Shazier vs. Mosley

[VJCPatriot]

I like Christian Jones as a backup at all 3 LB positions. He's played them all - SAM, WILL, and MLB. He has similar range and coverage ability compared to Mosley, and he's not nearly as undersized as Shazier. He doesn't have quite the raw speed of Shazier, but he's more than adept enough in coverage and blitzing off the edge. He was used as a DE this season, and even at DT at times because he's so adept at taking on blockers and in run support, which is also a major plus for a Pats' LB.

The added incentive would be the confusion of having 3x Jones on the defense! Our new D name could be Keeping Up with the Joneses! Jones makes a tackle, Jones makes a sack, Jones with the pass deflection! Wow the announcer called his name 3 times in a row, that Jones is all over the place?! Naah, we have 3 Joneses.

 

[patchick]

The added incentive would be the confusion of having 3x Jones on the defense! Our new D name could be Keeping Up with the Joneses! Jones makes a tackle, Jones makes a sack, Jones with the pass deflection! Wow the announcer called his name 3 times in a row, that Jones is all over the place?! Naah, we have 3 Joneses.

Three C. Joneses, better yet for jersey purposes! I'm on board now.

 

[mayoclinic]

Three C. Joneses, better yet for jersey purposes! I'm on board now.

3 Ch. Joneses, even. Talk about depth.

 

[patchick]

Sometimes I wonder why we don't talk about Telvin Smith more. (Not in round 1, just in general.) Shazier, Tripp, Jones and even Pierre-Louis all get a lot more love.

 

[Coach42]

Great question. He seems the most naturally equipped to play that s/LB role that is the new rage.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Sometimes I wonder why we don't talk about Telvin Smith more. (Not in round 1, just in general.) Shazier, Tripp, Jones and even Pierre-Louis all get a lot more love.

4.52 40. Pretty fast. 6'3 218 lbs. Pretty much the definition of the mobile linebacker. Projected to go in rounds 4-5. As a value pick, later, why not. I'd rather draft some big uglies in rounds 3-4. Some defensive linemen and maybe a C/G to understudy under Wendell/Connolly.

Telvin Smith Draft Profile ? NFL.com

 

[manxman2601]

Sometimes I wonder why we don't talk about Telvin Smith more. (Not in round 1, just in general.) Shazier, Tripp, Jones and even Pierre-Louis all get a lot more love.

Well I have, particularly when I'm discussing the hybrid s/LB role. Having said, a second round projection and poor explosion numbers at the combine put me off a bit.

 

[patchick]

Well I have, particularly when I'm discussing the hybrid s/LB role. Having said, a second round projection and poor explosion numbers at the combine put me off a bit.

Yep, you're the one poster I recall talking about him.

He'd definitely be the hybrid type rather than a classic LB -- OLs have a way of swallowing him whole. But he looks really, really good in coverage.

 

[JerseyShore99]

I like them both a lot, Mosley is more of a middle man in an NFL 4-3 D that would be great against the run and decent in coverage and act a leader in the middle of a defense but that's not what NE needs right now. I like Shazier more both as a prospect and Pats' pick due to his speed, size, versatility, and stats. To me Shazier can be inside of an NFL 3-4 D, outside on a 4-3 or 3-4 or even possibly moved to SS with his speed and physicality. He's great against the run and coverage and, in my opinion, had a FAR stronger 2012 than Manti Te'o

 

[patfanken]

I watched 30 minutes of Mosely highlights and didn't see one. He can't take on blockers like Spikes. If an OLman got his hands on him, it was over for him and that's at the college level. He was adequate in short coverage (I didn't see him take on TE's in the seam). Add to that we already have 2 guys who can play MLB (Hightower and Mayo). Also in my mind he doesn't add any position flexibility. He could play inside, or a will in coverage, and that's it.

Shazer on the other hand looks like the kind of hybrid guy who would thrive in the kind of defenses that are coming into vogue this days. 10-20 years ago, he'd simply be switched into a SS and if he didn't make the adjustment, he's be out of the league.

Shazer was extremely productive both inside and out on the Ohio State D. Much more explosive than Mosely. He showed well in short coverage that LB's often get. And while he's athletic and fast enough to be a true coverage S, he actually hasn't done it. So that is a question mark.

More and more we see defenses going to more amorphous alignments and where match ups are king. Hybrid players like Collins can be used as real wildcards and mixed and matched on a week to week basis, and thus their value increases. Shazer fits into that equation perfectly. He can come into our defense and make an immediate impact, and never "start" a game. Mosely doesn't give you any of that.

I rest my case.

 

[mayoclinic]

More and more we see defenses going to more amorphous alignments and where match ups are king. Hybrid players like Collins can be used as real wildcards and mixed and matched on a week to week basis, and thus their value increases. Shazier fits into that equation perfectly. He can come into our defense and make an immediate impact, and never "start" a game. Mosely doesn't give you any of that.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

 

[State]

Re: Shazier vs. Mosley vs. Allen

Michigan State's Denicos Allen, an extremely productive player, has a similar skill set as Shazier without quite the speed or explosiveness.

He's just a d-mn fine player we can get at a much more reasonable spot in the draft, a la Teddy Bruschi.

 

[mmasterkillah]

Brandon Watts (Georgia Tech) ironically has many similarities as Gary Guyton. I saw him chase U of M speed WR Phil Dorsett down from behind, and he ran in the 4.4 range. He might be a late round/UDFA possibility. He's played inside/out at LB as well.

I'd be surprised if we don't go offensive or defensive line, unless something crazy happens come draft day.

I think Shazier will be very good; with the constant evolution of the passing game you need more coverage/pass rush guys ala Jamie Collins. They give you so much versatility, even with varied skill-sets.

I haven't paid enough attention to Mosley to comment accurately.

 

[Kontradiction]

I dunno. I think that the minus incurred by playing for such a talented squad is largely offset by the plus for playing Florida, LSU, Auburn, etc every year.

Florida hasn't played Alabama since 2011 and Auburn and LSU's offenses were vastly improved in 2013. That said, I would still take Shazier. More positional flexibility as he can line up at SS and LB. He has the speed and athleticism to play in space or drop down into the box and either cover RB's and TE's or shed blocks and rush the passer. The Patriots, because of the Revis acquisition, are more than likely going to be using a lot more exotic blitz packages than they have since maybe 2006. Shazier seems to be more versatile and better equippd to get them the ability to do that. That said, I wouldn't really want either of them at #29.

 

[joepatsfan]

I wouldn't take either in round one... I really like Telvin Smith in Round 2 or Christian Jones Round 4 at LB. Both can play. Mosley seems to have a little injury history and idk, lately Bama guys have been underwhelming around the league. Shazier is versatile but Smith can bring the same type to the table but with a second rounder.

 

[patchick]

I wouldn't take either in round one... I really like Telvin Smith in Round 2 or Christian Jones Round 4 at LB. Both can play. Mosley seems to have a little injury history and idk, lately Bama guys have been underwhelming around the league. Shazier is versatile but Smith can bring the same type to the table but with a second rounder.

I see a little bigger gap between Shazier and Smith than you do. I like both players, but if we call them both LB/S tweeners, Smith strikes me as the "neither fish nor fowl" kind of tweener whereas Shazier seems like a player who might legitimately do both. (A "scales & feathers" tweener?) He's a 237-pounder with the speed, burst and agility of an elite DB:

T. Smith 6'3" 218 4.52 31.5" 09'11" 4.64 7.04
R. Shazier 6'1" 237 4.38 42" 10'10" 4.21 6.91 ( better than the top safety prospects who weigh 30 lbs. less)

 

[joepatsfan]

I see a little bigger gap between Shazier and Smith than you do. I like both players, but if we call them both LB/S tweeners, Smith strikes me as the "neither fish nor fowl" kind of tweener whereas Shazier seems like a player who might legitimately do both. (A "scales & feathers" tweener?) He's a 237-pounder with the speed, burst and agility of an elite DB:

T. Smith 6'3" 218 4.52 31.5" 09'11" 4.64 7.04
R. Shazier 6'1" 237 4.38 42" 10'10" 4.21 6.91 ( better than the top safety prospects who weigh 30 lbs. less)

Well, yes Shazier is obviously the better player but I wouldn't put a first into him, at least not this draft. DE/DT/S/TE are bigger needs to fill so Telvin Smith would do. I completely understand Smith isn't at the Shazier level but still a good pick for a hybrid role imo

 

[patchick]

Well, yes Shazier is obviously the better player but I wouldn't put a first into him, at least not this draft. DE/DT/S/TE are bigger needs to fill so Telvin Smith would do. I completely understand Smith isn't at the Shazier level but still a good pick for a hybrid role imo

Fair enough, we just disagree on needs. IMO a hybrid like Shazier is a major missing piece for a lot of matchups and formations, and would help shore up the shaky depth at both LB and S. That's very high on my wish list.

The other not-insignificant issue is that unless a guy like Hageman falls, I see Shazier as a much better talent than any DE/DT/S/TE likely to be available at #29. To me, players like Crichton, Bucannon, Amaro and Ford just aren't legitimate 1st-round talents. (Fire away, all! )

 

[patfanken]

I'm with Patchick on this, at least to some degree. The more I think on just how the Pats D is being built, the more I see real value in a player like Shazier. The only question in my mind is whether (depending on who's there) you might get better value to fill that need with a KPL type later in the draft. But like Patchick stated, if BB is looking to find the "new protype" of a hybrid S/LB, Shazier has the athleticism and production that would make him a worthy first round pick.

However, in my ideal scenario one of either Hageman, Tuitt, or Jernigan would be my first choice at 29. You can't coach size. Top end big guys are just too hard to find. After that and grabbing a TE, speed is king. The more of it the better.

BTW- I don't really consider Shazier/KPL/Smith types to be true LB's. I consider them to be guys who will be manning a yet unnamed position that better fits the hypbrid LB/S that they are. But given our current LB depth there is a real need to add at least one true LB in the draft. So one of Jones or Tripp would be ideal fits in the 3rd or 4th rounds.

After the draft I think I'd like to start a thread to discuss how all the new additions will affect the defensive alignments we should expect to see this fall. I wonder if the new format will be friendlier to X's and O's discussions?

 

[Sciz]

I know people here are giving plenty of reasons to jump on the Shazier bandwagon, but I just can't do it. There are a few reasons, but I think the biggest one is relative value. Namely, if Shazier is a prospective "super sub" for the Pats and could play something like 70% of their defensive snaps without starting a game, then he's a starter and 100% snap guy for some other 4-3 defenses in the Lavonte David role, as well as possibly some 3-4 teams like the Steelers, who had a 218 pound starting ILB a few years ago. I know the draft is unpredictable and the value doesn't always fall where it should (perhaps he'll be each team's #2 available player for every pick 20-28), but I just can't get on board with the idea of outbidding these other teams that should get ~50% more value out of him.