently with a Bus Cook client, people make excuses for that fact with injuries. Plenty of QB have injuries and don't turn over the ball that much.
Maybe with Favre but I only pointed out injuries for Cutler in one instance: the game vs. the Pats. The main fact that I pointed out is that defenses did not have to respect Denver's running game and instead either sent more pass rushers after him, or dropped more back into coverage. Cutler received the vast majority of the attention on offense. Not Brandon Marshall who was taken out of the game with double coverage.
And by the way, when you start with the yeah he sucked that game, but he was injured combined with yeah he sucked but he had no defense, you are just making excuses for him not playing well. Which means you are conceeding he isn't playing well.
Uh, not really. I'm pointing out that football is a team game. If you played football, you should understand this. I never said there weren't instances in which he didn't play well. There were. I even admitted to such in the Panthers game (which makes your point for me just making excuses for him null and void). However, I understand that any player on the field, especially the quarterback, will see their play slip if the rest of the pieces of the puzzle aren't working well. So, let me know when a single player wins the Super Bowl. Until then, I'll stick by this point. Oh, and by the way: not playing well isn't the same thing as being overrated. There's been instances in which our very own Tom Brady didn't play well. I'll go back 4 years and keep it in the playoffs just to give Google a bit of a break. 2005 - Brady throws a costly pick-6 against Denver. That play was the dagger in the heart of the game. 2006 - Brady throws multiple interceptions against San Diego. The game is saved on Troy Brown's clutch strip of Marlon McCree. If not, the last pick Brady threw would have cost us the game. 2007 - Brady throws another multi-pick game against San Diego. The Pats defense steps up big multiple times against an L.T.-less running game. In the end, when the game can still be had, the Pats offense rips a nine minute drive behind Laurence Maroney's running and saves the game. Two weeks later in the Super Bowl, Brady is harassed into a game which saw him make several uncharacteristic throws and miss wide open receivers. The Pats lost this game.
Want to know what else happened in all those games? Brady wasn't the only guy who didn't play well. Now, would you say that Brady didn't play well or that he was overrated? And yes, I am aware that Brady has won multiple Super Bowls. And yes, I know that there is no comparison between he and Cutler. But it can still be pointed out that not even the great Tom Brady plays well in every game.
And all this if he had this he would be awesome argument, it is another weak argument. Because Cutler had a lot of great things that he wouldn't have elsewhere including one of the best receiving corps in the league with arguably one of the three or four best young WRs in the league (no matter how much of an arse he is).
Saying I have a weak argument is basically a cop-out. I've pointed out why it isn't a weak argument in the paragraph above. And, while Marshall is a pretty good receiver, he isn't one of the three or four best WRs in the league. Not even close. Marshall was being taken out of several games with simple double coverage.
Also, you forgot the San Deigo games. He played well in the first although should have cost the Broncos the game if Ed Hoculi called his strip sack right which was totally his fault. Also, the second game he played miserably including a key INT in the third quarter that ruined any chance of the Broncos coming back.
Hochuli did save that game for them. However, Cutler still threw a clutch touchdown at the end and a key two point conversion lasered in between double coverage after that for the win. The second game was lost by the defense. Cutler didn't play well but that INT certainly didn't cost them the game by any stretch. The fact that you say that it did just boggles the mind. San Diego put up 50+ points. Whenever that happens, the blame is generally expected to be put on the defense.
